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At 1/17/07 03:53 AM, Togukawa wrote:

Let's stop trying to understand the world, let's accept the fact that everything is as it is, and crawl back into a cave and gawk and gasp at the awesome powers of lightning and rain.

I'm not putting it on the same page, it's just that I don't really care how I was formed, be it evolution or creatonism. I have problems I have to deal with today, not what happened millions of years ago.

We should stop looking to the past and concentrating on today.

At 1/17/07 11:25 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 1/17/07 03:53 AM, Togukawa wrote:

Let's stop trying to understand the world, let's accept the fact that everything is as it is, and crawl back into a cave and gawk and gasp at the awesome powers of lightning and rain.

I'm not putting it on the same page, it's just that I don't really care how I was formed, be it evolution or creatonism. I have problems I have to deal with today, not what happened millions of years ago.

We should stop looking to the past and concentrating on today.

Well, I agree only partially. The answers to these questions affect our world view a lot. When you believe in a created earth, you'll have different stances (or at least different reasons for the stance) on the preservation of endangered species and things like abortion, than if you believe in an everchanging dynamic world.

That said, my problem is with the government putting science and religion on the same page on physical issues like geology.

Secondly, an understanding of the past is quite important if we are to understand the present. History (or merely historians? :p) has a habit of repeating itself. And knowledge over a long period of time allows for better extrapolations of the future, than if you only have knowledge about a very limited era.

So yes, the past is important, if only to give us a better understanding of present and future.

At 1/17/07 03:19 PM, Togukawa wrote:

At 1/17/07 11:25 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 1/17/07 03:53 AM, Togukawa wrote:

So yes, the past is important, if only to give us a better understanding of present and future.

Why, when man just ignores the past due to being blind by his own goals.

At 1/17/07 03:25 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 1/17/07 03:19 PM, Togukawa wrote: So yes, the past is important, if only to give us a better understanding of present and future.

Why, when man just ignores the past due to being blind by his own goals.

You contend that the past is not important and that all that matters is today, and then you use the argument "well man just ignores the past because he's too focused on today"?

If that isn't irony, then I don't know what is. :D

At 1/17/07 04:04 PM, Togukawa wrote:

At 1/17/07 03:25 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 1/17/07 03:19 PM, Togukawa wrote:

If that isn't irony, then I don't know what is. :D

Then you don't know what it is.

At 1/17/07 11:25 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: We should stop looking to the past and concentrating on today.

You seem to conveniently forget that everything that goes on today is a result of the past.

Not knowing about the past makes the present and the future meaningless and un-predictable. Now, I do not claim that we can predict the future, but why do most of the things we do happen? Because we had an experience like it in the past and we want to recreate, or avoid the same experience.

This argument is bunk. All you are doing is trying to defend yourself by claiming the issue is nothing.

At 1/17/07 04:55 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 1/17/07 11:25 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

You seem to conveniently forget that everything that goes on today is a result of the past.

Tell me, how does knowing what years we evolved in help us solve the problem in Iraq.

While I'm not saying the immidiate or even within a couple hundreds years doesn't help us. Knowing what happened thousands or millions of years ago is largely uninfluential in modern reality.

Not knowing about the past makes the present and the future meaningless and un-predictable. Now, I do not claim that we can predict the future, but why do most of the things we do happen? Because we had an experience like it in the past and we want to recreate, or avoid the same experience.

You seem to not think that the future is meaningless or unpredicatable. The only thing that can be predicated in any amount of time is that man is a cruel, brutish beast.

This argument is bunk. All you are doing is trying to defend yourself by claiming the issue is nothing.

Apparently you replaced my entire views against the usefullness of creation with the usefullness of history as well.

Great job.

At 1/17/07 05:03 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 1/17/07 04:55 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 1/17/07 11:25 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

You seem to conveniently forget that everything that goes on today is a result of the past.

Tell me, how does knowing what years we evolved in help us solve the problem in Iraq.

Wouldn't be able to hold onto the guns without opposable thumbs.

At 1/17/07 05:17 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 1/17/07 05:03 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 1/17/07 04:55 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 1/17/07 11:25 AM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

Wouldn't be able to hold onto the guns without opposable thumbs.

Still doesn't answer my question.

I asked, how does knowing what years we evolved help us in Iraq.

We already have thumbs, not knowing when we elvoved with them won't make them disapeer. There always going to be there.

Maybe I'm just simply not interested or care how we were created.

My body's fond of me right now. I've finally worked my biceps up to 18 inches. I think I'll celibrate with something unhealthy

At 1/17/07 05:27 PM, stafffighter wrote: My body's fond of me right now. I've finally worked my biceps up to 18 inches. I think I'll celibrate with something unhealthy

Thought I was posting in the lounge, my bad.

As for this topic, understanding where we come from defines where we'll go

At 1/17/07 05:29 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 1/17/07 05:27 PM, stafffighter wrote:

As for this topic, understanding where we come from defines where we'll go

We've been going for centureis without understanding where we came from.

And it's partly gotten worse.

At 1/17/07 05:47 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

We've been going for centureis without understanding where we came from.

And it's partly gotten worse.

And the largest killers have always come from a lack of scientific understanding. Medical science is only one of the more glaring examples of the positive affects of understanding ourselves and nature.

At 1/17/07 05:22 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:
I asked, how does knowing what years we evolved help us in Iraq.

You're right, it doesn't. However, a good understanding of the story of human evolution gives one an excellent understanding of humanity, why it does some of the strange things it does, and how we came to be. Evolution isn't just physical, you know- it's mostly mental. Most human physical evolution was merely movement of bone to make our hands less like our feet, give us bigger skulls, make us larger, and stand more upright, along with some minor alterations in musculature to allow for certain tasks, like speech. Human mental evolution gave us things like abstract thought, a sense of something outside ourselves, and really the things that make us human.

In reality, our needs aren't much different than that of our ancient ancestors. A place to sleep, food to eat and water to drink, companionship, something to keep us warm, safe, and alive. Everything else is a want. Art and speech evolved from a want to express an idea. Understand what makes us human, and you have a great basis for understanding humanity.

On another note, it's vital to know the past. Santayana once said, "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." We see evidence of this between World War I and World War II, the Civil War and Jim Crow America, and post-WWI and the modern Middle East. It's like driving somewhere a long distance away. If you don't have a map, and have never driven there before, how the hell do you know where you're going, and if you're going the right way?

I'm just going to ignore all the arguing that has built up in this post and state what I think on the original post.

I saw some interview once where this crack head old guy claimed that he used to believe the geologists about the grand canyon, but after spending many years there on water rafting tours, he came to the conclusion that god did it in 500 years or something crazy like that.

If there really is a heaven, I hope I don't have to share it with this dumb ass.

And tokugawa makes excellent points about the importance of rational thinking, like always.

It still really amazes me that there are people who refute all these known geological facts. It almost seems like people were more accepting of what science said a hundred years ago then they are now.

i really dont get why people even care

At 1/17/07 08:30 PM, TheDarkOne287 wrote: i really dont get why people even care

Because the same jackasses that say science sucks and is all a bunch of crazy lies and untruthful speculation, seem to have no problem indulging in all the modern marvels science and engineering has provided them.

It's like Joe Christiandude saying, "science shouldn't be taken seriously because it doesn't support creationism and noah's ark. Well now to go buy that xbox 360 and play some gears of war on my new high definition tv."

Lets see how many retards i can offened with this following sentence: God is non-existent. And according to most of you posters, hes a big fat white man with a jolly beard. So according to your religion, godd is santa claus.

all fat bearded white people look the same now?

i've never seen anyone depict god as fat; hes always super built with his white beard of righteous power.

At 1/17/07 05:47 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 1/17/07 05:29 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 1/17/07 05:27 PM, stafffighter wrote:

As for this topic, understanding where we come from defines where we'll go

We've been going for centureis without understanding where we came from.

And it's partly gotten worse.

But we've ALWAYS made up theories and myths to explain where we came from. Every culture in every age. Just google creation myths and be amazed.

It's part of human nature. Knowing where we came from puts our existence into perspective, gives us some reference.

As staffighter said, it even defines where we'll go.

Put yourself in the place of a lowly peasant in medieval times, during the bubonic plague. Knowing that big epidemies like that have occured thousands of times before in human history, that we're just yet another lifeform on this earth, will give you a COMPLETELY different outlook on life than the vision of "we're made by God, and last time we pissed him off He drowned the entire world and started over". In the first case you'll try to make the best of it, in the latter a sense of hopelessness will prevail, as evidenced by the art of that time period.

The outbreak of SARS and AIDS certainly doesn't leave our society reeling with a profound sense of hopelessness. We know that things like that have happened before, that we've survived it before, and that we'll survive it again. Our actions and outlook on life on this day are very much affected by the the knowledge of the past and our vision on the world.

liberals vs conservatives.
democrats vs republicans.

its all the same.

people act as if its like the union vs the confederacy.

you both are on the same side.

democrats and republicans, liberals and conservatives.
they are both the same shit, the only diffrence is the smell.

At 1/18/07 05:11 AM, Togukawa wrote:

At 1/17/07 05:47 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 1/17/07 05:29 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 1/17/07 05:27 PM, stafffighter wrote:

It's part of human nature. Knowing where we came from puts our existence into perspective, gives us some reference.

It probally does for some people, just not really me.

Look, I believe in God, I believe that we were created, be it from creation or evolution doesn't interest me. The fact that I was created is good enough for me.

Just thought I'd revive this, because apparently the claims were shown to be false.

If anything I'm glad.