The Universe

[Ben]

If the universe is infinite, then if the time before the creation of the universe was infinite, surely it is only logicical, that in an infinite amount of time everything possible in that environment would have happened. That would mean that the creation of our universe is simply one of those infinite events.

This would mean that anything could have created our universe, not necessarily negating the chance that a "God" created it, but there is still a chance (obviously some fraction of infitity) that it could have happened. This could mean god is anything - simply a reaction, an outcome, a higher being, a giant koala bear, some kind of eel, a panda, chuck norris, the juggernaut, you, or some old man with a beard.

That means that any religion or any point of view on our existance could be a possibility, meaning that everyone hasroughly the same chance of being right. We need to respect each others ideas on the reasons, instead of fighting to prove ourselves right. It is pointless to argue over our beliefs - we should embrace each others and accept their ideas for what they are - simply each of our own faiths.

[SenorPresidente]

yes the universe has an end

has no idea

[Ben]

At 1/2/07 09:36 PM, Shawtey wrote: no its not infinite its like 80 billion light years across

FAIL

Prove it. If we are to believe the top physists it is expanding infinitely - their is everychance that it couldbe any size - therefore there's an infinite distance between any point, anyone can estimate.

[Expectrum]

We should, but sadly, we won´t.

[3tard]

There was no "time" b4 the big bang according to our modern creation theory. The Big Bang created the very fabric of the universe known as 'space-time'. Before the Big Bang, there wa absolutely nothing. There was no vacuumous void, no elapsed time "before creation". Sorry.

[Flatland]

At 1/2/07 09:37 PM, SenorPresidente wrote: yes the universe has an end

has no idea

We don't really know that, do we? Of course you have no idea. xD

I doubt anyone has reached the end of the universe yet.

Though, there probably is an end, and it's seemingly endless.

[Jakspeed]

At 1/2/07 09:36 PM, Shawtey wrote: no its not infinite its like 80 billion light years across

FAIL

no.

I've often wondered about this. Is it really possible for the universe to be infinite? Well, of course it is, since there simply can NOT be "no space". Know what I mean? Say the universe had some "end" to it, like a wall, well, what would be on the other side of the wall? There would have to be something there, or else there'd be no point in the wall.

So in essence, the universe must be infinite.

[Earfetish]

Well, it is all theoretical, but indeed, one of the theories is that there was nothing for infinity, even though there was no time or space, and since over the course of infinity anything can happen, it just happened to explode and create a universe.

[Seasons]

Yeah, i know. Unfortunately, most others don't.

[UltimateAxl]

Yes, the Universe is a big place.

[Vrael]

At 1/2/07 09:40 PM, 3tard wrote: There was no "time" b4 the big bang according to our modern creation theory. The Big Bang created the very fabric of the universe known as 'space-time'. Before the Big Bang, there wa absolutely nothing. There was no vacuumous void, no elapsed time "before creation". Sorry.

there had to have been something due to the Law of the Conservation of Mass. You cannot create or destroy matter that was already their through process's

sorry sir you fail

besides you can't take nothing and have something it's illogical

btw Ben words do not describe how lol your post is if god was a panda i would laugh soo hard

[Ben]

At 1/2/07 09:40 PM, Shawtey wrote:
look here fucker!

ok so i was wrong on the distnace... but its not infinite

That's compltely based on assumptions made by our limited scientific knowledge.

[Mr-Pope]

There could be a land full of Pokemon out there!

[Earfetish]

At 1/2/07 09:43 PM, Shawtey wrote: no space is the absence of matter so yes SPACE goes on for ever the universe is a collection of dust... and it does not go on forever ... the universe is not infinite

They don't know whether space is infinite. They don't really know what the universe is expanding into - perhaps it's some crazy 4-dimensional sphere that leads back in on the other side, perhaps there is nothing where it expands into and it creates the space, who the fuck knows.

It is possible that there was the nothing before the Big Bang for infinity, although it's hard to explain all that shit because there was no time before the Big Bang. Although they're starting to say there was a beforehand. Even though there was no time.

[Jakspeed]

no space is the absence of matter so yes SPACE goes on for ever the universe is a collection of dust... and it does not go on forever ... the universe is not infinite

See I belive the universe to be everything, seeing as universal means "to include everything". I don't see why they would call something the universe if it doesn't include all of space.

[Ben]

At 1/2/07 09:45 PM, Mr-Pope wrote: There could be a land full of Pokemon out there!

Better yet - the universe could have been created by pokemon!

[Jakspeed]

its just as crazy as the concept of god... so why do most atheists talk down to people who believe any sort of religion

No idea, I honestly believe that the chances of us having a God are greater than the chances of the Big Bang actually happening, and I am not at all a religious man, nor do I believe in God.

I think the Big Bang is probably the lamest theory that scientists have ever come out with. It just does NOT make sence. At all.

And I'll kick your ass if you argue with me. Nahh just playin

[PirateKirby]

Unfortunately, it is human nature to be self-centered and concieted. We will always feel that we are the smarter than the people around us, and constantly trying to find ways in how the other people are not right.

We always spend most of the time after making a decision rationalizing it. Most of the time, we do things without truly thinking about them. therefore, we always spend time after doing, thinking.

Peace can never exist on earth because of the human nature of self-beliving and to always feel better than those around us. We will always disagree. We will always kill each other with guns and weapons of mass destruction. We will always annialate each other untill one falls from their mistakes. And the propaganda of the victor will become the history of the loser.

And that is how the gears of humanity turn...

[CleansingFlame]

Woah.....

Someone smart is actually on NG.

Too bad he's gonna get flamed for it.

[Leeloo-Minai]

I think Elfer's comment about time needs a little more attention.

Time is merely a measurement of change, if the universe were a static element, time would have no substance, especially in the absence of a free-willed observer (the pinnacle of change).

[Xurch]

At 1/2/07 09:36 PM, Shawtey wrote: no its not infinite its like 80 billion light years across

FAIL

Then how does it end, a wall :P?

[AngryFaic]

The is a difference between the universe and space.

The universe is in space. It occupies the space. You can go on forever until there are no more stars, or even any matter, and space will continue.

[AdamRice]

At 1/2/07 09:47 PM, Shawtey wrote: whats more crazy the idea of a super being who created the universe or the idea that it just "appeared" because it can

hey john... why is there 2 naked women in your bed?...

well honey they just "appeared" just like the universe

its just as crazy as the concept of god... so why do most atheists talk down to people who believe any sort of religion

Because most religions are stupid uses of fear tactics to gain followers and quite frankly, religion creates more problems then it solves.

[Ben]

People seem to be under the impression that we have any idea where it all came from. Scientists have no idea or have any ideas which are more than VERY rough theories based upon our assumptions. They have just as much chance in our current state of finding the secrets of our universe as a iman, a priest or a rabbi - let alone hippies, you average man or a child - anyone, or anything capable of conscious thought.

[Ben]

At 1/2/07 10:04 PM, fasdit wrote:

At 1/2/07 09:47 PM, Shawtey wrote:

Because most religions are stupid uses of fear tactics to gain followers and quite frankly, religion creates more problems then it solves.

This has nothing to do with religion - it is all about our faith and beliefs. Religions are simply people with similair ideas grouped together. The whole thing about organised religion is that they use people's beliefs to their advantage, and even force their beliefs on others. I could rant about how much I hate religion for a long time... but I don't blieve that belongs in this thread.

[Earfetish]

At 1/2/07 10:06 PM, Ben wrote: They have just as much chance in our current state of finding the secrets of our universe as a iman, a priest or a rabbi - let alone hippies, you average man or a child - anyone, or anything capable of conscious thought.

That's bullshit and you know it. Scientists are finding out evidence that points to the origins of the universe and rabbis are reading scripture. If all scientists had your mindset we'd have gotten nowhere.

[Earfetish]

Anyway, if anyone's interested in reading a response from someone who has researched into this, who studies it for his minor at uni, who has read a couple of books that go into detail about this - Bill Bryson and Richard Dawkins and stuff - and who seems more knowlegable about thsi subject than anyone who has posted so far, then check out mine thanks.

[Jakspeed]

I still do not agree with the Universe Vs. Space thing. If space is THERE, and whether or not it is "nothing" (which something can't be or it does not exist), then space is part of the universe. Space is the are outside of this "universe", so it is in fact something. So it has to be part of the universe. Everything is part of the universe. You can't just say that the area with no matter in it is nothing, because it is still area and is there.

[Lagatag]

The universe is not neccesarily infinite though, and therefore neither is time. If our universe is the only one, time as we know it has a definite starting point, and possibly has a definite ending point.

[akusamurai23]

amen brothuh, amen.

perhaps god is everything, not just one thing?