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many people confuse ADD with stupidity

Keep it clean, kids, or I'll put you on ritalin.

Ah the Prozac nation rears its ugly head again. Now to be fair, some kids do need ritalin and others kinds of drugs but i think the problem we need to address is the over-weight problem in todays youth

jimsween:

I appreciate what you have to offer here. But please do NOT make the same mistake you did with this post again. It was glaringly misinformed, and I'll share why.

At 4/13/03 02:42 PM, jimsween wrote:
Chemical inbalances can ALWAYS be dealt with without medication.

This is so very very wrong, it's sad. If there's a chemical imbalance in one's brain, then it will most likely need some sort of medication to get it back where it should be.

Think of it this way, Jim. People with a pancreas that doesn't work correctly end up with a chemical imbalance in their body that makes them very sick. It's called diabetes. When the pancreas doesn't make enough insulin, it requires that the diabetic patient take insulin suplements daily for the rest of their lives.

That is a chemical imbalance that cannot be dealt with without medication. Some can be, yes, depending on the severity. It's very similar with chemical imbalances in the brain. I'm not sure why so many people think it's so very different from the rest of the human organs. Some imbalances can be dealt with by adjustment. Other times...medication is inevitable.

The body makes it's own chamicals and the amount of those chemicals that are made depends on your surrounding environment, severe stress can cause an absece of ceratonin, enorphins, and dopamine.

This is misleading.

Chemical imbalance means just that. A chemical misfire in the brain. An imbalance. How much seratonin or the rest is produced is likely linked to environmental issues...but what we're talking about here is something that causes the seratonin to either stop working, or stop being produced. It is NOT always linked to situations. It's sometimes something that one cannot control.

If you have loving parents and a reasonably stable life than your body wont have much of these "chemical inbalances".

Please tell me, Jim...do you honestly believe that?

It's simply not true. I don't think I have to explain why.

I'm going to psychobabble here, and explain something about seratonin, in a way that my psychiatrist explained it.

There's two types of depression: chemically induced, and situational. Chemical imbalances are likely the cause for it all, but the differences are...with chemical depression, it's a literal disease of the brain, where there's something just not working right. Like the previously before explained pancreas and it's responsibility for insulin.

Chemical imbalances that are due to true malfunctions of the brain are rather rare. These are the people that will be on medication for the rest of their lives.

Situational is just that...but it's so, so broad. It doesn't have to have anything to do with home or social life. It could be a breakup, or simply the thought errors one has. I could write a thesis on this, actually...but I won't. This type of depression, though, is what most people have. Almost ALL people, actually.

I was going to explain seratonin reuptake inhibitors, but I won't. Suffice it to say that it isn't always necessary to have medication prescribed, but it -is- sometimes necessary.

To evilkate! *lol* Sorry this is so long.

They had me on all SORTS of medication, but the one that got me was Depakote, a med that's used for two things: anti-convulsion (for epileptics) and a mood stabilizer (that's what I was taking it for, since i was diagnosed as being bipolar). I was also on trazodone, klonopin, zoloft, and risperdal. My psych was VERY good, he was amazing...and he supported me though taking myself off the medication.

I've been great now, and I need no help whatsoever, other than a bi-yearly session with my therapist, just to check in. I chalk it up to learning to correct my thought errors, and spirituality.

At 4/14/03 01:37 AM, Evanauto wrote:

Keep it clean, kids, or I'll put you on ritalin.

Ah the Prozac nation rears its ugly head again. Now to be fair, some kids do need ritalin and others kinds of drugs but i think the problem we need to address is the over-weight problem in todays youth

The government and parents in general have just become so dependent on the fact that science must yield the solutions to everything that they've given up on the way of parenting that's worked for - dare I say - centuries. When my grandfather was 16, he ran away to Texas from Illinois. His father tracked him down and sucker-punched him right in the jaw.

Granted, that had nothing to do with what I was saying, but I just learned this story and felt the need to share it with everyone.

My mother was a fan of dragging me to therapy. I remember having the first thoughts of suicide when I was 10. Honestly, what kid has problems so bad that suicide sounds like a good idea? No problems at all, my mom said. I was only acting like that to hurt her. Then when I turned into a teenager and "back-talked" - something must be wrong with my. Coming out as bi when I was 14 - dragged to therapy. Conflicting feelings, massive mood swings, anger, depression, suicidal thoughts... My mother's plan consisted of sheltering me and therapy, but she always stayed in the room.

I'm not saying that she was a bad mother... far from it. She thought she was doing good, and I know (now that I'm older) that she was only doing what she thought was right. She probably was following a pattern established from my grandmother, possibly further back.

Her thoughts were geared to my "mental problems" and getting me into good therapy. Sometimes it works, but I wished she would have allowed me some breathing room and some personal space (I wasn't allowed a lock on my bedroom door - even when I moved back home for a year when I was 22, she came in without knocking).

I think medication can be beneficial, but it needs to be administered properly and not as a cure-all. I suffered horribly from post-traumatic stress disorder after a sexual assualt, and the nurses at the hospital brought me two little cups, one with water, one with pills. I wanted to know what they were. She said, "They'll help you feel better" and patted my shoulder. Come on! People with problems are not stupic.

I think problems arise when a quick fix is given. More time is needed to ensure that each kid and teen gets a proper diagnosis. Spending the time early on to figure out exactly what the "problem" is can definitely save a lot of grief and agrivation later on.

Lucky, lucky me! I'm going to another counsellor on wednesday! Go me!
Ugh......

At 4/14/03 03:54 AM, House_Of_Leaves wrote:

This is so very very wrong, it's sad. If there's a chemical imbalance in one's brain, then it will most likely need some sort of medication to get it back where it should be.

Not neccesarily, if this were so then there would be no need for therapists. Every time a person gets depression there is a trigger, something very emotional or a series of emotional events. If theses are eliminated the depression usually goes away.

Think of it this way, Jim. People with a pancreas that doesn't work correctly end up with a chemical imbalance in their body that makes them very sick. It's called diabetes. When the pancreas doesn't make enough insulin, it requires that the diabetic patient take insulin suplements daily for the rest of their lives.

That is a chemical imbalance that cannot be dealt with without medication. Some can be, yes, depending on the severity. It's very similar with chemical imbalances in the brain. I'm not sure why so many people think it's so very different from the rest of the human organs. Some imbalances can be dealt with by adjustment. Other times...medication is inevitable.

You took me way to seriously, It's quite obvious that I meant when it comes to the brain. That is what the topic is about.

The body makes it's own chemicals and the amount of those chemicals that are made depends on your surrounding environment, severe stress can cause an absece of ceratonin, enorphins, and dopamine.

This is misleading.

Chemical imbalance means just that. A chemical misfire in the brain. An imbalance. How much seratonin or the rest is produced is likely linked to environmental issues...but what we're talking about here is something that causes the seratonin to either stop working, or stop being produced. It is NOT always linked to situations. It's sometimes something that one cannot control.

Like I said before there is always a trigger to depression, if you eliminate that trigger then there will be no more inbalance, it is possible to do it without medication.

Please tell me, Jim...do you honestly believe that?

My phsyciatrist seems to

It's simply not true. I don't think I have to explain why.

I'm going to psychobabble here, and explain something about seratonin, in a way that my psychiatrist explained it.

There's two types of depression: chemically induced, and situational. Chemical imbalances are likely the cause for it all, but the differences are...with chemical depression, it's a literal disease of the brain, where there's something just not working right. Like the previously before explained pancreas and it's responsibility for insulin.

Chemical imbalances that are due to true malfunctions of the brain are rather rare. These are the people that will be on medication for the rest of their lives.

I probably shouldnt have said always because there is a chance that you could get hit in the head or something like that. But I did say most of the inbalances.

Situational is just that...but it's so, so broad. It doesn't have to have anything to do with home or social life. It could be a breakup, or simply the thought errors one has. I could write a thesis on this, actually...but I won't. This type of depression, though, is what most people have. Almost ALL people, actually.

That is why I siad STABLE life.

I was going to explain seratonin reuptake inhibitors, but I won't. Suffice it to say that it isn't always necessary to have medication prescribed, but it -is- sometimes necessary.

Sometimes in the rare extremities but those would hardly make up the large portion of people on medication.

Are we all insane in here? It would be a comforting thought to know I'm not the only one dictating this over a microphone to a typist while I'm locked in my chamber in a mental institution.

We give out far to much medication, not enough information concerning how to parent, and we all but ignore anyone that tries to tell us the proper way to deal with kids. "Like soandso knows anything" attitudes prevade most of American teens, and it's just sicking.

I think modern parenting has gotten lax over the past years. Parents tend to lean to one of two extremes, over-discipline, or under-discipline. For instance, there's the parent who lets his or her child throw a fit on the field after losing a soccer game. "He's just expressing himself". No..... He's acting immature and needs to be corrected. Try and pitch a fit when you don't get a raise and see what happens. On the pther end of the spectrum, there's those who over-discipline. For instance, my mom. She's the parent, she's always right, there's never any cause to ask questions, no matter how reasonably you bring it to her. I say "I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't understand why..." and kids shouldn't have to approach their parents so carefully and formally about it. It should just be "Mom, why is it that..." and let that be that. If the children who are under-disciplined don't realize what is happening to them, they're in for a rude awakening when reality hits. Those who are over-disciplined, if they don't realize it, they'll pass it on to their kids as well.

On the issue of medication, some things can be too quickly diagnosed. For instance, a kid who can't sit still in church may not need drugs. Just spank him and let him know he doesn't need to be doing what he's doing. Other times, a kid may have problems out of his control. Give him medication and let him sit in the floor and color or something. PArents have to be flexible and understanding. Hell, people in general need to be that way. But I hope by the time I have children, I'll be wise enought to raise them to be mature, responsible, and wise adults.

I don't want my kids to go through a lot of the crap I've had to deal with as a younger kid. Jeez, it got so bad, that I started to get a patch of grey hair on my head in SEVENTH GRADE. I don't really think that any parent wants their kid to go through crap in life, but a lot of them don't know how, because they weren't taught, and they haven't figured it out yet for themselves.

If people could learn how to communicate better, than parents wouldn't have to send their kids to psychiatrists and counselors. The parents could find out the problem on their own (unless it is medical related) and just apply good reason to it. I think it'd solve a lot of the problems.

Some of you are right about one thing and wrong about another. Here's what I think is right. 1. No Drugs unless they honestly need them. Not if they like horseplaying with their friends at the park. 2. No hitting, period. You see, if you talk to them and TEACH them what's wrong, then they will do what's right and never need be hit. Unfortunetly, what we see today is parent's never spending enough time with their kids, and hitting them whenever they do something wrong in the later ages. Why do they do things wrong? Because it has not been taught to them that it's wrong. Or, some other parents, that don't even have time to hit the kid, gives him pills. I myself am a student in Psychology, believe it or not, and frankly, if you just teach them, you'll never have to hit them or give them pills. It's that simple. Unfortunetly most parents are basically the fat-billy-bob-corndog eating type that hit their kids. And the kind that give them pills are the kind that is a CEO of some company, or likes just going places and leaving the kid at school or with friends.
No offense to people that do the above and aren't billy bob or a CEO, but please, try to get my picture.

Oh yeah, and, the guy who said chemical imbalances aren't caused by stress or group/society ways obviously has never read one psychology book.
Absence of dopamine, etc, can SOMETIMES occur due to genetic problems, but usually it's from high stress, problems at home in the extreme, or guess what, abuse.
And as for pills, all they honestly do is cause more problems. Ask any psychologist, and they will say that on almost every pill that deals with mental problems can have more harmful side-effects, than the original problem itself. Such as these pills being given to children alters their brain chemistry and can cause psycho-addiction/dependency. These pills have not gone through enough researching, and most psychologists are eager to slap on a prescription to the patient rather than see the problem and try to deal with it with therapy. It's like this. Consider these kids being given these pills that honestly don't need them, kids being given radiation that don't have cancer. See my point?

At 4/15/03 01:23 AM, Darkahn wrote: I myself am a student in Psychology, believe it or not, and frankly...

im not a psychology major, and ive only had one class, but there are a few things i remember. when cildren are developing, they go through stages of learning (wow, i paid tuition to learn that?), one theory on character development is Kholberg's stage theory. in it there are 3 stages of moral reasoning... the preconventional, conventional, and postconventional. in the peconventional stage (which is up to around 8 years), decisions are made on the basis of 'will i be punished or not?' i feel that this is the most important stage of development as far as learning goes. why? because children are impressionable. when i was little (ok, even now...hahaha) i was terrified by my mother because she was a disciplinarian. as a child, i was spanked and THEN explained to why. you cannot just talk to (young) children, they cannot grasp the abstract principles that affect adult moral beliefs... its like a computer nerd trying to explain how binary code works to a construction worker, its a different language. physical punishment should be encouraged, i know i hated it, but i like who i have become, and i attribute some of my personality to the fact that i was punished in such a way.

i am not a parent, and i dont intend to be one for quite some time. i know im not mature enough yet, but i have had some thoughts on how i would raise my children. i would try everything in my power to avoid using chemical will-benders on my children. i want them to be theirselves, but they will begin to learn their limits the first time they act up. will i spak my children? assuredly. will they like it? no. will they think me for doing it eventually? definitely.

I am surprised, but frankly, many theories are wrong. Will I be punished or not is usually a stage later in life. You can tell them it's wrong, and if it continues take away extra fun things. I was hit later in life and that caused major effects, but before I was 12 I was simply told it was wrong, or sometimes fun things were taken away. Grounding didn't do squat for me though, I think that the person who invented it didn't have kids, heh.

i was hit... until i was like 8, then they took stuff from me... like my tv and video games... or try to ground me... but im one of those kids that even by myself i can still have fun, and i drove my parents nuts when i was stuck inside the house they basically rescinded all punishments just to get me the fuck out of the house...

but i knew everything i was doing and i knew it was wrong... i jsut didnt care...

and i am quite the normal behavioral person...

also am i the only one that DOESNT take pills or see a therapist?

At 4/16/03 12:53 AM, karasz wrote: i was hit... until i was like 8, then they took stuff from me... like my tv and video games... or try to ground me... but im one of those kids that even by myself i can still have fun, and i drove my parents nuts when i was stuck inside the house they basically rescinded all punishments just to get me the fuck out of the house...

but i knew everything i was doing and i knew it was wrong... i jsut didnt care...

and i am quite the normal behavioral person...

also am i the only one that DOESNT take pills or see a therapist?

No. Besides, I got spanked as a little kid, and came up just fine. Whoever the hell originally said that kids learn violence when they get spanked anyways?

At 4/16/03 12:53 AM, karasz wrote: also am i the only one that DOESNT take pills or see a therapist?

Nope. I don't. As I'm still growing up and maturing (*cough*) I have the most recent experience. I'd say that the best thing my parents have done is let me make my own mistakes. They've always supported me, but when I fuck up, I learn from my fuck-ups.

My dad never really disciplined me, because I don't do a lot of stuff wrong. I abide by the rules and he sets very loose ones. If im going to a concert and it ends at 11pm, he wont say I have to leave early and he wont complain if/when I'm out of the Roadmender (My Local Club) by 11:20 slightly smashed.

If your child makes his own mistakes, he learns from them, and I have. The very loose boundaries have allowed me to go out and have fun, whilst keeping up my schoolwork. I reckon thats good parenting.

That's the best way, bumcheek. Same way I was raised.
But somewhere along there, my brain exploded.
Well, not quite, but now I'm trying a SI or two.

I seem to remember being grounded all the time for really really stupid crap, between the ages of 12 and 18. Yes, my parents actually grounded me when I was 18. I was home on winter break during my freshman year of college. I'd gotten terribly sick New Year's Eve (I found out later someone spiked my drink with some kind of drug) and my boyfriend and his friend didn't want to leave me alone, and my parents were still out. So they tucked me in on the couch with lots of blankets (I was so cold I was shivering while passed out) and they fell asleep on the loveseat and chair. My dad completely flipped when he saw them, and my parents made me go to my grandmother's house, because she was babysitting my brother. My mother told my grandmother not to let my boyfriend drive up.

!!!

She tried grounding me again when I was 19, but I wouldn't have it. We yelled and screamed at each other for a while.

My dad hit me once when I was 16 (the spankings stopped when I was 3 or so). I was severly depressed at the time, and in therapy. I was fighting with my mother when she said "I hate you with every fiber of my being" to which I replied "and you wonder why I'm suicidal." My mom called me a little bitch, and my dad punched me in the face. My nose bled. I told my therapist about it the next day, the school wanted to call the police, but the guidance conselor told them I was exagerating. She said my dad probably slapped me to "calm me down" because I was a "problem child."

Yarg.

At 4/16/03 02:59 AM, bumcheekcity wrote: I'd say that the best thing my parents have done is let me make my own mistakes. They've always supported me, but when I fuck up, I learn from my fuck-ups.

I wish my parents would have let me learn from my mistakes. I wish they would have let me make them. Even now, I've very indecisive because I worry about the results. I don't want my mother to tell me what to do, so I ignore her advice (teenage rebellion never ends!) and fail to make a decision.

I find it odd how most of the people who were lightly smacked around as kids and generally disciplined diplomatically later in life have come to the Political Forum and want to be world leaders. We need to use diplomacy in child raising. Maybe then we'd have less George Bush types.

At 4/16/03 10:51 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: I find it odd how most of the people who were lightly smacked around as kids and generally disciplined diplomatically later in life have come to the Political Forum and want to be world leaders. We need to use diplomacy in child raising. Maybe then we'd have less George Bush types.

Hopefully. *Crosses Fingers* Its not like I wasnt disciplined at all and if I'm really honest the only reason my parents never grounded me is because they tried once and i went out without telling them. Before I went out, gave them a time, got back by it and no problems arose. It was/is a trust thing. Its the trust that is the most important between parent/child, i reckon.

At 4/16/03 12:28 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: It was/is a trust thing. Its the trust that is the most important between parent/child, i reckon.

My parents never trusted me, and I think the major problems arose from there.

I think that kids need privacy, and if they want privacy it doesn't mean they are doing something wrong. I mean, how many kids just want to lock the door and slip on the headphones just so no one bothers them and they get a little bit of personal space?

Modern parenting is a complete disaster : Most parents nowadays have the attitude of letting the child do anything he wants, lets call it the spoiled brat syndrom. This is more and more frequent, much like many other movements, the no-violence-parenting movement has gone to far : Dont get me wrong, I'm against actually hitting childrens, but you have to give the child some discipline or else their is nothing between him and the realization that his parents cannot do anything to harm him, they can just disobey has much has they after all " what are my parents gonna do, call the police ?".

Parents have to be strict while the kid is young, so that he doesnt grow to be an anarchist or a criminal. Of course, the "spoiled brat concept" is hardly applicable to the poorest families. I still think young parents should not be too soft, or else the kid will think they're allowed to do anything. Sometimes though, the "I can do anything" can be just a phase let's just hope it's so for all those childrens.

Has for the drug use in parenting, it has been proven by many psychiatrists that Ritalin and the like is just retarding the problem, it represses it, making unstable adults.

I'm really kind of lost on this issue. I'm not confused, but I can't seem to see any solution.
A child needs discipline, but.... I just don't know.

At 4/16/03 09:00 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: I'm really kind of lost on this issue. I'm not confused, but I can't seem to see any solution.
A child needs discipline, but.... I just don't know.

A child needs discipline, but trust and love is/are important. You cant discipline a child and expect him/her to follow your riles by fear.

At 4/19/03 11:24 AM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 4/16/03 09:00 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: I'm really kind of lost on this issue. I'm not confused, but I can't seem to see any solution.
A child needs discipline, but.... I just don't know.

A child needs discipline, but trust and love is/are important. You cant discipline a child and expect him/her to follow your riles by fear.

Loving your child, but giving him a decent yelling once in awhile, works far better for controlling him or her than any medication ever created.

Hear, hear Judge.

At 4/19/03 10:16 PM, UNpossible wrote: Hear, hear Judge.

There we go. And to think at one time I was labeled insane for saying that very same thing.

INSANE