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At 12/20/06 04:34 PM, Denta wrote: Why is Communism bad?

Mabe because it killed over 80 million people ? Because it used a great ideal to create a totalitarian state ? Because it was the most hypocrit kind of government ?

much like scientology,communism is very pointless,I even know some kook who is round about communism if you know what i mean

At 12/20/06 04:34 PM, Denta wrote: Why is Communism bad?

Because it sells itself cheap to capitalism.

Just like China sells itself to the USA. Communism is slave labor, the natives get paid a few cents at most for a product, and some capitalist make millions in the other side of the world with it.

Need more examples? Venezuela (which has this ultra-leftist speech and such), sells its oil to the USA with even greater benefits than any previous government did. In fact Venezuela is giving oil concessions to the USA.

Cuba? It sells itself cheap to the European tourists, who literally "enjoy" the cuban slaves.

That is why Communism is bad. I am against Communism because I don't want to be the slave of some Capitalist.

At 12/20/06 04:34 PM, Denta wrote: Why is Communism bad?

because you cant change the dictator. and that dictator will have all the power and will become greedy and capitalistic at heart, trying to force a system on the masses that they themselves sought to profit from

At 12/25/06 06:41 PM, Dalaran2007 wrote:

Good point. Commmunism itslef works well in small groups, but when it comes tothe country level, itthe leader has to be capitalsit to compete in the world.

What I'd like to know is why It's "commies" are labeled evil. I mean, yes we understand that it didn't work and was flawed (or at least, we are) Why are patriots of USA so anti-communism in particular?
(Forgive me for my ignorance)

Communism is the ideal form of goverment. It is a goverment in which everyone is a middle class citizen. It gives each person equal rights, benifits, and property. If every conuntry in the world was communist, we would have a perfect goverment. But, that's only if you achive perfect communism. Most goverments who say they are "coummunist" are really only half communist, half dictatorship. When a country tries go convert to communism, they never get past the part where the goverment owns everything. At that stage the goverment is supposed to give everyone an equal share of all the weath in that country. But someone courrupts the goverment and they become a communisic dictator with all the countrys weath. So no, there is nothing bad about communism, but it tends to not be implemted. Then it gets to be a bad thing, taking away rights and such.

At 12/28/06 05:17 AM, Not-a-panda wrote: What I'd like to know is why It's "commies" are labeled evil. I mean, yes we understand that it didn't work and was flawed (or at least, we are) Why are patriots of USA so anti-communism in particular?
(Forgive me for my ignorance)

Most communisits see coumunism as an easy way to get rich. The rest see it as a great goverment. But most people sterotype because of the first reason. Also, the world has never seen true communism (see my earlier post).

At 12/25/06 06:41 PM, Dalaran2007 wrote:

At 12/20/06 04:34 PM, Denta wrote: Why is Communism bad?

Because it sells itself cheap to capitalism.

Just like China sells itself to the USA. Communism is slave labor, the natives get paid a few cents at most for a product, and some capitalist make millions in the other side of the world with it.

Communism and slave labor in China have nothing to do with eachother. China has a lot of people, so labor is cheap. This has nothing to to with communism.

At 12/28/06 08:21 AM, The-evil-bucket wrote:

At 12/25/06 06:41 PM, Dalaran2007 wrote:

At 12/20/06 04:34 PM, Denta wrote: Why is Communism bad?

Because it sells itself cheap to capitalism.

Just like China sells itself to the USA. Communism is slave labor, the natives get paid a few cents at most for a product, and some capitalist make millions in the other side of the world with it.

Communism and slave labor in China have nothing to do with eachother. China has a lot of people, so labor is cheap. This has nothing to to with communism.

Yes it does have a lot to do wih communism. Do you think China would provide such cheap labor if it wasn't for the Communist government?

In theory, good plan.

In execution....not so much.

At 12/28/06 12:44 PM, Dalaran2007 wrote:

Yes it does have a lot to do wih communism. Do you think China would provide such cheap labor if it wasn't for the Communist government?

Okay. How is communicsm and cheap labor connected?

Becuase, true socialists understand that socialism and communism are still in the distant future. Distatorship, greed, power, all human nature, conflicts with socialism. in fact, all the nations now, who call them selfs communist, are either subject to dictatorship, or have differnt classes. if both are in play, than it isnt socialism.

in fact, out of all the "Communist" leaders, there is two i respect. (that doesnt mean i have to like them)

Lenin, if it wasnt for him, then socialism would not be as popularly reconised.

Hitler. yes, he was a facist, yes, he slaughterd thousands, if not millions, yes, i hate him too, and yes, he was a socialist. but, was there ever a leader who conjuerd that much love from his fallowers? Nazi germans loved him. hell, even winston churchill respected him. Read "mein kanfp"(spelling?)

but communism wont take effect anywhere in the near future, nope. it will be a long while, possibly a catastrophic event, forceing humans to see there flaws, for communism to be chosen as a prime form of government.

Kinda depressin for me though. but hey, socialism is still a theory, and all theories need to be tested to be accurate or false. i just dont belive communism has been tested fairly. To of been run by intellegent, sensible biengs, who can forgo there desires of greed and power, they will be the ones who can truly find out if it works or not.

I dont know if anyone else in this forum who wants to see it be tested on a fair scale, but i do. And ill be happy to find out if it works or not. Preferably that it works, but thats just me.

Communism is a paradise and therefore it is VERY GOOD.
Socialism might be not as good, but it is much easier achievable.

PS: I find it fascinating, how the ignorant masses always stay ignorant.

Communism is bad because it sells itself cheap to Capitalism.

(for example, slave labor in China, making USA enterprises rich)

The same applies to Marxism, in the name of creating this ideological paradise or "worker's state" there have been countless acts of oppression, and not to mention intolerance against those with opposing views. I don't necessarily blame any of the fundamental principles of Marxist theory for the terror caused by states like China.

The same is true of Capitalism. I do wonder how many people Capitalism has killed, directly and indirectly (it would be one hell of a methodological nightmare...although people have been willing to cobble together some crap methodology for the number of people Communist states have killed.)

well for one i really don't give a flying poo sandwich about china...second i don't give a Diarrhea blasted snow cone about how many we've killed

ok..lesson time...
china isn't really communist anymore...its more socailist and is slowly becoming capitalist.....the reason behind that is because around the Early 1990s Russia just went from communist to capitalist over night and basically made all of Russia go into an economic depression.
for this reason china decided to take a slower approach to capitalism by taking "baby" steps towards it. the only country that you should probably worry about in about 20 years is china. because its going to be one of the most powerful economically based country in the world.
so you shouldn't worry about communism and capitalism and start worring about our own countries economic and education values. because we are not a world super power anymore and the reason behind that is because the education of the United States today is worse then India.....India!!! we aren't even in the top 30 most educated countries.
so stop worring about this and start just trying to live out your life as fully as possible.

-serph-

At 1/8/07 07:46 AM, Kenzu wrote: Communism is a paradise and therefore it is VERY GOOD.
Socialism might be not as good, but it is much easier achievable.

What most Pro-Communism people simply never seem to understand is that Communism itself is the problem. It is not a good idea, not a good system, and the flaw lies in Communism itself, not human nature or implementation.

Communism is based on ignorant ideology that ignores all aspects of the individual in favor of a "perfect group." It seeks to eliminate personal freedom, independent thought, self-improvement, personal success, and inter-personal competition, all for the sake of the group.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong-- the individual is even more important than the group, and Communism completely fails to take this into account. This is the root of Communism's failure, and the reason it will continue to fail every single time anyone tries to implement it. It's not "evil human nature" or "poor methods" that have made Communism perform so badly, it is the flaws of the system itself.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong-- the individual is even more important than the group

Ah, an argument boiled down to its essence - belief.

At 1/8/07 06:56 PM, Slizor wrote:

Sorry, but you are simply wrong-- the individual is even more important than the group

Ah, an argument boiled down to its essence - belief.

For an entire group to be OK, first it is necessary that the individual is OK. If I haven't managed to feed myself, how I am supposed to feed someone else?

Communism is great on paper, but doesn't work because of human greed. There is always going to be someone who wants more power, more money, etc. than the next guy. As far as personal freedom goes...true communism actually calls for the government to dissolve after a certain point has been reached. Here again (and I think this was stated earlier) greed comes into play, as the people in control are greedy and loathe to step down. Its other major major flaw is that it doesn't allow for much industrialization or education, as it emphasizes internal, lower-level jobs such as farming, while pulling away from manufacturing and exporting goods. People are less likely to educate themselves because there is no or very little income disparity (doctors get paid about the same amount as a guy pumping gas, for example). All of the deaths are a different story, however, as they represent the actions of the dictators/leaders themselves, not necessarily communist theory. It is a good dream, and a noble theory, but it won't work in reality.

At 1/8/07 07:00 PM, Dalaran2007 wrote: For an entire group to be OK, first it is necessary that the individual is OK. If I haven't managed to feed myself, how I am supposed to feed someone else?

by giving them your food? many cultures hold the idea that the group is more important and they've been doing fine for thousands of years. the popularity of focusing on the individual has really only caught on in the modern western world.

At 12/20/06 04:34 PM, Denta wrote: Why is Communism bad?

Communism isn't bad, Communism is amazing.
Unfortunately, no one has experienced Communism because of the leaders' greed. So, you're left with Stalinism or Maoism, which, quite frankly, suck.

communism cannot work. think of this. if you run out of an essential resource in a communist society, and being that the rest of the world is currently capitalist, how the fuck are you going to get ahold of that resource? you can't trade because obviously trade is obsolete.

as well, would you want to be working harder then someone else who is getting paid just as much as you when the government check comes in (in this case a check for food and water and clothes)? because i damn sure wouldnt. as well jews created communism and in a communist society it is, as we have seen in our own communizing society, becoming wrong just to be white.

At 1/8/07 10:24 AM, Slizor wrote:

The same applies to Marxism, in the name of creating this ideological paradise or "worker's state" there have been countless acts of oppression, and not to mention intolerance against those with opposing views. I don't necessarily blame any of the fundamental principles of Marxist theory for the terror caused by states like China.

The same is true of Capitalism. I do wonder how many people Capitalism has killed, directly and indirectly (it would be one hell of a methodological nightmare...although people have been willing to cobble together some crap methodology for the number of people Communist states have killed.)

I think Repression and the like has nothing to do with Communism, Socialism nor Capitalism
since these are merely economic systems.

Repression, executions, arrests of opponents, don't exist because of Socialism or Capitalism, but because of Dictatorships.

At 1/8/07 08:50 PM, TightRope wrote: communism cannot work. think of this. if you run out of an essential resource in a communist society, and being that the rest of the world is currently capitalist, how the fuck are you going to get ahold of that resource? you can't trade because obviously trade is obsolete.

You still can donate to others if they need something.
and they will donate to you, if you need something.

as well, would you want to be working harder then someone else who is getting paid just as much as you when the government check comes in (in this case a check for food and water and clothes)? because i damn sure wouldnt. as well jews created communism and in a communist society it is, as we have seen in our own communizing society, becoming wrong just to be white.

In Communism you dont work for money, but you work, because you like your work, or because it makes you happy that you help the society.

PS: It is the same feeling as if you donate money to poor people. Remember that feeling? Sure you do, if you ever gave someone something for free.

PS: And if you are a lazy ass and dont work at all, other people will not like you and you will be excluded from social events. No one likes arrogant people.

it's not, it's just been poorly implemented. Currently, the only country that is anywhere near what communism is, is Cuba. Which is socialist if anything. So would everyone who shouts down the reds, remember that it has'nt actually been implemented, and that the killing was done by dictators, which is not communism.

At 1/8/07 07:15 PM, MightyMightyKirk wrote: Communism is great on paper, but doesn't work because of human greed.

At 1/8/07 08:46 PM, CyanClock wrote: Unfortunately, no one has experienced Communism because of the leaders' greed.

At 1/9/07 09:36 AM, The-Gus wrote: it's not, it's just been poorly implemented.

This is the exact foolishness that I was just arguing against earlier. Communism itslef sucks. It's not human traits, it's not a lack of "true" Communism, it's not poor implementation. The system itself is unstable, unreliable, and inherently flawed.

At 1/8/07 07:15 PM, SolInvictus wrote: many cultures hold the idea that the group is more important and they've been doing fine for thousands of years. the popularity of focusing on the individual has really only caught on in the modern western world.

All of those cultures have supported that ideal as a way to control the masses. If you teach them to value the group, you can con them into self-sacrifice and make them accept your "justice" and leadership. However, it is also worth mentioning that Nationalism, the primary "group-think" power behind Communism, also only arose recently in the modern Western world, after individualism became a refined philosophy. Even before then, however, Individualism has been the default philosophy in every civilization in the world; the martyr for the group has traditionally been few and far between.

Communism violates that basic ideal by demanding that you feed everyone else (regardless of everything) and then feed yourself. That's how you get 10 million starving people and a surplus of food lying around. Communism is a mirage-- if the seemingly blind idealists actually took a look at the details, they'd realize the absurdity of a Communist system.

The majority of my views on communism may have already been said. But communism will not work and will never work.
Everyone is not equal. Everyone chooses who they want to be. And that may involve working harder than other people, or just being fucking better at it. Who tells them that life has to be fair?
If you were given the opportunity to work your ass off or do an easier job for the same amount of pay you'd take the easy option. Garranteed. Regardless of job satisfaction.

Every person on this planet looks out for themselves and themselves only. As a race, we a naturally greedy and the only way to re-in force our greed is too work hard. If you're not greedy, then why do you have a computer that is capable of running internet? I could use another computer to run the internet. A kid in a third world contry could benifit from the money it cost to get your computer.

As soon as our motivation to strive for success is taken away, no one would cope or do anything for that matter. And that is why Communism is a flawed.

At 1/9/07 01:14 PM, Draconias wrote: This is the exact foolishness that I was just arguing against earlier. Communism itslef sucks. It's not human traits, it's not a lack of "true" Communism, it's not poor implementation. The system itself is unstable, unreliable, and inherently flawed.

Its the true traits that drive people away from communism and to other less extreme ways of living. Without the human traits their is no-one to vote for a communist party, or to support them in a violent revolution.
It is only when there is difficult circumstances people view it as a way out.