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At 12/29/06 07:41 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 12/29/06 07:38 PM, Dre-Man wrote: But it lacks what it needs, thus proving religion the greater explanation.

wow, just wow.

Welp, it's not like you have anything to prove otherwise.

At 12/29/06 07:44 PM, Dre-Man wrote:

At 12/29/06 07:41 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 12/29/06 07:38 PM, Dre-Man wrote: But it lacks what it needs, thus proving religion the greater explanation.

wow, just wow.

Welp, it's not like you have anything to prove otherwise.

Dre man if it was your choice, would you do it?

Would you remove science from everyone's lives? Let's say you could wave your fingers and make it so that everyone accepted everything based on faith, would you do it?

At 12/29/06 07:55 PM, fasdit wrote:

At 12/29/06 07:44 PM, Dre-Man wrote:

At 12/29/06 07:41 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 12/29/06 07:38 PM, Dre-Man wrote: But it lacks what it needs, thus proving religion the greater explanation.

wow, just wow.

Welp, it's not like you have anything to prove otherwise.

Dre-man if it was your choice, would you do it?

Would you remove science from everyone's lives? Let's say you could wave your fingers and make it so that everyone accepted everything based on faith, would you do it?

That's a difficult question, I'm sure you would have a hard time saying "I would make everyone an atheist if I had the chance.", just as a muslim or buddhist would have a hard time saying such a thing.

But probably, no. I don't have the intention of trying to make everyone believe as I do, or to convert everyone on NG to Christianity. I'm just arguing my point.

Dre man, do you think that science is the primary reason we have a high standard of living?

You know what cracks me up?

The hypocracy of those who claim science to be the be-all-end-all answer to all of life's mysteries. They denounce the Bible because of it's innacuracies and improbabilities, or how it's used merely as a tool to control the unwashed masses... but they turn a blind eye to the fact the scientific theories have to be rewritten every few years or so to accomodate "new evidence," or scrapped entirerly.

The way I look at it, we're no different today than that ancient man who first gazed up at the stars and started wondering how all of this could have come into existance. Or more importantly, WHY.

At 12/29/06 08:09 PM, Dre-Man wrote:

Ah I see, because the big bang is "just a theory" and you have an absolute belief about the stages at which the earth was created means your inverifiable young-earth creationism is more valid than Science which has been validated countless times by empirical observation by people who know far more about the field than you do.

Ignoring the fact, of course, that your young-earth creationism not only has absolutely no evidence in support of it whatsoever, but also goes against scientific principles such as Occam's razor, not to mention the fact that it's totally useless as it gives us no insight into any aspects of the natural world.

At 12/29/06 08:20 PM, Proteas wrote: You know what cracks me up?

The hypocracy of those who claim science to be the be-all-end-all answer to all of life's mysteries. They denounce the Bible because of it's innacuracies and improbabilities, or how it's used merely as a tool to control the unwashed masses... but they turn a blind eye to the fact the scientific theories have to be rewritten every few years or so to accomodate "new evidence," or scrapped entirerly.

First of all, no-one thinks that science is the be-all-end-all answer to life's mysteries. That's complete bullshit.

Second of all, science is the exploration of the unknown, and given that scientists are human and use tools made by humans, of course they are going to make errors. Scientific theories have to be rewritten every few years because they are being corrected. As more evidence acumulates, the theories inevitably become more valid. However, in reality it's only the small details which are being refined - it's not like vast differences are being made to scientific theories every day, so that no-one can have the slightest idea of what is correct.

The people who can't be trusted are those who are "always right".

Also, theories are very rarely completely overturned, apart from in the case of severe anomalies or poor equipment. You're simply incorrect on that point.

At 12/29/06 08:30 PM, Peter-II wrote: First of all, no-one thinks that science is the be-all-end-all answer to life's mysteries. That's complete bullshit.

So you've been hijacking this thread and refuting every apposing viewpoint thus far... why?

At 12/29/06 08:40 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 12/29/06 08:30 PM, Peter-II wrote: First of all, no-one thinks that science is the be-all-end-all answer to life's mysteries. That's complete bullshit.

So you've been hijacking this thread and refuting every apposing viewpoint thus far... why?

Mostly boredom. It is 1:30 AM here after all. I don't see your problem though, you can't expect to make a post in the politics forum and have it not responded to.

At 12/29/06 08:20 PM, Proteas wrote: You know what cracks me up?

The hypocracy of those who claim science to be the be-all-end-all answer to all of life's mysteries. They denounce the Bible because of it's innacuracies and improbabilities, or how it's used merely as a tool to control the unwashed masses... but they turn a blind eye to the fact the scientific theories have to be rewritten every few years or so to accomodate "new evidence," or scrapped entirerly.

The way I look at it, we're no different today than that ancient man who first gazed up at the stars and started wondering how all of this could have come into existance. Or more importantly, WHY.

Science is not the end to all answer, but it is the reason we are able to explain the unknown.

In ancient times people used religion as a way to explain the unknown.
Remember how the romans explained lightening as the wrath of Zeus the thunder god?

Because of science we know the actual cause of lightening. It has nothing to do with gods or religion.

And look at all the things science has made possible, we wouldn't be able to have this conversation on the internet on these things called computers without science.

So in that sense there is a huge difference between humans today and humans two thousand years ago.

Science is able to update itself to become more accurate, religion and the bible is unable to update itself, or atleast until the comming of the next messiah. But that probably will never happen.

At 12/29/06 08:44 PM, fasdit wrote: And look at all the things science has made possible, we wouldn't be able to have this conversation on the internet on these things called computers without science.

So in that sense there is a huge difference between humans today and humans two thousand years ago.

*sigh*

I was not bashing science because of all the good it has done mankind, I was bashing it because it still has no firm concrete explanation as to HOW the universe came into existance, just the same as religion. You say "big bang," dre-man says "man in the sky," sorry... but they both seem a bit fishy to me when I take a few steps back away from how I was raised.

You know what Proteas, dre-man needs to be put down. The guys fucked in the head making no sence in what shit he's saying.

Its help maybe something or other. sandwich corn robot.

At 12/29/06 09:08 PM, made-4-sex wrote: You know what Proteas, dre-man needs to be put down. The guys fucked in the head making no sence in what shit he's saying.

And without folks like him, this would be one HELL of a one sided debate.

At 12/29/06 08:58 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 12/29/06 08:44 PM, fasdit wrote: And look at all the things science has made possible, we wouldn't be able to have this conversation on the internet on these things called computers without science.

So in that sense there is a huge difference between humans today and humans two thousand years ago.

*sigh*

I was not bashing science because of all the good it has done mankind, I was bashing it because it still has no firm concrete explanation as to HOW the universe came into existance, just the same as religion. You say "big bang," dre-man says "man in the sky," sorry... but they both seem a bit fishy to me when I take a few steps back away from how I was raised.

We weren't talking about the big bang though, this was all a discussion of how the earth formed. This was not a discussion about the universe. I think the big bang sounds a bit fishy too and am still a bit skeptical about it. Perhaps god is responsible for the big bang, perhaps there was no big bang, perhaps god is simply everything atom around us. Maybe god is the universe and we are simply part of him or it. Who knows.

But we do have proof both through literal observations and empirical observations of how planets, stars, and moons form from dust nebulas. Dre man insists that this cannot be proven, however I have provided plenty of evidence to support my belief of nebulas forming into stars and planets through gravitational attraction.

The only proof dre man has that god created the earth is through faith. Faith is good enough for him so be it, but it is not enough for me to go on.

At 12/29/06 09:15 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 12/29/06 09:08 PM, made-4-sex wrote: You know what Proteas, dre-man needs to be put down. The guys fucked in the head making no sence in what shit he's saying.

And without folks like him, this would be one HELL of a one sided debate.

not really. Eventually he'll go overboard. We'll just wait a while till you tell him to stop it in a nice, kind way like you did with the last guy, then he will announce it and fuck off forever. Then someone else will take his place. Then you will do what........

At 12/29/06 09:19 PM, made-4-sex wrote: Then you will do what........

... I am not a pet monkey who does tricks for your amusement. If he decides to leave this forum, it will be of his own volition, not mine.

At 12/29/06 09:38 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 12/29/06 09:19 PM, made-4-sex wrote: Then you will do what........

... I am not a pet monkey who does tricks for your amusement. If he decides to leave this forum, it will be of his own volition, not mine.

I dont think hes got much of a clue on the rules yet

For probably the 5th time, this is not a creationism verses evolution or science verses religion thread. I posted this to debate whether religion ceases importance. Depending on how ignorant one is of culture will prove how little one knows that our society is undertones of what people in the past believe.

The idea of brotherly love and anti-discrimination is not ethical nor scientific it comes out of religion. Monotheistic religions like Islam, Christianity, Judaism and many other religions teach this. Science would say it is survival of the fittest which in some ways does exist in capitalistic nations like the United States.

On the other hand, religious beliefs and values are still quite apparent. Please let's refocus on the philosophical meaning of

"In a culture where rationalism reigns, will God remain or become dead to society"
Is this happening or is it an oxymoron?

I would argue that western society as a whole will not totally move away from religion as modern philosophy would predict. Although we value rationalism, more and more people are seeking significance and this is not usually found in cold science (or knowledge) but wisdom which is found in religion and philosophy(the discovery of truth and existence).

At 12/18/06 06:03 PM, cold-as-hell wrote: Christian numbers are droping?

HORAY!!

seconded, Christians piss me off when they try to pass off their beliefs to others. i want to see a group of protesting christians at my theater when a sequel to The Da Vinci code comes out just so i can mock them.

At 12/29/06 08:20 PM, Proteas wrote: You know what cracks me up?

The hypocracy of those who claim science to be the be-all-end-all answer to all of life's mysteries. They denounce the Bible because of it's innacuracies and improbabilities, or how it's used merely as a tool to control the unwashed masses... but they turn a blind eye to the fact the scientific theories have to be rewritten every few years or so to accomodate "new evidence," or scrapped entirerly.

The way I look at it, we're no different today than that ancient man who first gazed up at the stars and started wondering how all of this could have come into existance. Or more importantly, WHY.

Sigh. The fact that scientific theories have to be written every few years is PROGRESS. As oposed to the stationary view of the Bible, that's completely wrong (inaccuracies and so on), and will always STAY completely wrong, the words aren't going to change all of a sudden, science is actually moving forward.

Science is a system that gives us better and better answers as for how the world works. You can be damn sure that in a few decades, we'll look at a lot of things in an entirely different way. But that's called progress, improvement, technological advance. As opposed to static religion, science is a dynamic thing. The "be-all-end-all" approach of science is an outdated worldview, that dates back to pre-17th century thinking.

Science as a system is giving us better and better knowledge all the time. Sometimes through gradual development, a couple of hundred more digits of Pi, sometimes there are vast leaps in discovery, when entirely new concepts are thought out, like Newton's theory of gravity, special and general theory of relativity and so on.

No, science doesn't give us the "be-all-end-all answer" to questions of life. Science does ensure that we get theories that correspond better and better to reality.

Bible: gives wrong answer, will always keep giving the same wrong answer
Science: gives wrong answer, but every time it gives a new answer, it's a bit less wrong than the previous. (Less wrong in the sence that the answer explains more, predicts more, allows new and better insights in the way things work, and so on).

What cracks me up is that the only people that don't put science above religion as a way of explaining how the world works, are the people that don't really get what modern science is about. Heck, until the worldwars, the bushmen were still living in the prehistory.

At 12/18/06 06:03 PM, cold-as-hell wrote: Christian numbers are droping?

HORAY!!

You sick little athiest bastard, for all I care you can go to hell! Ask God why when you die, and ask nothing more of him.

At 12/30/06 02:29 PM, Andrea364 wrote:

At 12/18/06 06:03 PM, cold-as-hell wrote: Christian numbers are droping?

HORAY!!

You sick little athiest bastard, for all I care you can go to hell! Ask God why when you die, and ask nothing more of him.

"God, why are you a figment of everyones imagination?"

no answer

"God I challenge you to a duel. If I win I get to be overlord of the universe. If you dont answer in the next 2 minutes I win by default.

2 minutes later

I win!!! Now my minions go off and do my bidding! mu ha ha ha

At 12/30/06 02:29 PM, Andrea364 wrote:

At 12/18/06 06:03 PM, cold-as-hell wrote: Christian numbers are droping?

HORAY!!

You sick little athiest bastard, for all I care you can go to hell! Ask God why when you die, and ask nothing more of him.

And who are you calling me little? Im 6ft 3! So since im overlord I order you to comit sucide. mu ha ha ha

I don't think that God can be dead as long as there is something that science cannot fully and completely explain. People will always want to attribute something to God because of that.

Basically there will always be some type of spiritual belief held by some people.

But I think that as the human race continues to advance, the number of atheists and agnostics will also continue to rise. Just look at Europe.

It just seems like a natural progression for people to move away from religion as science and technology becomes more imersed in every day life. We don't live in some kind of easy going simple life down on the farm anymore (at least most people on the internet don't), so it only seems natural that god will lose his place in peoples lives.

If God loves me like all you bible nuts say then where the fucks my porsche?!?!?!

At 12/30/06 07:36 PM, cold-as-hell wrote: If God loves me like all you bible nuts say then where the fucks my porsche?!?!?!

God doesn't just go around giving people whatever they want just because they demand proof of His existence. It helps to actually give more than a cursory glance at the Bible before trying to claim that it is idiocy.

At 12/31/06 07:23 AM, qygibo wrote:

At 12/30/06 07:36 PM, cold-as-hell wrote: If God loves me like all you bible nuts say then where the fucks my porsche?!?!?!

God doesn't just go around giving people whatever they want just because they demand proof of His existence. It helps to actually give more than a cursory glance at the Bible before trying to claim that it is idiocy.

So basically it's also impossible for him to perform miracles, since he can't mess with free will.

Not really. God can perform all sorts of miracles; our free will determines whether or not we believe them to be miracles or not. I believe that I've had several miracles happen to myself, and I also know that other people wouldn't regard them as such, and that's ok, really.

At 12/31/06 12:27 PM, qygibo wrote: Not really. God can perform all sorts of miracles; our free will determines whether or not we believe them to be miracles or not. I believe that I've had several miracles happen to myself, and I also know that other people wouldn't regard them as such, and that's ok, really.

Yeah okay, that sounds like a load of bullshit to me.

Hey guys look at me I'm god, I'm performing miracles right now!! But there's a catch, they're only miracles if you imagine that I just performed them.