Somalia: Still Sucks

[Brownie210]

For those who like reading up on the going-ons of almost important areas of the world, and enjoy the benefits of it, this one's for you.

Somalia has been in a constant state of, to put in technical terms, suck for quite awhile now. For those who missed that 10 minutes of Geography and Black Hawk Down, Somalia is that country on the Horn of Africa, shaped kind of like a 7. Now when I say country, I do not mean country in the classical sense of a place where people have came together behind one banner in hopes of outdoing others, in fact, I mean just the opposite. Calling Somalia a country, is like calling a bowl of oatmeal, gold. There are some similarities, but just not really all that much.

For those who haven't heard, Somalia has got itself in a tizzy again. Pretty much, Puntland and Somaliland (Making up the top part of the 7) still hate each other over their border, the South has nearly been taken over by a radical, and relatively new, Islamic alliance, and the crappy UN-supported government is on the verge of collapse. However, over the past week, Ethiopia has started sending troops to Somalia in hopes of maintaining the crappy UN-supported government. Why would Ethiopia do this, you ask? Well, there may or may not be a connection Al Queida, but nobody wants people crazier then theirselves on their border, not to mention most of the African nations in the area want to keep this local.

So, with reports of Ethiopian aggression against the Islamists, it looks like the whole place is going to hell all over again. In truth, they probably never left. Ever since the Soviets left them to dry, Somalia has stayed in a near constant state of political and military turmoil and general suckiness. What makes this suckiness different is the fact all the bickering little war-lords have either merged together or gotten their asses handed to them, setting the stage for a clash large enough to decide the fate of the entire region.

That's the jist of it, personally, I'd like to see the the Transition Government survive, but Abdullahi better get his ducks in a row, and as much outside help as he can.

[Artman40]

Well, ICU is falling apart at the moment.

[JudgeDredd]

At 12/12/06 11:20 PM, Brownie210 wrote: Somalia [the country, not the disease] has been in a constant state of, to put in technical terms, suck for quite awhile now. Now when I say country, I do not mean country in the classical sense of a place where people have came together behind one banner in hopes of outdoing others, in fact, I mean just the opposite. Calling Somalia a country, is like calling a bowl of oatmeal, gold. There are some similarities, but just not really all that much.

Hehe.

And here's an interesting factoid..

"The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which forbids capital punishment for juveniles, has been signed and ratified by all countries except for the USA and Somalia."

Hard to say who this reflects more badly on; the un-state of Somalia, or the U.S. of A?

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 12/30/06 12:58 PM, I7REI7I7 wrote:
"The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which forbids capital punishment for juveniles, has been signed and ratified by all countries except for the USA and Somalia."

Hard to say who this reflects more badly on; the un-state of Somalia, or the U.S. of A?

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on American capital punishment, but when's the last time a "juvenile" has been executed on US soil? I'm going to guess never, based on the fact that executions take years and years to process. Murder someone gruesomely at 16? You may be tried as an adult, and if your state allows it, sentenced to death.

Something tells me the correlation between Somali justice and American justice is akin to MIchael Madson and Deliverance.

[JudgeDredd]

At 12/30/06 01:05 PM, Leeloo-Minai wrote: executions take years and years to process. Murder someone gruesomely at 16? You may be tried as an adult, and if your state allows it, sentenced to death.

Hey Leeloo :)

The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child covers anyone upto the age of 18.

How is having a juvenile on death-row until old enough to be put to death any different than say forcing a mental patient to take meds so that they're no longer classed "insane", and can therefore be put to death? I think the point here is they were juvenile or insane when they comitted the crime, and therefore should remain exempt as such, if that's the law.

To be fair, the US have signed the treaty, but for 17 years haven't ratified it. One reason the Bush administration has against it is "the right to privacy", which might entail giving teens unhindered rights to abortion.

...

Back to Somalia; How about instead of adopt a child, Africa initiates an "adopt a country" program?

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 12/30/06 01:38 PM, I7REI7I7 wrote:

At 12/30/06 01:05 PM, Leeloo-Minai wrote: executions take years and years to process. Murder someone gruesomely at 16? You may be tried as an adult, and if your state allows it, sentenced to death.

Hey Leeloo :)

Hey babe :-P>

How is having a juvenile on death-row until old enough to be put to death any different than say forcing a mental patient to take meds so that they're no longer classed "insane", and can therefore be put to death?

Personally, I see both the insane murderer and the 16+ murderer in the same boat. The fashion and motivations behind murder cases ultimately decides their fate.

Insanity is all in your head, after all, and once that's "fixed" with drugs or counseling or an environment found to "cure" their insanity, what exactly makes them insane? It's their inability to live and function in our society without creating more problems than they help fix. How is keeping an insane murderer with no concept or understanding of law, order, or even the basic right to life benficial to a forward-thinking society?

Putting kooks in cages to rot their lives away, being waited upon hand and foot (because they cannot be allowed to live free and independent, hence their admission into asylums [still talking murderous psychos here]) is merciful at best, sadistic at it's worse.

Imagine being forced to take experimental drugs because you thought being nuts was better off than being convicted as a sane person for some heinous crime. Once you're deemed insane, there are MOUNTAINS of change you must endure, convincingly, in order to avoid being treated like a pyschopathic killer who could re-snap at any moment.

I think the point here is they were juvenile or insane when they comitted the crime, and therefore should remain exempt as such, if that's the law.

The law is double-edged.

To be fair, the US have signed the treaty, but for 17 years haven't ratified it. One reason the Bush administration has against it is "the right to privacy", which might entail giving teens unhindered rights to abortion.

The right to privacy is indeed a multi-faceted issue, involving not only abortion but private property rights as well. I think this right to privacy issue hasn't had NEAR the attention it deserves, either. Not necessarily by the judicial system and congress, but by the general populace.

...

Back to Somalia; How about instead of adopt a child, Africa initiates an "adopt a country" program?

Maybe. But last time we tried that they started out slaves and ended up citizens. Notch one more up for imperialism founded on hard work and the dollar.

[JudgeDredd]

At 12/30/06 02:06 PM, Leeloo-Minai wrote: Personally, I see both the insane murderer and the 16+ murderer in the same boat. The fashion and motivations behind murder cases ultimately decides their fate.

What about coaching? I think the young accomplice in the DC sniper shooting (17-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo) was tried as an adult, even when it seemed fairly obvious that he was coached into it.

Back to Somalia; How about instead of adopt a child, Africa initiates an "adopt a country" program?

Maybe. But last time we tried that they started out slaves and ended up citizens.

True for the most part, except for those free slaves who instead chose to return to Freetown (Sierra Leone).

I just imagine an adoptions process could be tendered out better than say relying on the good will or grace of neighbours (Ethiopia in Somalia's case, or Nigeria in the case of Sierra Leone).

[Leeloo-Minai]

At 12/30/06 02:38 PM, I7REI7I7 wrote:

At 12/30/06 02:06 PM, Leeloo-Minai wrote: Personally, I see both the insane murderer and the 16+ murderer in the same boat. The fashion and motivations behind murder cases ultimately decides their fate.

What about coaching? I think the young accomplice in the DC sniper shooting (17-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo) was tried as an adult, even when it seemed fairly obvious that he was coached into it.

You mean teamwork? As I understood it, Malvo was the trigger man operating from the trunk of a truck specially designed to house a serial killer. How that killer earned his stripes for his demented father-figure is merely a testament to the maliciousness of them both. It's one thing to have an agenda to murder, and another to twist the minds of the dim into tools for that agenda. Along with being charged with multiple murders (because Malvo DID murder mulitple people) he should be evaluated by professionals to deem whether or not therapy should be provided. If they think he can be reformed and essnetially turn over a new leaf, while serving his sentence, place his work program in an environment where an upstanding authority figure can try to reteach fatherly values. Not necessarily directly, but a role model.

Or he can watch reruns of Fresh Prince for 80 years while serving his term.

Back to Somalia; How about instead of adopt a child, Africa initiates an "adopt a country" program?

Maybe. But last time we tried that they started out slaves and ended up citizens.

True for the most part, except for those free slaves who instead chose to return to Freetown (Sierra Leone).

I just imagine an adoptions process could be tendered out better than say relying on the good will or grace of neighbours (Ethiopia in Somalia's case, or Nigeria in the case of Sierra Leone).

[Empanado]

Well, Ethiopians are the cool kids of Africa. I mean, sure, they live in a hellhole and their standard of living is barely above African average, but they're, like, cool.
Hopefully they'll teach the Somalians to be as cool as them. Once people in Somalia learn how to be cool, their situation will improve substantially.

Or maybe they'll just hack each other to pieces in a slightly professional way for a short while before resorting to death squads of village raiders who will hack civilians to pieces in a not-so-professional way and place shortly before placing their dismembered genitals in their mouths.

Or did that happen a little bit down to the south-west?

[Buffalow]

Ethiopia is the New Jersey of Africa, everyone makes fun of it, but when it turns into balls hitting walls, it always kicks ass.

[Der-Ubermensch]

Africa (or as I like to call it: God's blind spot) needs to be cleansed, period. Such savagery cannot even be classified as prehistoric. Let them kill each other to extinction.

Well since the transitional gov took mogadishu I would assume it will not be long now until the icu is dead, puntland rejoins the country and everything will be peachy.

But what to do about somaliland?

[Begoner]

The Islamic Courts Union was the best thing that happened to Somalia in the past 15 years, and when being conquered by a fundamentalist, authoritarian organization is a good thing, that's saying something.

[JudgeDredd]

At 12/30/06 05:22 PM, zeus-almighty wrote: Well since the transitional gov took mogadishu I would assume it will not be long now until the icu is dead, puntland rejoins the country and everything will be peachy.

I heard it that they melted away in a few days (removed their uniforms an blended in) which means they will pick their moment to retake mogadishu with the intent to secure more arms.

Sun Tzu: The Art of War.

[Brownie210]

Wow, this actually received replies? Huzzah.

Anyway, the Islamic folk are pledging a fight to their or everyone else's end, so I think this situation has yet to diffuse itself. To add to the mix, all those damned war-lords are starting to redevelope their support, claiming the government's "stability" is held only by Ethiopian soldiers: When they're gone, so goes the stability.

So fear not, even if the Islamic Courts some how manage to screw up beyond belief in inacting an active guerilla war campaign or an insurgncy in the least, war is just too prevelant to be avoided in this lovely patch of our blue Earth.

For those who haven't been keeping up, Ethiopian troops are preparing for an all-out assault on the last stronghold of the ICU. Reportedly, the ICU has a few thousand troops to throw away, and they figured they might as well do it all at once.