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jesus DUDE I am not debating about bible contradictions!!! thats not the topic I know I said something about it but that wasnt really ment to make you start that whole insane debate again!

I was replying because of your wrong interpretation of my earlier argument which has nothing to do with bible contradiction you sack of horse sheit! PLZ stop being such a weirdo comon I know you dont think the bible contradicts, you made yourself pretty clear a long time ago PM-ing me about it, NOW please ............................... get laid

just saying

You're going to get a shitty mark because you're presenting it to the wrong audience.

GOGOGO Grammer, you're killing them =D

Ultimately it all comes down to the assertion that God is all powerful, and therefore has no limitations, even by our scientific rules(and I'm assuming that it's scientific evidence you're looking for to base you're logic on). So, no matter what scientific evidence one has, God is, ultimately, above it.

The question as to the existence of God is the ultimate question for Humanity, and will require more study. The myth of God is far from being dispelled.

At 12/9/06 11:17 PM, Excalibur27 wrote: IMO Darwins theory of Evolution needs some revisons.

No, your veiws of darwins theory need revisions

Example

A species will evolve and change to suit their surroundings. In other words out of NECESSITY, not more then neccesary not less than necessary.
But human beings are far more than is necessary.

Plain and simple, that is not the theory of evolution. Evolution states that the organisms BEST suited to their environment will survive to reproductive age. Therefore, the next generation is composed of the genotypes of the survivors only. That generation will compete against each other and only the best of that (best of the best) will reproduce. When the climate changes, the organisms best suited to it survive and the trait that makes them able to survive will be taken further, but there are hundreds of other processes that drive evolution. In mans recent history we have not evolved much, but as we created language it has been possible for us to preserve our ideas and for our culture to "evolve"

Some people will argue that it is merely are technology that makes us so superior, so much morre than necessary.

But logically we never should have been able to create the technology we have in the first place.

We never should have been able to move beyond the new stoneage.

Obviously the level of tech a chimp has works, they still exist. Many primates are dissapearing, but that is largely do to OUR interference.

Following Darwins laws the Human mkind is an impossibilty in itself.

The men who used spears lived, those who used sticks died. People would have seen this and started building spears, then bigger spears, then bows etc. Basically from the dawn of time humanity has been one big ass arms race to get ahead in life. Evolution concerns physical traits such as brain capacity etc, so as far as technology goes, it is 100% irrelevant

Actually brain capacity has a great deal to do with Technology.

It takes a great deal of thought and reason to invent anything.

Even by your example it would be observation that led to this.
That would already mean our minds were superior to those of all other creatures.

When a species struggles to survive against predators their body will compensate for this in evolution, if not the species will go extinct.

No other creature INVENTS new forms of technology to survive, they use what is availabe to them (within limits) and their bodies change slowly adapt to aid in the rest.

At 12/10/06 12:53 PM, emmytee wrote:

Plain and simple, that is not the theory of evolution. Evolution states that the organisms BEST suited to their environment will survive to reproductive age. Therefore, the next generation is composed of the genotypes of the survivors only. That generation will compete against each other and only the best of that (best of the best) will reproduce.

Genetics give a species the ability to evolve, im more disscusing the circumstances that lead to a specific outcome. The guidlines.

I know this is most likely irrelevant but i cant resist.
Explain the reason for the continued existance of the Lemming then?
I hardly consider a species of suicidal rodents to be fit "survival of the fittest".

When the climate changes, the organisms best suited to it survive and the trait that makes them able to survive will be taken further, but there are hundreds of other processes that drive evolution.

Its those "hundreds of other processes" that shape it.

In mans recent history we have not evolved much, but as we created language it has been possible for us to preserve our ideas and for our culture to "evolve"

No other creatures can communicate to our extent either.
this is one of those examples of human mental superiority to an extent that shouldnt be possible.

Dolphins have a limited form of communication, we would need nothing more than that.

At 12/9/06 09:25 AM, cold-as-hell wrote: I got proof. Its called evolution and the big bang. And the simple fact that i dought that noah on the ark could hold 5,000 species of mammals.

Technically all three are theories, you can't prove any of them. You are an idiot.

At 12/8/06 09:56 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Proof against God usually stems from misinterpreting religious texts or something like that.

Nobody can prove God doesn't exist because nobody can even prove that they exist themselves, or that the universe itself is real.

A human who doesn't know how they got here, doesn't know where they are going cannot possibly prove that God, something that exist soutside of our tiny 3-dimensional universe doesn't exist.

Any human who suggests otherwise is a fool.

I concur with that statement. As a matter of fact, I'm agnostic, simply because we don't have enough prove for both sides of the argument.

Ya now T-luv there is a famous you can use.

For those who believe there is already proof enough, and for those who dont there most likely never will be.

At 12/10/06 02:15 PM, Residue wrote:

At 12/9/06 09:25 AM, cold-as-hell wrote: I got proof. Its called evolution and the big bang. And the simple fact that i dought that noah on the ark could hold 5,000 species of mammals.

Technically all three are theories, you can't prove any of them. You are an idiot.

Shut the fuck up!

What the hell is wrong with you people?!

"God is dead", said Nietzsche.

ok i beleive in go.
but gods were probly made up by elder tribesmen thousands of years ago.

At 12/9/06 04:40 PM, Peter-II wrote:

At 12/9/06 04:27 PM, RedGlare wrote:

No, just no. You don't know anything about anything.

Says the pot to the kettle. If blank denials are all you can muster then don't bother posting.

After thinking it over and over again, I have concluded that even God (if he/she/it exists) is far from perfect. Just look at everyday life. Hunger, misery. Lets go deeper, such things as aging, or cancer, or viruses... Should any of these things exist in a perfect universe? I doubt so... His creation has plenty of flaws. Maybe God's power, too, has some kind of limitation?

Perhaps only God is capable of true perfection?

Perhaps the universe once was as you say, but no longer is due to the fall of man?

Perhaps the essence of humanity is the soul and not the body?

At 12/9/06 09:25 AM, cold-as-hell wrote: I got proof. Its called evolution and the big bang. And the simple fact that i dought that noah on the ark could hold 5,000 species of mammals.

Please note that it is the THEORY of evolution, not proof of evolution. And again, i keep telling people that the Bible is not a history book. Most of the things in the bible are exaggerated to: a) make people believe in God, b) try to explain some sort of natural disaster, or c) help people to understand their faith. Most of the bible was written 50 years after Jesus' death. The bible is symbolic and figurative, not realistic. That's why Cristians aren't forced to sacrifice lambs to God (it's one of the 300 commandments that Moses delivered, no not the 10 commandments, Moses actually had 300 commandments which the first 200 of them were condensed in to the 10 we know today, and the remaining 100 were just stupid one's like sacrificing goats and junk), curcumsize our kinds at baptism (circumsizing was a means to prevent infection, and was in wide usage back then), or stone people to death.

At 12/10/06 01:52 PM, Excalibur27 wrote: Actually brain capacity has a great deal to do with Technology.

It takes a great deal of thought and reason to invent anything.

Even by your example it would be observation that led to this.
That would already mean our minds were superior to those of all other creatures.

They are. We have about 2.5 pints of brain, other species have much less brainpower per unit weight. We have much bigger brains than elephants of gorillas. We cooperate and use 'cunning' to avoid our natural predators. We are the best at doing this, and so our competitors died out early on (neanderthals etc). We occupy a certain niche in the world - we rock at laying traps, using tools etc: we are essentially the tacticians. The reason crocs don't evolve to become like us is because they live in rivers and eat things when they go for a drink. We would suck at that. Every species on earth has slightly different survival strategies, and when two have the exact same requirements (and live in the same place ) they will usually compete until the weaker species is completely gone.

We are by no means the pinnacle of evolution, we simply are the best at our chosen 'niche'. Having said that, we are also the species which is having the biggest affect on the planet, and I guess we could be said to be the dominant creature. This is only because our survival strategy seems to work best.
.

When a species struggles to survive against predators their body will compensate for this in evolution, if not the species will go extinct.

No other creature INVENTS new forms of technology to survive, they use what is availabe to them (within limits) and their bodies change slowly adapt to aid in the rest.

Chimps use sticks as weapons, beavers build dams, birds build nests. The difference between that and an Ipod is that our superior brain power combined with language has given rise to 'abstract thought' in humans (I give it to you, that is unique) which has allowed us to create a culture and things we don't really need. At that point evolution is no longer relevant. It makes perfect sense that we evolved to be capable of these things, but as to why we do them...I don't know.

At 12/9/06 09:25 AM, cold-as-hell wrote: I got proof. Its called evolution and the big bang. And the simple fact that i dought that noah on the ark could hold 5,000 species of mammals.

That doesn't disprove god's existence. That only proves that all of our religions are wrong. Plus we aren't certain whether there even was a Big Bang or that the theory evolution is correct.

Although I agree with what you said on Noah's Ark. Lol there are over 400,000 species of beetles alone. In total there have been found about 600 different species of Elephants, only 2-3 species remain today. Also many animals can only survive in their specific environment. How do you put a tropical animal and an arctic animal on the same boat? Same for fish, tropical fish are very sensitive to their environment. If such a flood ever took place, the salt concentration of water in various places would change greatly. Severe temperature and pressure changes would also take place. Most of the fish wouldn't have survived.

What about bacteria? How did Noah collect bacteria and viruses? He is only allowed to take 2 of each kind, so he had too remove all excess bacteria from each animal and his family(that includes internal bacteria) plus the boat itself. I am also curious how he contained infectious bacteria such as, Bacillus anthracis, which causes Anthrax.

How long is a day to God if our lives are but a blink of an eye to him?

How do we know he measures days by Lunar activity like us?

Also Noahs ark could just be a parable included to teach us.

Alright, let me go through your post.

Well if there your Aces i seriously wouldn't bother i mean the Big Bang is just a theory ,a good theory but still a theory.

First error: you don't knock him down on the fact that the big bang doesn't disprove the existence of God at all, and instead do the bitch "oh it's just a theory" defense. This argument shows a serious misunderstanding of the term "theory", but that's it.

And evolution well there is the arguement of where did the very frist stage of life come from?

Self reproducing RNA molecules?

And the whole Evolution guided by God. It may sound weak but is impossible to prove/disprove.

You aren't sounding very convincing here. It actually sounds like you've carefully rehearsed this from other people, yet don't believe that stuff yourself, and just use those arguments because it's convenient for you.

Besides i still say that Thomas Acquinas arguement of first cuase is the best explanation of creation. And that it points to some creater force. I mean like evolution if the entire universe was created by anything physical like just one atom then what created that.

Aquinas' version of the cosmological argument is pure shite. It only works if you assume God to be completely different in the first place.

i mean there is that arguement that atoms can't really be created/destroyed but then how did they get there in the first place and what altered them into kickstarting the universe?

Who says atoms can't be created / destroyed? Who says they kickstarted the universe???

At 12/10/06 06:16 PM, Drubbled wrote: Please note that it is the THEORY of evolution, not proof of evolution.

The theory of gravity is just a theory, so is the theory of electromagnetism, the theory of thermodynamics, the kinetic theory, so on and so fourth. Pretty much everything in Science is JUST a theory, but that doesn't make it false. All of our electrical, mechanical, chemical appliances are created on these theories. Your computer, your clock, your car, etc. Does your car work like it's supposed to? What about your computer?

Ok, so say you have TB....

Do I treat you with the cure for TB from 1980, or the cure for TB after it evolved a resistance to the cure from 1980?

At 12/8/06 09:52 PM, Grammer wrote: There is no proof against God, unless you're some sort of moron who think The Bible contradicts itself, or something like that.

List of Biblical Contradictions
Yes, it's an atheist site, but the Bible quotes are authentic.

NOTE: Finding, or not finding, contradictions in the Bible or any other holy book does not prove God to be either false or true.

You know what Ive heared a few people say evolution and the Big Bang is just a theory and the evidence behind it is bullshit.

Well all I can say to these people. Theres more evidence to them than religion and saying 'shut up' isnt going to change that. When religion gets more evidence than evolution other than a book that could of been written by anyone. Then I will be as religious as I can possible be. But that day will NEVER come.

At 12/11/06 02:22 AM, Peter-II wrote: Alright, let me go through your post.

Well if there your Aces i seriously wouldn't bother i mean the Big Bang is just a theory ,a good theory but still a theory.

First error: you don't knock him down on the fact that the big bang doesn't disprove the existence of God at all,

Your point being?
given the fact that if somthing did disprove God we wouldn't be having this debate in the First place. Plus the fact that i said that they weren't good arguements imply's they don't.

and instead do the bitch "oh it's just a theory" defense. This argument shows a serious misunderstanding of the term "theory", but that's it.

I see and the true term is? given that ive not seen proof that the big bang did happen its still just an idea. Unless there is proof in which case please share.
If all your going to do is criticise me for not stating my points the way you want then fuck you.

And evolution well there is the arguement of where did the very frist stage of life come from?

Self reproducing RNA molecules?

Which came from?

And the whole Evolution guided by God. It may sound weak but is impossible to prove/disprove.

You aren't sounding very convincing here. It actually sounds like you've carefully rehearsed this from other people, yet don't believe that stuff yourself, and just use those arguments because it's convenient for you.

Im sorry but what? your slagging me off because you don't think i believe what i wright. Also no i didn't rehearse at all . And of course i got these arguements from someone else we all did. Unless your one of those genious child or philosopher then the chances of you forming a completly new and origional anything are pretty slim.

Besides does it matter whether or not i believe it myself? no your just being nosey seriously it makes no difference what so ever whether i do or don't.

Besides i still say that Thomas Acquinas arguement of first cuase is the best explanation of creation. And that it points to some creater force. I mean like evolution if the entire universe was created by anything physical like just one atom then what created that.

Aquinas' version of the cosmological argument is pure shite. It only works if you assume God to be completely different in the first place.

Thats just your opinion personaly it makes sense to me. Just because i believe onething which if you paid attention you'd realise i said that it was just my belief. Feel free to believe what version you want i don't give a damn.

i mean there is that arguement that atoms can't really be created/destroyed but then how did they get there in the first place and what altered them into kickstarting the universe?

Who says atoms can't be created / destroyed? Who says they kickstarted the universe???

Well lets see now the very building blocks of all matter and energy is atoms yes? if so then realisticly they must be one of the earlist stages of universly development and the arguement that they can't be destroyed etc is an arguement i've heard manytimes but not in detail.
Look it up yourself if you care so much. Im not your wet nurse.

At 12/9/06 03:51 PM, Grammer wrote:

At 12/9/06 09:07 AM, Tomsan wrote:

At 12/8/06 09:52 PM, Grammer wrote: There is no proof against God, unless you're some sort of moron who think The Bible contradicts itself, or something like that.

lol, I know we had this whole discussion already, but I thought you where convinced!

If we did, I don't remember. However, just because you get the last word, doesn't make you right. There are no Bible contradictions, and if you say there are you are wrong, there is no debating that.

Prove to me that are not contradictions. Each of the Gospels have different things to say about Jesus and differ on some important theological points such as if Jesus was born a virgin, or that Joseph was His father and was adopted by God at his Baptism.

Only those who have a simplistic faith close the door on debate...

even the most religious wise man agree with bible contradictions

Name one that aren't declared atheists.

I had several professors of theology who talked about contradictions in the Bible, yet were also Christians. Furthermore, I believe in God but I also believe the Bible is book that was divinely inspired but is yet a very human book...

because even if he exists, the question of how everything was created remains.

That would be evolution guided by God.

Exactly, that is why creationism should be taught in schools as part of a philosophy class instead of a science class...

This really gets the closed-minded Christian's blood boiling:

The Babel Fish is small, yellow, and simultaneously translates from one spoken language to another.
When inserted into the ear, its nutrition processes convert sound waves into brain waves, neatly crossing the language divide between any species you should happen to meet whilst travelling in space.

The argument goes something like this:
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED"
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

-Douglas Adams
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Open your speech with this and then sit back and enjoy the show!

Wow you pissed on there bonfire didnt you.

You will always have the people who insist that God does not exist, or that athiesm is the way to go, or something along those lines, but the simple truth is you cannot prove that God does not exist. There is not even a way to make is seem unlikely. If you actually go and study the popular science theories on how we came to be and such, it just doesnt add up. I do like your intent though, to try and remove some of the dogmatic behaviors related with Christianity. So often "christians" just tend to go along with the flow and don't even really have a relationship with Christ.