Hezbollah Human Shield tactics

[cellardoor6]

The misguided and ridiculous claims made by people on newgrounds months ago concerning the Israel-Lebanon conflict still resonate in my ears:

"Hezbollah never used human shields, Hezbollah is only protecting the Lebanese, Hezbollah is fighting a just war and protecting its people from Israeli war crimes, blah blah blah"

But anyone in their right mind will have realized that most of the civilian deaths that took place in Lebanon were not the Israeli military's fault, but that of Hezbollah, and many of the supposed civilian deaths were actually Hezbollah fighters themselves.

Hezbollah intentionally used its own people as human shields because they knew that if they fought in a decent manner, they would have been annhiliated by the superior Israeli forces.

Therefore, as shown in this video, Hezbollah would strategically locate their military equipment in close proximatey to their own civilian buildings, and even retreat and hide in large civilian complexes in order to do these things:

1) Exploit the decency of the Israeli military by causing them to hesitate to attack Hezbollah targets for fear of causing civilian death. This would buy more time for Hezbollah to conduct attacks.

2) Using these civilian lives and civilian buildings as human shields propaganda. Hezbollah knew that Israel's first obligation is to protect its OWN people, therefore Israeli forces were obligated to bomb various Hezbollah rocket launchers and artillerry to protect Israelis, regardless of the chance that Lebanese civilians may die.

3) Then when Israel acts in self-defense and bombs a Hezbollah target, civilian casualties will be almost certain and therefore massive amounts of out-of-context propaganda - that would inaccurately depict Israel relentlessly and indiscriminately bombing civilians - would be spread throughout the world.

4) Israel would be accused wrongfully of committing war crimes, even though they were targeting Hezbollah, and the world would cease to support Israels justified military endeavors.

5) Since the Hezbollah forces and equipment were destroyed in civilian areas, Hezbollah had the luxury of claiming little to no casualties, and instead pretended that their fighters who were killed were just civilians and not Hezbollah fighters.

6) The eventual goal was to mislead and manipulate the sentiment of not only Arabs/Muslims, but to cause this misinformation to change the perception of the war by westerners and people who support Israel. Then, when the war is over, it would appear that Israel's entire operation was a mistake and a atrocious act of aggression, rather than the rational and justified act of defense.

But now, months after the conflict, Hezbollah is attempting to overthrowthe democratically elected Siniora Government of Lebanon. Hezbollah is widely suspected to have participated in a recent assassination against the Lebanese official Pierre Gemayel. And Hezbollah has called for the Hezbollah terrorist leaders to be given veto power in all Lebanese government processes, even though they have no constitutional right to do so as a minority political group.

This negates the claims by all the left-wing retards months ago that Hezbollah was only defending its country and its democracy. When now it becomes apparent among educated people that Hezbollah had intentionlly provoked a war with Israel in order to garner support and the foundation for a movement to claim Lebanon for Islam and to reinstate close ties with Islamic regimes such as Syria and Iran.

For more information read this, this , and this . Or just do some research.

[MortifiedPenguins]

Wouldn't it have been nice to post this a month ago, you know, when people actually cared more about the area.

[TheMason]

Cellar,

Not everyone who thinks the Israelis made a mistake in invading Lebanon is a left-wing nutjob who views the world through rose-colored Versace glasses...

I personally think that they fell into a trap set by Hezbollah, one in which the Israelis lost esteme in the international arena. Furthermore, it propelled the group's popularity in Lebanon and made it a more effective political force. Also, it was a boon for Hezbollah's recruiting efforts.

Finally, I do not think that Sharon would have invaded (I think he learned his lesson in the Army). Olmert however, I think had to prove how big of balls he had...

[Dash-Underscore-Dash]

Hezbollah sounds like hullabaloo, so they can't be that bad, right?

[cellardoor6]

At 12/5/06 09:20 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: Wouldn't it have been nice to post this a month ago, you know, when people actually cared more about the area.

No, I think its relevant now because Hezbollah is positioning itselt to topple the Lebanese government right now, the government that people said Hezbollah was defending.

At 12/5/06 09:20 PM, TheMason wrote:

I personally think that they fell into a trap set by Hezbollah, one in which the Israelis lost esteme in the international arena. Furthermore, it propelled the group's popularity in Lebanon and made it a more effective political force. Also, it was a boon for Hezbollah's recruiting efforts.

Yes but that is my point. Hezbollah started the conflict and used human shield tactics and other deceitful and atrocious acts to attain that. But people in the west were claiming that Hezbollah and Lebanon were an innocent victim and Israel was some evil invading force that was just randomly bombing every civilian they could.

I find it funny that so many westerners were crying bloody murder against the Israelis and defending Hezbollah and pretending they were some benevolent protector of human life and so forth. But now, only a few months later when evidence comes to the surface that Hezbollah was the party that was commiting war crimes and acting as the agressor, people dodge any criticism because 'its over' or something. People don't even want to report the facts because meanwhile, the damage that was done to Israelis reputation and the deception and propaganda is still being utilized against Israel.

Finally, I do not think that Sharon would have invaded (I think he learned his lesson in the Army). Olmert however, I think had to prove how big of balls he had...

I don't think Sharon would have invaded or retaliated immediately after the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. But once Hezbollah started launching rockets into Israel he certainly would have allowed the IDF to use any means necessary to neutralize the threat.

[packow]

Thank you for this post. Humanity has benefitted.

[TheMason]

At 12/5/06 10:08 PM, packow wrote: Thank you for this post. Humanity has benefitted.

You know, Cellar is starting to cool his ranting and then you have to come and troll him...

Maybe its karma, or maybe its that you're just a 16 yo kid...

[JoS]

What about the UN posts that Israel bombed? Was the UN using human shields too?

[Jose]

How many human shields were used by Hezbollah when Israel launched six missles at a power plant, knocking out power for 1.4 million people during the dead of summer?

[SolInvictus]

At 12/5/06 09:04 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: But anyone in their right mind will have realized that most of the civilian deaths that took place in Lebanon were not the Israeli military's fault, but that of Hezbollah, and many of the supposed civilian deaths were actually Hezbollah fighters themselves.

the problem is all PR. Hezbollah does some work for the the Lebanese, they are greatful. Hezbollah comes under attack, the grateful Lebanese are willing to risk their lives to protect them. Lebanese civillians die protecting Hezbollah and Hezbollah tells the Lebanese of the barbarism of the Israelis. outraged Lebanese see Hezbollah as their only hope against the Israelis, they protect them. so on and so forth ad nauseum.

[cellardoor6]

At 12/5/06 11:17 PM, Jose wrote: How many human shields were used by Hezbollah when Israel launched six missles at a power plant, knocking out power for 1.4 million people during the dead of summer?

Thats the dumbest fucking thing I've heard. Hezbollah intentionally targets Israeli civilians and intentionally endangers Lebanese civilians, and then you make a big deal out of Israeli destroying a power-plant that had strategic benefit to Hezbollah?

Imbecile.

[Jose]

At 12/6/06 01:03 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Imbecile.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was ok for Israel to commit war crimes.

My mistake.

[cellardoor6]

At 12/6/06 01:15 AM, Jose wrote:

At 12/6/06 01:03 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Imbecile.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was ok for Israel to commit war crimes.

My mistake.

How stupid can you possibly be?

Israel didn't commit a war crime by destroying a power plant. That is a completely legitimate thing to do in a time of war. Power plants generate electricity, electricity is used by the enemy, therefore destroying the power plant is not a war crime.

And don't pretend as if Lebanese people were greatly affected by that. I've been to Lebanon, my ancestors are from Lebanon. They can live just fine with no electricity for a while they live in the middle east. Hell, alot of Lebanese don't even have electricity to begin with.

And what, do you think Israel should have just decided not to do anything just because it might hurt some Lebanese people all while Hezbollah continues to enganger ISRAELIS? Israels obligation is to protect its people, they shouldn't allow their own citizens to die by not acting just because it might affect innocent people on the other side.

Israel commited no war crime. Hezbollah only used its own people as human shields in order to cause people like yourself to believe that they did.

Then you completely ignore the atrocious acts of Hezbollah that are ACTUALLY war crimes. If you call bombing a legitimate strategic target such as a power plant as a 'war crime' then I wonder what word you have to describe Hezbollah placing its rocket launchers less than 10 ft from civilian building? But i'm sure you'd just call it "defending Lebanon", considering your distorted perception of reality.

[Jose]

At 12/6/06 01:54 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 12/6/06 01:15 AM, Jose wrote:

At 12/6/06 01:03 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Imbecile.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was ok for Israel to commit war crimes.

My mistake.

How stupid can you possibly be?

Israel didn't commit a war crime by destroying a power plant. That is a completely legitimate thing to do in a time of war. Power plants generate electricity, electricity is used by the enemy, therefore destroying the power plant is not a war crime.

Aiming attacks at civilian objects is forbidden under International Humanitarian Law and is considered a war crime.

And don't pretend as if Lebanese people were greatly affected by that. I've been to Lebanon, my ancestors are from Lebanon. They can live just fine with no electricity for a while they live in the middle east. Hell, alot of Lebanese don't even have electricity to begin with.

The effects of the attack are apparent in all areas of life. As a result of the lack of electricity, the level of medical services provided by clinics and hospitals has declined significantly; most of the urban population receive only two or three hours of water a day; the sewage system is on the verge of collapse; many inhabitants' mobility has been severely restricted as a result of non-functioning elevators; and the lack of refrigeration has exposed many to the danger of food-poisoning. Small businesses reliant on a regular power supply have been badly affected. The hardship involved in living without a steady flow of electricity is exacerbated by the deep economic crisis

And what, do you think Israel should have just decided not to do anything just because it might hurt some Lebanese people all while Hezbollah continues to enganger ISRAELIS? Israels obligation is to protect its people, they shouldn't allow their own citizens to die by not acting just because it might affect innocent people on the other side.

Even if Israel reached the highly questionable conclusion that disrupting the supply of electricity might provide the Israeli army with a "definite military advantage," under the principle of proportionality, Israel was legally required to choose the action that would prove least harmful to the population.

Israel commited no war crime. Hezbollah only used its own people as human shields in order to cause people like yourself to believe that they did.

I've yet to see any proof that Hezbollah was using the power plant as a "human shield"

Then you completely ignore the atrocious acts of Hezbollah that are ACTUALLY war crimes. If you call bombing a legitimate strategic target such as a power plant as a 'war crime' then I wonder what word you have to describe Hezbollah placing its rocket launchers less than 10 ft from civilian building? But i'm sure you'd just call it "defending Lebanon", considering your distorted perception of reality.

I never said that Hezbollah hasn't commited war crimes or has highly questionable tactics, but you paint it like Israel doesn't have innocent blood on it's hands.

[MagnusTheRed]

Cellardoor, you are completely right on this matter. And those "civillian" buildings the quad launchers ect... were hidden in were probably totally occupied by Hezbollah fighters. I mean, would an innocent civillan stay in an apartment building that was being used as a base for Hezbollah terrorists? Or is it more likely they would go stay with a relative/friend for a while? Fuck, live on the street if you must. There is always smoewhere to go.

A sensible peroson wouldn't lodge with Hezbollah while Isreal is attacking them, unless they were with Hezbollah. Would you spend time around a military target in a warzone if you were a non-combatant? Doubtful.

[cellardoor6]

At 12/6/06 02:09 AM, Jose wrote:

At 12/6/06 01:54 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 12/6/06 01:15 AM, Jose wrote:

At 12/6/06 01:03 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:
Imbecile.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was ok for Israel to commit war crimes.

My mistake.

How stupid can you possibly be?

Israel didn't commit a war crime by destroying a power plant. That is a completely legitimate thing to do in a time of war. Power plants generate electricity, electricity is used by the enemy, therefore destroying the power plant is not a war crime.

Aiming attacks at civilian objects is forbidden under International Humanitarian Law and is considered a war crime.

You imbecile, Hezbollah used 'civilian objets' as military tools. Therefore Israel commited NO CRIME by attacking a power-plant. Thats WHAT YOU DO in a war. Since Hezbollah was too cowardly to ACTUALLY FIGHT Israeli forces in the open, Israel had to root them out and attack them were they were in order to defend ISRAELIS. If Hezbollah didn't cowardly use civilians and civilian buildings as cover then none of that would have happened.

Besides, you don't really know what you're talking about. Items of infrastructure such as factories, phone lines, and powerplants are completely legitimate targets under the Geneva Conventions. Specifically targeting CIVILIANS themselves for the purpose of killing innocent civilians is a war crime and is prohibited, but Israel didn't do that at all.

But Hezbollah ONLY targeted Israeli civilians and INTENTIONALLY endangered Lebanese civilians by using them as cover.

Therefore Hezbollah committed warcrimes, and Israel did not.

Its actually making me laugh how incredibly uninformed and pathetic you are.

The effects of the attack are apparent in all areas of life. As a result of the lack of electricity, the level of medical services provided by clinics and hospitals has declined significantly; most of the urban population receive only two or three hours of water a day; the sewage system is on the verge of collapse; many inhabitants' mobility has been severely restricted as a result of non-functioning elevators; and the lack of refrigeration has exposed many to the danger of food-poisoning. Small businesses reliant on a regular power supply have been badly affected. The hardship involved in living without a steady flow of electricity is exacerbated by the deep economic crisis

Yes that is what happens in war. That is why Hezbollah provoked the war in the first place because they knew it would bring damage to Lebanon and create out of context propaganda for them to utilize to brainwash and manipulate stupid people like YOU.

And what, do you think Israel should have just decided not to do anything just because it might hurt some Lebanese people all while Hezbollah continues to enganger ISRAELIS? Israels obligation is to protect its people, they shouldn't allow their own citizens to die by not acting just because it might affect innocent people on the other side.

Even if Israel reached the highly questionable conclusion that disrupting the supply of electricity might provide the Israeli army with a "definite military advantage," under the principle of proportionality, Israel was legally required to choose the action that would prove least harmful to the population.

That was the action that would be least harmful to the population. By destroying a source of electricity, Israel wouldn't have had to single as many sites across Lebanon for attack. This means that less civilians and less civilian buildings would be endangered.

But you still completely deny Israels right to defend itself. Its obligation is FIRST AND FOREMOST to protect its OWN FUCKING PEOPLE. Therefore they can use any method necessary to do so as long as their methods do not intentionally and meticulously go against rules of war, which they DIDN'T.

Meanwhile, Hezbollah routinely violates laws by ONLY attacking civilians, and ONLY using civilian infrastructure as their base of operations and ONLY fighting from civilian areas. Not ONCE did Hezbollah go out into the open to fight, the fought the whole war within civilian areas.

You're such an ignorant fool that you can't even see reality anymore. You completely ignore what REALLY happened, and criticize Israel for what any country in the world would do, and has a right to do when attacked by a TERRORIST organization.

Israel commited no war crime. Hezbollah only used its own people as human shields in order to cause people like yourself to believe that they did.

I've yet to see any proof that Hezbollah was using the power plant as a "human shield"

I didn't say that they used the powerplant as a human shield you dipshit. They DID however use civilian buildings as shields and if you watched the video that I posted at the begging of the topic, then did some fucking RESEARCH you would understand that Hezbollah REPEATEDLY used civilians as human shields, they actually never fought in the open once in the entire conflict.

The powerplant provided electricty to the Hezbollah fighters who are equipped with Iranian and Syrian supplied radar and anti-aircraft missiles. It also prevented them from communicating and coordinating rocket attacks.

Therefore Israel destroyed the powerplant early on to disrupt the enemy. This is completely allowed in rules of war, read a fucking book instead of allowing your emotional response to the media dictate your perception of the conflict.

I never said that Hezbollah hasn't commited war crimes or has highly questionable tactics, but you paint it like Israel doesn't have innocent blood on it's hands.

Israel may have been responsible for innocent deaths, but that they didn't intentionally target and kill civilians, Hezbollah INTENTIONALLY put Israel in a position where it had to endager innocents in order to protect its own people.

Therefore Israel is blameless and Hezbollah is to blame.

[bcdemon]

Although I don't agree with Hezbollah using human shields, you act like Israel has never done such a thing. Well, in 2005 the Supreme Court in Israel had to pass a law saying it was illegal for the Israeli army to use Palestinians as human shields when doing raids.

[KingCharles]

All I can say.....

.....Is this:

[cellardoor6]

At 12/6/06 02:33 AM, bcdemon wrote: Although I don't agree with Hezbollah using human shields, you act like Israel has never done such a thing. Well, in 2005 the Supreme Court in Israel had to pass a law saying it was illegal for the Israeli army to use Palestinians as human shields when doing raids.

Notice how they banned it...

Besides, using 'human shields' was just what BBC used to describe it. It wasn't comparable to actually surrounding yourself with civilians in order to protect yourself from enemy fire, or to intentionally endanger civilians for propaganda effect.

The Israeli practice was to use civilians in cooperation with them to coax militants into surrendering so that no armed engagement would take place. You are taking the situation way out of context.

And, that picture that you provided is completely out of context and wasn't even included in the article you linked to. NICE TRY JACKASS, for all you know that "palestinian'' on the Israeli vehicle could have just been playing on it inside of a safe zone in Israel.

What a clever propagandist you would make.

So according to you and the liberally biased BBC, when police use criminal's loved ones to coax them to surrender, they are just using them as human shields huh?

You're pathetic.

[lapis]

At 12/5/06 09:04 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: When now it becomes apparent among educated people that Hezbollah had intentionlly provoked a war with Israel in order to garner support and the foundation for a movement to claim Lebanon for Islam and to reinstate close ties with Islamic regimes such as Syria and Iran.

The first time I said something along those lines was in mid-July, so if it's only "now" becoming apparent to you, as an "educated person", that Hezbollah kidnapped the soldiers in order to (re)gain popularity with the common Lebanese then you should have paid some more attention to the situation in the early days of the conflict. The only twist you gave it was that the Hezbollah wanted to "claim Lebanon for Islam", and since they have Christian allies such as Michel Aoun (who is now publicly voicing his support for ousting the current anti-Syrian coalition) I'm pretty sure that claim is false. Even though the founding of an Islamic state was one of Hezbollah's initial goals Nasrallah has stated:

"We believe the requirement for an Islamic state is to have an overwhelming popular desire, and we're not talking about fifty percent plus one, but a large majority. And this is not available in Lebanon and probably never will be."

As for the the rest of your post, I agree with fenrus/MortifiedPenguins: if you had posted this in July or August it might have been interesting, now it's not. Hiding your fighters and weaponry amongst the civilian population is bad and causing a disproportionate amount of grief among the civilian population by targeting public utilities is bad and yada yada. It's not like the arguing back then was fun enough to warrant a complete repitition, and neither does the current attempt of Hezbollah and their allies to topple the Lebanese government. If anything, it should make those who supported a full-scale invasion wonder what Israel actually achieved by turning a terrorist attack into their sixth war. The Hezbollah are stronger than they've ever been.

[Slizor]

Since Hezbollah was too cowardly to ACTUALLY FIGHT Israeli forces in the open, Israel had to root them out and attack them were they were in order to defend ISRAELIS. If Hezbollah didn't cowardly use civilians and civilian buildings as cover then none of that would have happened.

Firstly, it is not a matter of cowardice for an out-gunned military force not to engage in direct war - especially when they have no air support. Secondly, it was Israel's squeamishness about losing soldiers that led to their limited ground incursion and extensive use of bombing raids. Please do not think that Israel had to use planes to attack Hezbollah.

But Hezbollah ONLY targeted Israeli civilians and INTENTIONALLY endangered Lebanese civilians by using them as cover.

I highly doubt they only targeted Israeli civilians...considering their past record. http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=3101

Hezbollah's missile campaign does make you wonder. It served no military purpose. It may have been an attempt to cause terror and force withdrawal, but the numbers killed were too low. Maybe it was a spectactular.

Therefore Hezbollah committed warcrimes, and Israel did not.

Israel was not forced to bomb Hezbollah, you omit that part.

Yes that is what happens in war. That is why Hezbollah provoked the war in the first place because they knew it would bring damage to Lebanon and create out of context propaganda for them to utilize to brainwash and manipulate stupid people like YOU.

Hezbollah did not provoke the war. Their action provoked the Israelis in to starting the war, but they did not provoke the war. This is because there is only a small chance of the consequence of the kidnapping of two soldiers being war.

But you still completely deny Israels right to defend itself. Its obligation is FIRST AND FOREMOST to protect its OWN FUCKING PEOPLE.

I'm sure there's a good quote somewhere about justifying aggression in the name of defence.

You completely ignore what REALLY happened, and criticize Israel for what any country in the world would do, and has a right to do when attacked by a TERRORIST organization.

What is the difference between a terrorist organisation and state?

then did some fucking RESEARCH you would understand that Hezbollah REPEATEDLY used civilians as human shields, they actually never fought in the open once in the entire conflict.

That's because they are rational actors. It would be just stupid to fight in the open.

Israel may have been responsible for innocent deaths, but that they didn't intentionally target and kill civilians, Hezbollah INTENTIONALLY put Israel in a position where it had to endager innocents in order to protect its own people.

Again, use of air power was not the only option.

[bcdemon]

At 12/6/06 02:47 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 12/6/06 02:33 AM, bcdemon wrote: Although I don't agree with Hezbollah using human shields, you act like Israel has never done such a thing. Well, in 2005 the Supreme Court in Israel had to pass a law saying it was illegal for the Israeli army to use Palestinians as human shields when doing raids.

Notice how they banned it...

They banned it because it goes against international law, and you noticed that they banned it JUST LAST YEAR.

Besides, using 'human shields' was just what BBC used to describe it. It wasn't comparable to actually surrounding yourself with civilians in order to protect yourself from enemy fire, or to intentionally endanger civilians for propaganda effect.

It wasn't just BBCs description, The guardian calls it that aswell. And so does Amnesty International. And it is comparable you tool. They use them (human shields) to search houses and buildings for bombs and gunmen.

The Israeli practice was to use civilians in cooperation with them to coax militants into surrendering so that no armed engagement would take place. You are taking the situation way out of context.

Cooperation? Are you fucking insane or just dumb? An Israeli soldier even testified that "No civilian would refuse a 'request' presented to him at 0300 by a group of soldiers aiming their cocked rifles at him".

And, that picture that you provided is completely out of context and wasn't even included in the article you linked to. NICE TRY JACKASS, for all you know that "palestinian'' on the Israeli vehicle could have just been playing on it inside of a safe zone in Israel.

Actually, for all I know that little boy is 13-year-old Muhammed Badwan
.

What a clever propagandist you would make.

Only to an uninformed idiot like yourself.

So according to you and the liberally biased BBC, when police use criminal's loved ones to coax them to surrender, they are just using them as human shields huh?

Ahh here we go, scream bias on a source that discredits your favored Israelis. Human Rights groups call it that aswell you dipshit.

You're pathetic.

[D2Kvirus]

I'll just ask you now if you believe Hezbollah positioned their military equipment in the back of journalists' cars, or where UN observers were, well, observing prior to Israeli rockets obliterating them.

Besides, where's the thread marked "Israel terror tactics", such as destroying the bridges in and out of Beirut while pounding it with repeated rocket attacks?

[FeargusMcDuff]

So? That's a good tactic. You don't have to fight honourably In a war, just as long as you don't loose.

Hezbollah did brilliantly in their conflict with Israel, they gained huge support and showed the world how bad the Israely tactics were.

[JoS]

According to IDF the ISraelis killed about 500 Hezbollah fighters plus kileld about 49 Lebanese soliders. They also killed over 1100 Lebanese civilians. So for every military death they got they kileld 2 civilians.

IDF reported 119 of its troops were kileld in the operation, and 44 civilians were killed. So for every civilian Hezabollah killed they killed atleast 2 IDF personnel.

Lets not forget the fact Israel blew up a UN outpost, depsite receieinvg several warnings from them that their shells wee getting very close to them over a aperiod of sevral horus.

Why woudl they stay in an apartment building that Hezbollah fighters were also in if they knew it oculd be blown up? They didnt have places to go. Roads were unafe and bridges ocasionally destroyed. Many epopel did risk it and fled but many had no place to go or did not have the measn in which to leave.

I guess you could make a claim that a power plant was aiding Hezbollah and thats a reason to tka ei tout, but I fail to see how much help the power plant actually provides them Their rockects are portable, so are not locked into the power grid, they dont have radar or a computer system to provide them with assitance. Really the power grid is of no aid to them, other than for basic needs liek keeping teh water system running.

Last but not least Hezbollah did not try to start a war. They publically stated that they wanted to do a prisoner exchange, as IDF had done in the past with them, they did not expect Israel to launch a full out attack in response, they wanted to negotiate as the two parties had in the past.

[Visual]

I love it how you try to twist things cellar. But I love it more when you fail horribly.
As Iapis already pointed out, hezbollah are not the only ones peacefully protesting the government. More than half the christians of Lebanon (including me) are protesting with them.
More than 2 million people were present last friday to protest as opposed to barely 150 thousand of the pro-government.
Not to mention unarmed Shiite protesters were attacked and one was even killed. To which the Shiites replied by asking to remain calm and continue protesting peacefully.

[cellardoor6]

At 12/6/06 09:12 AM, bcdemon wrote:

At 12/6/06 02:47 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 12/6/06 02:33 AM, bcdemon wrote: Although I don't agree with Hezbollah using human shields, you act like Israel has never done such a thing. Well, in 2005 the Supreme Court in Israel had to pass a law saying it was illegal for the Israeli army to use Palestinians as human shields when doing raids.

Notice how they banned it...

They banned it because it goes against international law, and you noticed that they banned it JUST LAST YEAR.

They banned it because it violated international law. But it was not tantamount to actually LITERALLY using civilians as human shields. They used civilians in cooperation with them, and didn't intentionally bring fire onto civilian buildings and areas like Hezbollah and Hamas have been known to do, but what imbeciles like yourself disregard.

Only some people with an agenda would actually label it as 'using human shields'. Using civilians to negotiate with and provide recon is not using them as human shields.

Besides, using 'human shields' was just what BBC used to describe it. It wasn't comparable to actually surrounding yourself with civilians in order to protect yourself from enemy fire, or to intentionally endanger civilians for propaganda effect.

It wasn't just BBCs description, The guardian calls it that aswell.

Um the Guardian is also a ridiculously biased news organization. You might as well have referenced Al Jazeera.

And so does Amnesty International. And it is comparable you tool. They use them (human shields) to search houses and buildings for bombs and gunmen.

Thats not comparable you fucking imbecile. They used civilians in cooperation with them, they didn't use them PHYSICALLY as human shields intentionally in order to inflict civilian casualties and/or cause hesitation from enemy fighters from firing at them

Besides, why would Israel use human shields knowing full well that palestinian militias have absolutely no regard for their own people? You can't use human shield tactics against terrorists whos entire goal is to cause innocent casualties on both sides in order to blame it on Israel.

Cooperation? Are you fucking insane or just dumb? An Israeli soldier even testified that "No civilian would refuse a 'request' presented to him at 0300 by a group of soldiers aiming their cocked rifles at him".

One Israeli soldier happened to say that and that is his opinion. I'm sure there are thousands of other IDF that would disagree with him.

Yet even if that was the case, the Israelis didn't actually surround themselves with civilians and THEN ATTACK the enemy to provoke casualties like Hezbollah and Hamas have done. They didn't PHYSICALLY use civilians as human shields, only stupid liberals with an agenda label it as such.

And, that picture that you provided is completely out of context and wasn't even included in the article you linked to. NICE TRY JACKASS, for all you know that "palestinian'' on the Israeli vehicle could have just been playing on it inside of a safe zone in Israel.

Actually, for all I know that little boy is 13-year-old Muhammed Badwan

Oh you mean the Palestinian boy that was ACTUALLY shot by Palestinians intentionally to blame on Israel for media effect? You mean the boy that was shot with 7.62x39 rounds that are fired from AK-47s that the palestinians use, and not 5.56x45 NATO rounds that Israel uses?

Nice try you sad, delusional creature.

So according to you and the liberally biased BBC, when police use criminal's loved ones to coax them to surrender, they are just using them as human shields huh?

Ahh here we go, scream bias on a source that discredits your favored Israelis. Human Rights groups call it that aswell you dipshit.

Are you suggesting that the BBC and the Guardian aren't liberally biased? Get a fucking clue you pathetic, uneducated, misguided monkey.

Besides these "human rights groups" (which you didn't reference to) aren't legitimate sources of information either because they are privately owned and are just as prone to bias and distortion of information to carry out an agenda.

[bcdemon]

At 12/6/06 05:56 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: imbeciles, fucking imbecile,stupid liberals, delusional creature, pathetic, uneducated, misguided monkey

ROFL, you sound like a 14 year old kid, only a lot less mature.

Oh you mean the Palestinian boy that was ACTUALLY shot by Palestinians...

Muhammed Badwan wasn't shot by anyone.

[ShardStorm]

Look, NEITHER FREAKING SIDE IS HEROES. both of them have done bad things, both of them have killed civilians. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can stop having your pointless flame wars.

[cellardoor6]

At 12/6/06 07:10 PM, bcdemon wrote:

At 12/6/06 05:56 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: imbeciles, fucking imbecile,stupid liberals, delusional creature, pathetic, uneducated, misguided monkey

ROFL, you sound like a 14 year old kid, only a lot less mature.

I take that as a "you win cellardoor, because I can't refute your superior logic. Therefore I only use your name calling as a diversion to pretend that you didn't win the argument"

Oh you mean the Palestinian boy that was ACTUALLY shot by Palestinians...

Muhammed Badwan wasn't shot by anyone.

Well this one was.

Muhammad and Badwan are both common Arab names. In fact, its funny because my distant Lebanese family members last name is Badwan Al-Sharmad. Maybe if the site you linked to actually talked about it, it would have been a little bit more clear.