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At 11/29/06 02:48 PM, altanese-mistress wrote:

And I dearly hope no one says that the United States would attack China, or that China HAS to have better human rights to become a superpower.....

they are in all-manners a superior nation but they will never attack or over-take us nor will we over-take them

if they wanted they could call on all the debt we owe them and instantaneously we would become
the poorest country in the world our stock-market would crash we would have nothing and china would barely have to lift a finger

we will not attack them because they are what we stand on they are our support our base

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At 11/29/06 02:48 PM, altanese-mistress wrote: Thats right, China. With the world's fastest growing economy expected to surpass the United States by at least 2020, the world's largest military force, a fifth of the entire world's population, large influence over world politics, the third largest nuclear arsenal, and having the world addicted to it's cheap products, China is well on it's way to becoming a superpower.

Its banking system is too unstable to support an economic superpower and sustain its rapid growth. It already has the world's largest military force; but it does not have the reach to be a superpower. Also its booming economy also presents political problems in that the new Chinese middle class will eventually want more say politically as well as an alternative party to vote for and that will produce conflict with the Party.

It and the EU will eventually have the roles that the United States and Russia had in the 20th century, except without the Cold War part. It's a given that China has it's own problems to work out; mainly overpopulation and outdated military technologies; but they are already fixing these problems.

No, as the US declines in world power so does Western Civilization. The EU will become just as marginal (or maybe more so) than the US will as Eastern powers such as China, India, Japan and Korea will ascend in prominance.

Now some might say that China will ruin this by going on the warpath in Mongolia, Southeast Asia, Taiwan, and maybe even Korea and ruin it's chances, but they wouldn't; the People's Republic is well aware of how this would affect it's standing on the global stage. THough these places may be intigrated eventually, it won't be through war.

Puff, puff...give my friend. You must've been smoking something as you wrote those last five words...

And I dearly hope no one says that the United States would attack China, or that China HAS to have better human rights to become a superpower.....

1) A war between the US and China is unlikely. Both have too much to loose...but so did the European powers in 1914...
2) China cannot realize its full potential as long as it remains an authoritarian/free-market system...

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At 11/30/06 11:21 AM, altanese-mistress wrote:

Um no. Over half of Chinas economy revolves around US-related business, whereas China-related business only makes up fraction of the US economy. In fact, Canada is more important to the US in terms of yearly revenue than China is.

Oh dear Batman... You REALLY have no idea what you're talking about. Is Canada able to cripple the US economy by cutting off ties?

No, but neither is China. Canada is more important to the US economically than China is if you look at the numbers.

Does Canada house a very large portion of our 'overseas' industry?

Notice how you quote 'overseas', imbecile. Canada DOES however house a very large portion of our industry OUTSIDE of our country.

Um yeah. Most of their ground troops don't need education and aren't required to be educated to be conscripted.

Alright, I'm tired of your warrentless claims. Where did you here this bullcrap from?

Military Science 210. And its not "warrentless' (warrantless) its a commonly held fact among people who aren't completely dipshits like yourself.

Chinese military doctrine actually echoes that sentiment. They lack in capability and technology, therefore they make up for it in human wave tactics with expendable, uneducated peasant conscripts.

Thats somewhat true I'll admit, but you have to get it into your mind that at some point, quantity beats out quality, and the Chinese military outnumbers ours by 50-1.

Um NO IT DOESN'T you fucking MORON. China only has about 25% more personnel. But the US has much more Tanks, ships, aircraft and heavy equipment.

And once again, the number of troops means absolutely jackshit in modern warfare, especially when facing the US who has the most powerful and advanced equipment.

Chinas military would just be cannon fodder, and they only outnumber the US military by a little. But that means nothing.

Think of it this way: If you give every last American citizen military training and hardware, you'd have about as many soldiers as China.

Haha you just make up bullshit as you go. You just proved you deseve absolutely no credibility. According to this : The US has 34,813,023 available man power that are capable of military service but that is out of 300 million total citizens. And China has a current military of about 4,000,000 personnel.

So once again, you don't know what the FUCK you're talking about.

Now tell me how well hundreds of millions of poorly equipped and poorly trained men, women, and children will do against the modern militaries with superior air power, ground forces, and naval forces?

I think Iraq and Vietnam speek for themselves, and China would be hundreds of times worse.

Iraq and Vietnam weren't conventional wars. The US fought a counter-insurgency in both, and counter-insurgency is the most difficult military operation possible. But the only reason the US has/had difficulty in Iraq and vietnam is because the US doesn't use its full combat power for fear of civilian casualties.

If the entire population of China was fighting the US and it was a serious war of survival, the US would have no need to restrain itself and China would be obliterated after its military was obliterated in short order.

And once again, you've proven you know jackshit about anything involving warfare.

Forces that are 'spread too thin' could react and move other forces from around the world to trouble spots in 48 hours. It's usually the misguided politicians who use their own wacky judgement to come to the conclusion that the US military is spread too thin.

If this is true, why does America need so many foriegn bases? I mean, they don't need it, right?

Um the US has so many foreign bases because it has an oath to many countries to protect them. The Us has many foreign bases because its positioned strategically to be quicker, just because the US military is very agile in the first place doesn't mean it would intentionally put all its eggs in one basket and become vulnerable from a single nuclear strike.

The hell? An ICBM is an ICBM no matter what era it's from. The very definition of any ICBM is that it can be launched at any target in the world. This isn't even mentioning nukes deployed by planes and subs.

China only has 20 servicable ICBMS, all of which have been rusting and been kept in crappy condition for 40 years. And these are land based, the US has thousands of ICMBs and thousands of tactical nukes positioned in Asia already. Not to mention nuclear missiles on submarines, which china lacks.

Do some research before you say such bullshit.

most western countries can still function and recover without it.

Without China? Only barely, and Europe would fare a lot better than America would. Without the rest of the world? No nation could survive unless it were already third-world, and even then it would be even worse.

Dude, you have absolutely NO FUCKING CLUE what you're talking about EVER. Why don't you just kill yourself, you've proven that you're wrong in almost EVERYTHING you say.

For the very reason I just stated. Yet when the EU does have a strong enough central government, they will be able to function entirely independant of America.

No they wouldn't, the EU nations that are in NATO can't even send their troops to Afghanistan without the US transporting them, feeding them, giving them fuel, ammo, intelligence and vehicles. Hell, they can't even FIGHT without needing the US to provide airstrikes.

Um try by about 7% in yearly revenue.

In economics, that IS by miles.

No it isn't you uneducated moron. Especially when the growth rate in the US is twice as high as it is in the EU. The US will surpass the EU in GDP by 2008.

But the US is growing at a higher rate than the EU. At the end of 2008 the US will have a higher GDP.

Where did you hear this from.

You just can't accept facts can you? GO HERE and look at the forecast for 2007. The US surpasses the EU by 100 billion at the end of 2007.

Just as America is dependant upon them. All. Nations. Are. Dependant. And not just on America. Also: For their very existance? Europe, Japan, and Korea have much longer histories than America, beating us by a few mellinia.

Their ancient history means nothing you fucking imbecile. Europe and East Asia would be ruins right now if the US didn't either save them, defeat them and rebuild them, or didn't continue to protect them from other foes along the way.

Even Canada has a somewhat longer history

No it doesn't you fucking dipshit. Canada was formed over 100 years after the US. Canada didn't even exist as a indepedent nation officially until the 1960's.

South Korea and Japan are both US military dependents.

Here is the worst case scenerio for America: Japan and China finally get over their differences, and China steps in as Japan's new protector.

Are you a fucking retard? You're such a fucking delusional little imbecile you base your entire view on the world on half-baked theories that you just spout out randomly. Get a fucking clue!

Japan is a democracy, China is a socialist/communist dictatorship. You actually think the Japanese would consider China as their protector? Wow you are so incredibly stupid its not even funny anyway, I actually feel sorry for you because you obviously have some sort of mental problem.

You've made up so much complete bullshit this whole time, you lose, you have no credibility anymore Mr "China outnumbers us 50-1".

Kill yourself.

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At 11/30/06 10:11 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Um NO IT DOESN'T you fucking MORON. China only has about 25% more personnel. But the US has much more Tanks, ships, aircraft and heavy equipment.

That's no way to talk to a lady.

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At 11/30/06 10:14 PM, Dash-Underscore-Dash wrote:

At 11/30/06 10:11 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Um NO IT DOESN'T you fucking MORON. China only has about 25% more personnel. But the US has much more Tanks, ships, aircraft and heavy equipment.

That's no way to talk to a lady.

Sorry, I just can't tolerate complete stupidity.

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At 11/30/06 09:56 PM, Vrael wrote:

At 11/29/06 02:48 PM, altanese-mistress wrote:

they are in all-manners a superior nation but they will never attack or over-take us nor will we over-take them

How are they in all-manners a superior nation? Also, you are right we will not over-take them because you cannot over-take something you are ahead of...

if they wanted they could call on all the debt we owe them and instantaneously we would become
the poorest country in the world our stock-market would crash we would have nothing and china would barely have to lift a finger

Their economy would collapse if ours does...

we will not attack them because they are what we stand on they are our support our base

They are not our support base; rather we are one of the main fuels for their growth...

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At 11/30/06 11:22 PM, TheMason wrote:

How are they in all-manners a superior nation? Also, you are right we will not over-take them because you cannot over-take something you are ahead of...

lets see they are on the avg. and generally smarter than the avg. american ,they have a better economy than us in a sense since they wont re-evaulate the worth of their currency, larger population/army (i think not too sure) in general they are in a very ready state to pass us

if they wanted they could call on all the debt we owe them and instantaneously we would become
the poorest country in the world our stock-market would crash we would have nothing and china would barely have to lift a finger:

Their economy would collapse if ours does... not exactly we buy the most from them but they would still have plenty of money because they call on the debt we owe them of 23 trillion dollars and we instantaneoulsy lose everything because technically if we refuse certain things could happen...besides i never said it was likely to happen but they wouldnt collapse thats for sure but in the long-term it might affect them

we will not attack them because they are what we stand on they are our support our base

They are not our support base; rather we are one of the main fuels for their growth...

think again most of the basic things america needs clothing,food, shelter and many other things are made their and we buy it from them at a very very ridiculously low price

they are what makes us such a powerful nation if they didnt sell their wares at such low prices we would be nowhere near as high-up as we are, yet we are still the most in debt country in the world 43 trillion dollars to be exact

and yes while we do fuel their growth they fuel our growth as well, but I do understand it might be hard for you to comprehend

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If China called in the debt we owe them, wed just tell them to fuck off, or hand them a bill for saving their ass from Japan in WW2. Far more Chinese citizens than Jews died.

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At 11/30/06 11:34 PM, Vrael wrote:

At 11/30/06 11:22 PM, TheMason wrote:

lets see they are on the avg. and generally smarter than the avg. american ,they have a better economy than us in a sense since they wont re-evaulate the worth of their currency, larger population/army (i think not too sure) in general they are in a very ready state to pass us

Not really smarter; comparing K-12 education between the US and other countries suffers from several methodological problems.
Secondly, we have a better secondary education system than they.

They peg their currency to the US dollar.

They may have a quantitavely better militaary; but not a qualitatively better military. Their newest fighter is on par with our oldes F-16s. They also do not have a supercarrier capability.

Their economy would collapse if ours does... not exactly we buy the most from them but they would still have plenty of money because they call on the debt we owe them of 23 trillion dollars and we instantaneoulsy lose everything because technically if we refuse certain things could happen...besides i never said it was likely to happen but they wouldnt collapse thats for sure but in the long-term it might affect them

It would screw them in the short term. Also the debt you point out is public (ie: government), however private investment in China is huge. Devastating the US economically would have immediate effects on the Chinese economy. Especially when you consider its banking infrastructure is quite inefficient.

think again most of the basic things america needs clothing,food, shelter and many other things are made their and we buy it from them at a very very ridiculously low price

they are what makes us such a powerful nation if they didnt sell their wares at such low prices we would be nowhere near as high-up as we are, yet we are still the most in debt country in the world 43 trillion dollars to be exact

First of all, studies have shown that the cost of shipping and productivity involved with importing reduces the profit of having our goods produced overseas. For example, an American worker may make more an hour than a Chinese worker; however the American will produce more product per hour. Also, the fashion industry has found that by producing products domestically allows them to respond faster to changes in fashion trends.

Food: NO we do not import much, if any, from China or elsewhere. In fact we feed them more than they feed us.

Shelter: NO again...much of this country's building materials are domestically produced.

and yes while we do fuel their growth they fuel our growth as well, but I do understand it might be hard for you to comprehend

<a rrogance>It is not really too hard for me to understand the complexities of international economics. Afterall I do have a graduate degree in International Relations. And I had to take more than one graduate level courses on international economics, as well as globalization, to earn said degree. Did I mention I did my graduate studies in Asia, where I lived for two years? But you're right, academic creditials aside I must lack the capacity to understand macro/international economics that you as a 18 yo freshman obviously possess. Can you ever forgive me for trying to correct you?</arrogance>

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At 12/1/06 12:10 AM, TheMason wrote:

<a rrogance>It is not really too hard for me to understand the complexities of international economics. Afterall I do have a graduate degree in International Relations. And I had to take more than one graduate level courses on international economics, as well as globalization, to earn said degree. Did I mention I did my graduate studies in Asia, where I lived for two years? But you're right, academic creditials aside I must lack the capacity to understand macro/international economics that you as a 18 yo freshman obviously possess. Can you ever forgive me for trying to correct you?</arrogance>

bah i suppose i lose but neither gave proof but your older however it could be partially opinion as well and i know i dont know everything thats what makes life great still stuff to learn

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At 11/30/06 11:34 PM, Vrael wrote:

lets see they are on the avg. and generally smarter than the avg. american

Smarter? No. Higher IQ, yes. But then again their average IQ is only 2 pts higher than in the US. Which really means nothing in absolute terms, especially considering that the Chinese that their government allowed to be tested were picked by their government.

they have a better economy than us in a sense since they wont re-evaulate the worth of their currency

They peg their value to the US dollar. But they MANIPULATE their currency to help their economy, this isn't a sign of a 'better economy' its a sign of a corrupt government that doesn't allow its currency to fluctuate like honest, open countries like the US do.

larger population/army (i think not too sure) in general they are in a very ready state to pass us

A big army means absolutely jackshit in a modern war. Their military is primitive and lacks any of the global capabilities that the US has. China is WAY, WAY behind the US in technology. The US can project force anywhere in the world in days, China can't even operate outside of its border for more than a few weeks.

Their economy would collapse if ours does... not exactly we buy the most from them but they would still have plenty of money because they call on the debt we owe them of 23 trillion

What the fuck is with people just making up complete fucking lies as they go along?

The US doesn't OWE China any money. China just buys our reserves even though the US happens to have a defecit. This means they BUY our debt, we don't actually borrow money from China and promise to pay them back you fucking dipshit.

And where did you get this '23 trillion' figure, obviously you pulled it out of your ass.

The US total debt is only 8.8 trillion, which is only 64% of our yearly income. Almost every other major economic power has more debt than the US when compared to the money they make. In fact, alot of well-to-do countries have debt that is many times more their national yearly GDP.

think again most of the basic things america needs clothing,food, shelter and many other things are made their and we buy it from them at a very very ridiculously low price

Clothing? Yes. Food? NO! Shelter? NO!

That doesn't really mean anything. You love to lie in order to prove your point.

they are what makes us such a powerful nation if they didnt sell their wares at such low prices we would be nowhere near as high-up as we are, yet we are still the most in debt country in the world 43 trillion dollars to be exact

LIE, LIE, LIE. Once again you fucking lie to prove your stupid points that are all fucking false.

The US has the largest debt in the world only because it has the LARGEST ECONOMY. The US is ranked 37th in the list of countries with the highest debt in relation to their income.

And US debt is only $8.8 trillion you lying retared. You said "43 trillion dollars to be exact"

You pathetic, pathological lying freak.

and yes while we do fuel their growth they fuel our growth as well, but I do understand it might be hard for you to comprehend

Too bad you can't even comprehend reality because everything you say is a complete and utter lie.

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At 12/1/06 12:17 AM, Vrael wrote:

At 12/1/06 12:10 AM, TheMason wrote:

bah i suppose i lose but neither gave proof but your older however it could be partially opinion as well and i know i dont know everything thats what makes life great still stuff to learn

Dude,

It's not so much that I'm older, I've been studying poly sci for a long time now. I'm sorry that I had to get all arrogant and everything; but it is not advisable to tell someone whose background you are not familiar with, that they cannot comprehend your argument. Just because they disagree with you, does not mean they are less credible on the issue than you are.

A couple of months ago the magazine Foreign Policy had a rather large and good article concerning the banking infrastructure of China and how unstable it was. March 2006 I think.

Foreign Affairs has also done several articles on the subject of China within the last year.

Also, I did present some examples from my intl economics 602 course (ie how American companies close the gap between the cost of production overseas vs domestic). That is one of the benefits of a graduate degree; you do not have to source everything...

Finally, The Economist is also another good periodical for you to read to get up to speed on such things.

I hope this helps with school!

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At 12/1/06 12:39 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 11/30/06 11:34 PM, Vrael wrote:

A big army means absolutely jackshit in a modern war. Their military is primitive and lacks any of the global capabilities that the US has. China is WAY, WAY behind the US in technology. The US can project force anywhere in the world in days, China can't even operate outside of its border for more than a few weeks.

What the fuck is with people just making up complete fucking lies as they go along?

Dude, play nice. He's a freshman learning new things and probably being exposed to much more than he was in HS. He's trying to process information, combine this with the arrogance of youth. Give him space. He'll learn as he gets more poly sci/econ classes under his belt.

The US doesn't OWE China any money. China just buys our reserves even though the US happens to have a defecit. This means they BUY our debt, we don't actually borrow money from China and promise to pay them back you fucking dipshit.

Actually, we do OWE China money. That is the point of one country buying debt. Sure they were not the original debtors; but they become debtors regardless. YOU are wrong here Cellardoor.

That doesn't really mean anything. You love to lie in order to prove your point.

LIE, LIE, LIE. Once again you fucking lie to prove your stupid points that are all fucking false.

The US has the largest debt in the world only because it has the LARGEST ECONOMY. The US is ranked 37th in the list of countries with the highest debt in relation to their income.

You pathetic, pathological lying freak.

Cellar, you do not have to be abusive to prove your point. You turn people off from what you say. While I agree with you on many points, I cannot stand to read your posts because of how abusive you are. This kid may not be lying, he could be basing his opinions off of false information. You call him names and correct him; do you think he'll really pay attention to you?

Too bad you can't even comprehend reality because everything you say is a complete and utter lie.

Dude,

He was aiming that statement at me, and as you can tell I can more than defend myself. Much more effectively I might add. I also did it by demontsrating that I am qualified to correct him. Yes I did it in a kindof asshole way; but it was appropriate to how he ended the previous post.

Again, I do not think he was lying. I think he was passing on bad information...

Just chill out and people will take you more seriously and maybe even listen to you on some things.

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A big army means absolutely jackshit in a modern war. Their military is primitive and lacks any of the global capabilities that the US has. China is WAY, WAY behind the US in technology. The US can project force anywhere in the world in days, China can't even operate outside of its border for more than a few weeks.

Hmmm....

A large army is a great show of force and a way to maintain a large influence throughout the world. It does have SOME use, otherwise our own army wouldn't be so large, especially for the amount of fighting over the past 4 decades we've done.........

China is also steadily catching up. They have recognized the bulkiness of their military and are cutting back for a more deployable and mobile fighting force.

And depending on what type of warfare they wage, the Chinese could certainly operate outside their borders for as long as they wished.........or as long as the area they're in has resources for them to utilize.........

A good example comes in the form of stealth, that awesome technology with the US on top. We have complete stealth fighters/bombers. Our closest allies, China, and Russia are developing/developed stealth capabilities. They will have semi-stealth, I think the term is "reduced radar detection" or "reduced radar cross section" or some shit like that......

Ahh, here we go!

Found a page!

http://www.lowobservable.com/Protos.htm

No clue as to its accuracy, or up-to-date status, but you get the idea.

Information moves at an alarming speed, which is why the US pays so much to be on the BLEEDING edge of military technology. We've read our history books, we know what happens when a military remains almost completely unchanged in any way for 350 years.....coughROMANLEGIONScough...... ;)

While it may appear that China and other nations are left in the dust militarily, it wouldn't take much for them to catch up. 10-25 years tops, with us slacking (I really don't like the arguments of the people who say the F-22 was a waste of money....), and pretty soon China, Russia, Britain, or even Israel becomes the new "World Police".........

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No, as the US declines in world power so does Western Civilization. The EU will become just as marginal (or maybe more so) than the US will as Eastern powers such as China, India, Japan and Korea will ascend in prominance.

Au-contraire my dear Mason. Japan is in a recession, and their economy isn't what it once was (as incredible as it still is, however). Now, that may not mean much, because our own nation goes through booms and recessions about as often as weather changes, but Japan's government and indeed, society in general, are uber-conservative.

There are a few things goin on in Japan right now that have their knickers all in a bunch:

Aging population. The average age has been steadily increasing, for various reasons. There are now more people above 65 in Japan than people under, meaning their population will be steadily decreasing.

Foreign workers. Most Japanese are against foreigners, and much like some US citizens, feel as if they're coming to Japan to "take their jobs". The problem is that the aging population and lack of youth in Japan taking low-income jobs means there's a vast shortage of labor (one of reasons for their economic recession).

They have something called the "three D's" or "three K's", depending on language: Dirty, Dangerous, Difficult.

These are the low end, manual labor jobs that typical Japanese have no desire to do. Thus, there is a large variety of foreign workers coming to Japan to do these jobs. This is almost equivalent to the role of Mexicans and other South American/ Central American peoples to the US.

Brazilians and Peruvians make up most of the foreign workers, but it's still not enough. And their treatment in a very conservative "homogenous" society is not welcomed. Hence, the economy worsens.

Japan's gonna be undergoing some drastic changes over the next 50 years, and I highly doubt it will be on the up-and-up as a greater world power.......

Anthro 202: Minorities in Japan. U of M Anthro Dept. info there......
Because of it's nature, and the content and sources we read, we the students have effectively renamed the course "How much the Japanese are Racist".....(although that's a one-sided and extremely biased view, it's teh funneh ;) )

If you want some good sources:
North Koreans in Japan by Sonia Ryang
San'ya Blues by Edward Fowler

2 really good books that highlight some of the issues listed above.

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At 11/30/06 10:11 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: No, but neither is China. Canada is more important to the US economically than China is if you look at the numbers.

Yes, we owe Canada hundreds of billions in trade deficiet alone...
http://www.inboundlogistics.com/articles/glob al/global0206.shtml

Notice how you quote 'overseas', imbecile. Canada DOES however house a very large portion of our industry OUTSIDE of our country.

Oh really?
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/ 03_05/b3818001.htm
http://www.cata.ca/Media_and_Events/Press_Rel eases/cata_pr07280401.html
And I quoted 'overseas' for the very reason that they aren't over any sea. We call industry in Latin America 'overseas' but they can be easily reached by land.

Military Science 210.

No suprise there.....

And its not "warrentless' (warrantless) its a commonly held fact among people who aren't completely dipshits like yourself.

Care to back up this 'fact' ?

Um NO IT DOESN'T you fucking MORON.

All these insults only lessen the impact of your points, you know

And once again, the number of troops means absolutely jackshit in modern warfare, especially when facing the US who has the most powerful and advanced equipment.

At a certain point though, quantity beats out quality. And if you give in 10-20 years, then even their quality will beat out ours. Ans all that airpower? China has a huge number of some of the best SAM systems in the world, not to mention some of the best fighters. Sure, not as good as the United States, but still damn good enough to prove a big challenge.

Chinas military would just be cannon fodder, and they only outnumber the US military by a little. But that means nothing.

And just think of how much larger it would be in the unlikely need for conscription.

Haha you just make up bullshit as you go. You just proved you deseve absolutely no credibility.

And yet you do? Someone whom backs up claims with insults instead of references?

The US has 34,813,023 available man power

And China has over 300,000,000 potential troops if they conscripted. Thus: Every US citizen.

The US fought a counter-insurgency in both, and counter-insurgency is the most difficult military operation possible.

And if in some bizarro world the United States kicked the PLA's ass with little effort, just think of the over 1.313 billion pissed off chinese with basic military training.

And yes, America threw everything it had at Vietnam, including the bulk of it's airforce. We were on the verge of nuking Ho Chi Minh City at one point.

China would be obliterated after its military was obliterated in short order.

You'd need to do nothing short of turning China into a radioactive crater.

And once again, you've proven you know jackshit about anything involving warfare.

Once again YOU have proven that you don't know how to carry on a civil conversation.

Um the US has so many foreign bases because it has an oath to many countries to protect them.

Germany has wanted America to leave ever since the Fall of the Wall, for one example.

China only has 20 servicable ICBMS, all of which have been rusting and been kept in crappy condition for 40 years.

Do you honestly believe that any nation in the world would allow their nuclear arsenal to be kept in such condition? Even Pakistan keeps it's nuclear arsenal up-to-date for the most part.

And these are land based, the US has thousands of ICMBs and thousands of tactical nukes positioned in Asia already.

None of those nukes would EVER be used save a world-wide thermonuclear war.

Dude, you have absolutely NO FUCKING CLUE what you're talking about EVER. Why don't you just kill yourself, you've proven that you're wrong in almost EVERYTHING you say.

Did you even begin to counter my point, or did you just spew more insults that have nothing to do with the argument at hand?

No they wouldn't, the EU nations that are in NATO can't even send their troops to Afghanistan without the US transporting them, feeding them, giving them fuel, ammo, intelligence and vehicles. Hell, they can't even FIGHT without needing the US to provide airstrikes.

And with a stronger central government to unify the military forces of Europe, that would change. The only reason America's military is able to function is because the armies of each state are controlled by the federal government, specifically the Pentagon.

Especially when the growth rate in the US is twice as high as it is in the EU.

TWICE as high? Thats utter bull.

You just can't accept facts can you? GO HERE and look at the forecast for 2007. The US surpasses the EU by 100 billion at the end of 2007.

And that same link projects China growing MUCH faster than both the US and the EU.

Europe and East Asia would be ruins right now if the US didn't either save them, defeat them and rebuild them, or didn't continue to protect them from other foes along the way.

I really hope you aren't talking about the World Wars. Are you?

Canada was formed over 100 years after the US. Canada didn't even exist as a indepedent nation officially until the 1960's.

I said that I included it's colonial history.

Are you a fucking retard? You're such a fucking delusional little imbecile you base your entire view on the world on half-baked theories that you just spout out randomly. Get a fucking clue!

Stop spouting random insults, and start actually BACKING UP your claims.

Japan is a democracy, China is a socialist/communist dictatorship. You actually think the Japanese would consider China as their protector?

Yes. America has helped countless genocidal maniacs whom also happened to be anti-communist. America even trained Osama Bin Laden and his forces as well as sending him millions in aid. We even helped somewhat to put Saddam in power. I could go on all day with this.

And America aside, I doubt that the Japanese Diet would care if China were as bad as Nazi Germany (mostly because Eastern nations don't have a problem with Nazis)

Wow you are so incredibly stupid its not even funny anyway, I actually feel sorry for you because you obviously have some sort of mental problem.

Why do you feel the need to constantly barrage people with childesh insults?

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At 12/1/06 01:37 AM, Imperator wrote: Au-contraire my dear Mason. Japan is in a recession, and their economy isn't what it once was (as incredible as it still is, however). Now, that may not mean much, because our own nation goes through booms and recessions about as often as weather changes, but Japan's government and indeed, society in general, are uber-conservative.

I never said the ascent of the East would be driven by Japan. I actually think Korea will be more dynamic than Japan (especially if North and South would unify). The real driving factor, I feel, will be India then China then Korea then Japan...

I don't really have any source other than a composite of what I've read as well as what I've observed.

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At 11/30/06 04:39 PM, Dash-Underscore-Dash wrote: The World Fact Book says China has 10% below the poverty line.

Thats stupid, It says the UK has 17% of the population below the poverty line and the USA has 12% below the poverty line

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At 12/1/06 12:39 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: They peg their value to the US dollar. But they MANIPULATE their currency to help their economy, this isn't a sign of a 'better economy' its a sign of a corrupt government that doesn't allow its currency to fluctuate like honest, open countries like the US do.

I've told you, manipulating currency is not corrupt, and it's perfectly reasonable.

The US doesn't OWE China any money. China just buys our reserves even though the US happens to have a defecit. This means they BUY our debt, we don't actually borrow money from China and promise to pay them back you fucking dipshit.

It's not a direct loan, but having a certificate that says the US must pay interest and then the total amount of money sounds like a loan to me, and it's actually called sovereign debt. If you don't want to call it debt, fine.

The US total debt is only 8.8 trillion, which is only 64% of our yearly income. Almost every other major economic power has more debt than the US when compared to the money they make. In fact, alot of well-to-do countries have debt that is many times more their national yearly GDP.

Yes, you're right on the figures. It is a bit high, but that's my opinion. Many developed countries are around that figure, and, if I'm not mistaken, Japan has the biggest debt in relation to its GDP (150%).

Oh, take it easy, no need to insult people.

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At 12/1/06 09:51 AM, Der-Lowe wrote:

At 12/1/06 12:39 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

I've told you, manipulating currency is not corrupt, and it's perfectly reasonable.

I agree, manipulating currency is not corrupt. In fact every country does it. However, too much manipulation of currency is an indicator of an inefficient government.

The US doesn't OWE China any money. China just buys our reserves even though the US happens to have a defecit. This means they BUY our debt, we don't actually borrow money from China and promise to pay them back you fucking dipshit.

It's not a direct loan, but having a certificate that says the US must pay interest and then the total amount of money sounds like a loan to me, and it's actually called sovereign debt. If you don't want to call it debt, fine.

No, don't let him off so easy! If my student loan or home mortgage is bought by an institution other than the one I made the original agreement with it is still a loan: EVEN THOUGH I DID NOT BORROW THE MONEY FROM THE NEW BANK!! I know that my example is on the micro-economic level; but it is the same principle. Cellar enjoys calling people names and being abusive in his posts; even when he's wrong.

Oh, take it easy, no need to insult people.

Hear, hear!

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At 12/1/06 01:14 AM, Imperator wrote: While it may appear that China and other nations are left in the dust militarily, it wouldn't take much for them to catch up. 10-25 years tops, with us slacking (I really don't like the arguments of the people who say the F-22 was a waste of money....),

Dude, as a former USAF maintainer: the F-22 is a waste of money and we selling our military's future to pay for it. China's newest fighter aircraft is on par with our Block 30 F-16s (early 1990s model). The US is currently flying Block 50 and Block 52 F-16s. If we apply improvements in avionics for the F-22 and JSF to the F-16 we could save alot of money from everything from R&D, production and pilot/maintainer training. This is money the USAF just does not have. We are cutting flying hours and manpower to pay for the Iraq war. We do not need to field anymore F-22s or the JSF when they are going to be obsolete in 5-10 years, being surpassed by the next generation of US aircraft.

Why spend the money when our near peer powers will only be catching up with our newest F-16s (the block 60s and 70s) when we'll be 1-2 generations of technology aghead...

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At 11/29/06 02:48 PM, altanese-mistress wrote: Thats right, China. With the world's fastest growing economy expected to ... [etc etc etc]

I think China will become a much Superpower than the whole Occident combined, mainly because Chinese people aren't whiners like the Occidentals.

No mattar how much the EU increases its economy, it wont be really a match for China. I have lived in Europe once before, and I had the impression that technology and advances in general are pretty much half-assed. I assume China has a more pro-active role, given that everything be buy comes from China. Even if life there sucks.

And certainly, China would beat Russia so badly right now it would not even be any fun. Russia is in a huge disorder, corruption, and combat unreadiness, it would simply be wiped out.

And the USA has been quickly falling behind in everything. Not quite the big nation it once was, mainly due to whiners and emos that now populate it (similar situation with EU).

If China becomes the Superpower, its not so much due to its rockage, but more like due to the Occidental suckage.

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At 11/29/06 04:56 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 11/29/06 04:19 PM, ReiperX wrote:

I'm surprised no one has said anything about Russia's booming economy as well, but that won't last long either simply cause I don't think they can supply oil long enough.

Or a population.

It's been going down since 1990.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_ Russia#Declining_population

And Russia has one of the highest incidences of HIV/AIDS among their people. Without proper campaigns or treatments, they are pretty much doomed.

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Now tell me how well hundreds of millions of poorly equipped and poorly trained men, women, : and children will do against the modern militaries with superior air power, ground forces, and : naval forces?

Chinese wouldn't do to well to say the least.

You know how you lose wars? When you get cocky. Probably the main danger would not come from their ground troops, since they cant teleporth into the USA. But China is probably developing tons of intercontinental rockets, secretly. Gee, even North Korea has that crap. Saddams Scuds back in 1991 were of Chinese make. China might still be able to put a ton of rockets in the air. You can win, but you will need balls to hit hard and heavy, and stop being so cocky.