Persia/Iran

[Tancrisism]

In my current opinion, I've been thinking that we should begin to refer "Iran" as Persia once again. The westerners referring to it as "Iran" seems to have somewhat deterred their ancient and vast culture and history. We tend to hold names very highly, and we associate the name Persia with the vast history of the Persian empire, one of the oldest and (previously) greatest empires. Now that we call it Iran, the culture of the Persians seems to have faded in the western mind, and has been replaced with this new "Iran", a name which to the unlearned mind seems to be just another average middle eastern country which rose up from the ground.

Sure, the Iranians call Persia Iran, and have for a long period of time, but the Germans call Germany "Deutschland", and the Greeks call Greece "Ellas", but we still refer to them as Germany and Greece, respectively.

Thoughts?

[cellardoor6]

Yeah and Iranians call America "the Great Satan", so who big fucking deal.

Besides, ancient Persia was much larger than present-day Iran, but Iran was just the center of it and the seat of power.

So according to your thinking, we should be calling Turks "Ottomans" because their native land happened to be the seat of the Ottoman Empire.

[Tancrisism]

At 11/27/06 09:39 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Yeah and Iranians call America "the Great Satan", so who big fucking deal.

I'm not saying I support the Iranians.

Besides, ancient Persia was much larger than present-day Iran, but Iran was just the center of it and the seat of power.

The ancient Persia gained and shrank in size depending on what the occasion was, but modern Iran and Persia are synonymous. It's only recent that we've begun calling them Iranians.

So according to your thinking, we should be calling Turks "Ottomans" because their native land happened to be the seat of the Ottoman Empire.

That doesn't really fit or coincide with my thinking, since the Ottoman Empire fell. The Ottoman Empire was the empire of Turkish people. They were still Turkish, even when it was considerred the Ottoman Empire. The Iranians are still Persians, and the Persians are still Iranians. The country of Persia hasn't fallen to the extent that the Ottoman Empire did, we merely changed our name for it to the one they call themselves. Like I said, Persia and Iran are synonymous. Iran is Persia just like "der Deutschland" is Germany. Turkey is no longer the Ottoman Empire.

[cellardoor6]

At 11/27/06 10:19 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 11/27/06 09:39 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Yeah and Iranians call America "the Great Satan", so who big fucking deal.

I'm not saying I support the Iranians.

I didn't say that you were. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what you call a country.

Besides, ancient Persia was much larger than present-day Iran, but Iran was just the center of it and the seat of power.

The ancient Persia gained and shrank in size depending on what the occasion was, but modern Iran and Persia are synonymous. It's only recent that we've begun calling them Iranians.

So according to your thinking, we should be calling Turks "Ottomans" because their native land happened to be the seat of the Ottoman Empire.

That doesn't really fit or coincide with my thinking, since the Ottoman Empire fell.

The Persian empire fell as well.

The Ottoman Empire was the empire of Turkish people. They were still Turkish, even when it was considerred the Ottoman Empire.

Um, the Ottoman empire was composed of arabs, Europeans, AFricans of many different ethnic groups.

The Iranians are still Persians, and the Persians are still Iranians. The country of Persia hasn't fallen to the extent that the Ottoman Empire did

Um... (Ottoman empire)

Uh... (persian Empire during Sassanid dynasty)

Like I said, Persia and Iran are synonymous. Iran is Persia just like "der Deutschland" is Germany. Turkey is no longer the Ottoman Empire.

Iran is no longer the Persian Empire.

Your analogy makes absolutely no sense. Your confusion over the nomenclature is clouding your judgement.

[Tancrisism]

At 11/27/06 10:34 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 11/27/06 10:19 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 11/27/06 09:39 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Yeah and Iranians call America "the Great Satan", so who big fucking deal.

I'm not saying I support the Iranians.

I didn't say that you were. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what you call a country.

Besides, ancient Persia was much larger than present-day Iran, but Iran was just the center of it and the seat of power.

The ancient Persia gained and shrank in size depending on what the occasion was, but modern Iran and Persia are synonymous. It's only recent that we've begun calling them Iranians.

So according to your thinking, we should be calling Turks "Ottomans" because their native land happened to be the seat of the Ottoman Empire.

That doesn't really fit or coincide with my thinking, since the Ottoman Empire fell.

The Persian empire fell as well.

Right. Notice I didn't say empire.

The Ottoman Empire was the empire of Turkish people. They were still Turkish, even when it was considerred the Ottoman Empire.

Um, the Ottoman empire was composed of arabs, Europeans, AFricans of many different ethnic groups.

Alright, I'll give you that. I meant in their heartland they were Turkish.

The Iranians are still Persians, and the Persians are still Iranians. The country of Persia hasn't fallen to the extent that the Ottoman Empire did

Um... (Ottoman empire)

Yes yes.

Uh... (persian Empire during Sassanid dynasty)

Right. I'm not talking about the Persian Empire though I know that the Persian Empire of old fell to the same extent as the Ottomans. I'm talking about the good old country of Persia.

Like I said, Persia and Iran are synonymous. Iran is Persia just like "der Deutschland" is Germany. Turkey is no longer the Ottoman Empire.

Iran is no longer the Persian Empire.

I realize this. They are still Persia though.

Your analogy makes absolutely no sense. Your confusion over the nomenclature is clouding your judgement.

It appears that you are confused over the nomenclature, which would make it understandable that my analogy doesn't make sense. Persia isn't the Persian empire, it's the country we call Iran, and have since 1935. Here's a decent, small article to more accurately and coherently explain.

[cellardoor6]

At 11/27/06 10:47 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 11/27/06 10:34 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 11/27/06 10:19 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

That doesn't really fit or coincide with my thinking, since the Ottoman Empire fell.

The Persian empire fell as well.

Right. Notice I didn't say empire.

Notice how Persia was never really a singular country, it only became "Persia" as an empire. Then they kept the name as a nation in order to keep their pretige. In that case the Italians should maintain their identity as Romans, Turks as Ottomans, Germans as Holy Romans and so forth.

The Iranians are still Persians, and the Persians are still Iranians. The country of Persia hasn't fallen to the extent that the Ottoman Empire did

Um... (Ottoman empire)

Yes yes.

Uh... (persian Empire during Sassanid dynasty)

Right. I'm not talking about the Persian Empire though I know that the Persian Empire of old fell to the same extent as the Ottomans. I'm talking about the good old country of Persia.

There is no such thing as a country of Persia really. They just called themselves that in order to salvage their pride and the myth and lore of their ancestors.

Like I said, Persia and Iran are synonymous. Iran is Persia just like "der Deutschland" is Germany. Turkey is no longer the Ottoman Empire.

Iran is no longer the Persian Empire.

I realize this. They are still Persia though.

Um no they aren't. They only called themselves that. There are people in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other countries that call themselves Persians. But they really aren't because the Persian Empire doesn't exist anymore.

Your analogy makes absolutely no sense. Your confusion over the nomenclature is clouding your judgement.

It appears that you are confused over the nomenclature, which would make it understandable that my analogy doesn't make sense. Persia isn't the Persian empire, it's the country we call Iran, and have since 1935. Here's a decent, small article to more accurately and coherently explain.

Thats just a wikipedia article that describes the controversy of the Iran vs. Persia issue. It doesn't ever state that Iran is Persia, it just mentions that its international name was Persia. But this was just nomenclature.

Hell, Iranians don't even call it "Persia" they call it "Parsi". Lets also ignore the fact that "Persians" are actually an ethnic group in Iran who descended from the predominant people during the Persian empire. But Persians aren't the only ethnic group, they only make up 50% of the country. That means that the other ethnic groups (that are still iranians) cannot correctly be refered to as Persians.

That would be like calling Americans "Germans" because the predominant ancestory in the US is Ethnic German. Or lets call Australians "British" because their predominant ancestory is English and their nation was ( and technically is) still part of the British Empire, same goes for Canadians, New Zealanders, and South Africans.

[Tancrisism]

At 11/27/06 11:23 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Thats just a wikipedia article that describes the controversy of the Iran vs. Persia issue. It doesn't ever state that Iran is Persia, it just mentions that its international name was Persia. But this was just nomenclature.

Did you look at the article? In the very first paragraph it says, and I quote, "Persia is Iran, and Iran is Persia; they are simply two names for the same place."

Other than that you brought up some interesting points.

[fahrenheit]

At 11/27/06 11:40 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Did you look at the article?

Did you?
" The name "Persia" until 1935 was the "official" name of Iran in the world, but Persian people inside their country since the Sassanid period have called it "Iran" meaning "the land of Aryans", the older version of which had been "Aryânâm" (the genitive plural of the word Aryan, a cognate form of which is seen in "Airyanem Vaejah" ) as seen in ancient Persian texts. "

[zzzzd]

At 11/27/06 11:23 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

That would be like calling Americans "Germans" because the predominant ancestory in the US is Ethnic German. Or lets call Australians "British" because their predominant ancestory is English and their nation was ( and technically is) still part of the British Empire, same goes for Canadians, New Zealanders, and South Africans.

Australia, Canada, New zealand an south africa are not technically part of the British empire.
They Are as Independent as the US it's just there countries were peacfully givin independence and chose to keep the queen as there head of state.

Also british isn't used to define ancestory. It would either be English, Scottish or Welsh.
Other wise British is the Predominant ancestory in America followed by Germans an Irish

[Tancrisism]

At 11/27/06 11:44 PM, fahrenheit wrote: Did you?

In my first post I said:

At 11/27/06 08:31 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Sure, the Iranians call Persia Iran, and have for a long period of time, but the Germans call Germany "Deutschland", and the Greeks call Greece "Ellas", but we still refer to them as Germany and Greece, respectively.

So yes, I did.

[cellardoor6]

At 11/28/06 12:00 AM, zzzzd wrote:

At 11/27/06 11:23 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

That would be like calling Americans "Germans" because the predominant ancestory in the US is Ethnic German. Or lets call Australians "British" because their predominant ancestory is English and their nation was ( and technically is) still part of the British Empire, same goes for Canadians, New Zealanders, and South Africans.

Australia, Canada, New zealand an south africa are not technically part of the British empire.

Um... yeah they are. Australia, Canada , and New Zealand are commonwealth nations and their official head of state is the Queen Elizabeth II.

They Are as Independent as the US it's just there countries were peacfully givin independence and chose to keep the queen as there head of state.

They are still in the British commonwealth and are ceremonially (if not politically) under British rule.

Also british isn't used to define ancestory. It would either be English, Scottish or Welsh.

'Asian' is used to define ancestory, and last time I checked there are many different countries located in Asia.

But the point is that Iran is NOT Persia. Persia was an Empire, some people just allowed the name to linger in reference to what we call today "Iran".

So my point is if someone makes the habit of calling Iranians "Persians" then they might as well call Turks 'Ottomans' because they used to be part of the Ottoman Empire, we should call many Europeans 'Romans' because they were once part of the Roman empire. and Hell, we should even call Palestinians "Israelis" because where they live was once under Israelite rule.

Use your brain. Iranians are not Persians, just as much as I am not a "Chinookan" just because where I live happened to be the seat of power of the Chinook tribe. And a the US isn't called "Native American Land" just because some of our citizens have Native ancestory and where we live happened to be where they lived.

Another example: Mexicans don't call themselves Mayans even though Mayans were their ancestors and they live in what used to be the center of the Mayan Empire.

Therefore, Iran...is NOT Persia.

Case closed.

[fahrenheit]

At 11/28/06 12:14 AM, Tancrisism wrote: In my first post I said:
So yes, I did.

The westerners referring to it as "Iran" seems to have somewhat deterred their ancient and vast culture and history

Oh, I see.
I guess as westerners we also know better then them also to?

[Begoner]

Does it really matter? We can call Iran "Ooglebook" for all I care. However, the Iranians refer to their country as "Iran" and we should follow their example.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

pff Iranians call themselves perisans to make them sound tough even though that persia is nothing but a god forsakesn desert

[emmytee]

As long as I can call Americans "rebels" lol

[Draconias]

At 11/27/06 08:31 PM, Tancrisism wrote: In my current opinion, I've been thinking that we should begin to refer "Iran" as Persia once again. The westerners referring to it as "Iran" seems to have somewhat deterred their ancient and vast culture and history.

Ironically, Iran is the ancient name of that nation. At no point was it ever actually called Persia by its own population; Persia was only a well-known province within the empire which became the name through which Westerners knew Iran. Using the name Persia is considered an insult by the current Iranians, so it doesn't seem appropriate to call them that.

Now that we call it Iran, the culture of the Persians seems to have faded in the western mind, and has been replaced with this new "Iran", a name which to the unlearned mind seems to be just another average middle eastern country which rose up from the ground.

Iran went a long way to make sure "Persian" culture and history were destroyed with the newest radical regime. They burned most of the history books and did everything they could to eliminate their ties to the old empire. So yes, they are effectively an average Middle Eastern country at this point.

Sure, the Iranians call Persia Iran, and have for a long period of time, but the Germans call Germany "Deutschland", and the Greeks call Greece "Ellas", but we still refer to them as Germany and Greece, respectively.

Iran doesn't deserve the history is has behind it with the curent extremist that control the country. Maybe at a later date, after they stop acting like crazy fools, we should consider treating them with respect of any sort.

[SolInvictus]

At 11/27/06 10:34 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: I didn't say that you were. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what you call a country.

what if you call it Goat Molestation land?

and you thought they were pissed about 300!

[troubles1]

At 4/26/07 08:16 PM, emmytee wrote: As long as I can call Americans "rebels" lol

that is good and wile you are at it lets call Scotland England's BITCH. LOL
;
also if Iran refers to its country as Iran then why are we debating this?

[SolInvictus]

At 11/28/06 12:22 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: They are still in the British commonwealth and are ceremonially (if not politically) under British rule.

it has been cut down to just ceremonial (sort of like it is in England) since...probably WWII (don't quote me on that one though). we get to have an elderly lady on our money!

[SteveGuzzi]

At 11/27/06 08:31 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Thoughts?

"A rose by any other name is still a rose."

It doesn't matter what you call them.

[Battl3Mast3r]

Iran is the official name of the Islamic Republic... end of story. It doesn't go beyond that. They named themselves, once again end of story.

[Tancrisism]

At 4/27/07 01:59 AM, Battl3Mast3r wrote: Iran is the official name of the Islamic Republic... end of story. It doesn't go beyond that. They named themselves, once again end of story.

I have no idea why this topic was revived, as it was an impulsive thought and nothing more, but now to respond to your post.

Bundesrepublik Deutschland is the official name of the Federalist Republic, end of story.

At 4/26/07 11:55 PM, StephanosGnomon wrote:

At 11/27/06 08:31 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Thoughts?

"A rose by any other name is still a rose."

It doesn't matter what you call them.

If only that was true. We place such weight on names; perhaps it's a cultural thing, though more than likely it's not.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

and Iran is full of Barbarians.

[cellardoor6]

At 4/26/07 11:55 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 11/28/06 12:22 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: They are still in the British commonwealth and are ceremonially (if not politically) under British rule.

it has been cut down to just ceremonial (sort of like it is in England) since...probably WWII (don't quote me on that one though). we get to have an elderly lady on our money!

Still though, even if it's ceremonial it's still part of their constitution. That is my point, because according to the logic of the topic starter, if Iranians can be called Persians because their country was once part of the Persian Empire, then certainly Canadians and Australians should be called British since they are STILL technically part of the British Empire.

But the bottom lie is that it doesn't make sense to call Iranians "Persians" because present-day Iran is only a fraction of what once was the Persian Empire.

At 4/27/07 06:25 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: and Iran is full of Barbarians.

Um no it's not. In fact, Iranians are some of the most civilized, intelligent, and empathetic people in the world. Their government on the other hand is stuck in the dark ages, but there isn't much the Iranians themselves can do about that.

But it's much more convenient for imbeciles like you to just blanket an entire country as "Barbarians" so you can avoid thinking coherently and making distinctions between normal people and their governments. It probably hurts your brain too much to actually think objectively.

[SouthAsian]

At 4/27/07 07:01 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 4/26/07 11:55 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 11/28/06 12:22 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 4/27/07 06:25 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: and Iran is full of Barbarians.

Um no it's not. In fact, Iranians are some of the most civilized, intelligent, and empathetic people in the world. Their government on the other hand is stuck in the dark ages, but there isn't much the Iranians themselves can do about that.

But it's much more convenient for imbeciles like you to just blanket an entire country as "Barbarians" so you can avoid thinking coherently and making distinctions between normal people and their governments. It probably hurts your brain too much to actually think objectively.

Thankyou, that jackass needed to shutup already.

Actually Persia is Iran.Just like Saudi Arabia is called Arabia, they are Arab so they call their nation Arabia.We could call Iran Persia, it would make some sense considering that the Persians settled in what is now Iran for thousands of years and who developed and maintained that empire.

England is called England because the name means "Engle land" or Angle land eventually becomng England.The Anglo Saxons didnt originate from England they invaded it.

The Persians are the same way.Except they even originated from the Persian plateau, which is called Iran.It would make sense to call Iran Persia, for the ethnicity that resides there, and the history of the people there.

[emmytee]

At 4/26/07 11:50 PM, troubles1 wrote:

At 4/26/07 08:16 PM, emmytee wrote: As long as I can call Americans "rebels" lol

that is good and wile you are at it lets call Scotland England's BITCH. LOL
;
also if Iran refers to its country as Iran then why are we debating this?

Thats cool with me lol. I was born in england. I'm more of a colonist. I just keep the barbarians up here in order and take their wives on their wedding night and shit

[HighlyIllogical]

At 4/28/07 01:38 PM, Grammer wrote: We should call them whatever they want to be called, it doesn't really matter.

You're saying that we should call Germany "Deutchland," for example? Or Japan "Nippon"?

Why bother?

[seventy-one]

After that dam the government is building, its like they don't want (the government) to be called Persia. It seems Ahmadinejad and his cronies don't give a rat's ass about pre-Islamic Iran.

The people of Iran take pride in their history, but apparently the government doesn't.

(For those who don't know, they're building a dam that could destroy parts of Persopolis and other ancient treasures).

[HighlyIllogical]

And, clearly, the government doesn't care much for its own people, anyway.

[reviewer-general]

At 4/28/07 04:10 PM, Grammer wrote: On an unrelated note, I want to learn to speak German =]

Don't, it's fucking complicated. Trust me.