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At 4/5/03 01:54 AM, DarkCyrstal wrote: Isreal is bad. GIve the land back tot he rightful owners! Look at this map. It shows the unfairness of Isreal taking precious arab land.

Hahaha, that was great. You just redeemed yourself for all the dumb things you've ever said.

At 4/4/03 11:54 PM, Crack_Smoker wrote:

At 4/4/03 11:26 PM, NJDeadzone wrote:
How does this relate? The Palestinians refuse to coexist with Israel, that's their problem. Israel earned all of its land through wars of self-defense.

Israel earned its land? I couldn't disagree more. First they were given land which wasn't theirs, then they were armed to the teeth by the US and used it to brutalize peasants and extend their territory. I fail to see how Israel earned anything, unless you say that being America's puppet in the Middle East has "earned" them the land.

The Palestinians are treated like rejects from their religious brothers and unfortunately have to resort to primitive violence to get meager results, and then they play victim.

They don't have to play victim, they were screwed through and through. They are forced to resort to primitive violence, fortunately for the Israelis they aren't in that position since they have the newest and best military technology from the U.S. and can resort to "civilized" violence.

First of all yor wrong, the land that Israel took was taken during the Yom Kippor war in 1973 and yes it is called that. It was taken because they were attacked by Syria and Egypt along with the palestinians. Now if you are attacked by an adjacent country and you push them back you take the land. Thats what they were trying to do they want to take israel, but israel took them instead. And Israel is not some country with mud huts and camels running around. It is a highly technological country, and looks like a mini USA. A lot of the technology we have come from them also. I've been there, I've trained with the IDF (Israel Defence Force), I'm going to go back someday, and if they needed me over there I would go.

At 4/6/03 03:00 PM, panik wrote: First of all yor wrong, the land that Israel took was taken during the Yom Kippor war in 1973 and yes it is called that. It was taken because they were attacked by Syria and Egypt along with the palestinians. Now if you are attacked by an adjacent country and you push them back you take the land. Thats what they were trying to do they want to take israel, but israel took them instead. And Israel is not some country with mud huts and camels running around. It is a highly technological country, and looks like a mini USA. A lot of the technology we have come from them also. I've been there, I've trained with the IDF (Israel Defence Force), I'm going to go back someday, and if they needed me over there I would go.

the land was given to them by the US and UK becausre it was previously one of its colonies. this had the unfortunate problem that thjere were palastinians living there. now the UK and US in 1945 didnt care about that as they believed they owned the land. the palastinians thought differently.

and if you are attacked by a neighbouring country and you beat them then the UN decides what to do. you dont take a few bits of land because you beat them.

At 4/6/03 03:12 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: and if you are attacked by a neighbouring country and you beat them then the UN decides what to do. you dont take a few bits of land because you beat them.

So no spoils of war at all?

It is funny to see people who believe in the rather archaic idea of the seizing of territory.

At 4/6/03 03:27 PM, Nightshadeplus wrote:

At 4/6/03 03:12 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: and if you are attacked by a neighbouring country and you beat them then the UN decides what to do. you dont take a few bits of land because you beat them.

So no spoils of war at all?

you get compensation for all the damages they caused, if they attack you for no reason. but no, no spoils of war.

Well I don't necessary believe in taking land since that sorta thing can leave lots of hatred for years to come. Look at Germany and France. France was defeated and humilated by Germany in 1870-71 war. Germany took a very nice piece of land and France was left stinging in the horrible defeat. WWI came and went and France had its revenge and humilated Germany in a similiar way and took back their land. WWII came and went and Hitler humilated France and took France itself. It's an ugly cycle of blood and revenge. Luckily, the new France learned something and decided to become friends with West Germany. And today, the two countries still have a somewhat tight relationship.

At 4/6/03 03:34 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 4/6/03 03:27 PM, Nightshadeplus wrote:

you get compensation for all the damages they caused, if they attack you for no reason. but no, no spoils of war.

Than what is to stop them from doing it again, plus they had a damn good reason to take the golan heights.

As I said before, Israel has the right to defend itself. But I don't like the idea of siezing land in a war. However, Israel has returned most of the land that it siezed in those wars. They still have some of it (West Bank and Gaza Strip), but I'd bet that some of that will eventually be set aside for a Palestinian state.

At 4/6/03 03:33 PM, Slizor wrote: It is funny to see people who believe in the rather archaic idea of the seizing of territory.

Yeah, and we should just play "paintball" with them instead of fighting, right?

At 4/3/03 07:07 PM, panik wrote: 65 huh? Which 65? Like dont protect yourself from terriosts, or let people blow up buses of inocent civilians or give up because your jews, What are these broken resolutions. If I was Israel, yes that is how it is spelled not Isreal, I would say fuck the UN . The only country to help Israel is the US no one eles in the UN.

Perhaps people blow themselves up on busses out of desperation, because no one will listen to them any other way, but I guess you're right, Fuck the UN, I mean, it was only the UN who gave the Jews their country. I mean for god's sake. The holocaust was awful, but if we went giving land to every people who were ever opressed by another race, then we should appologize to the scottish, and the Irish, and most of the africans, cos africa as under european rule for a long time. So maybe because of apartheid, we should just arbitrarily give the South Africans whatever they want without considering the repercussions. The holocaust was an awful thing, but they need to get over themselves, it was 50 years ago, my generation, and my parents generation have no link to the holocaust, not even as allied troops during world war 2, so why does the world have to keep apologizing for something that will have been forgotten in 3 more generations. It happened, It's done, get over it.

At 4/7/03 12:57 AM, thenark wrote:
so why does the world have to keep apologizing for something that will have been forgotten in 3 more generations. It happened, It's done, get over it.

because there are still survivors of those horrible acts. Maybe it doesn't affect you as much as it severely affects Jews and others who were systematically destroyed in front of negligent eyes of the world.

At 4/7/03 12:57 AM, thenark wrote:

The holocaust was an awful thing, but they need to get over themselves, it was 50 years ago, my generation, and my parents generation have no link to the holocaust, not even as allied troops during world war 2, so why does the world have to keep apologizing for something that will have been forgotten in 3 more generations. It happened, It's done, get over it.

Hmm I wonder what else happened 50 years ago, oh yeah the creation of Isreal as a state...

At 4/4/03 04:18 PM, NEMESiSZ wrote: "If Palestine lays down her weapons there will be no more war, if Israel lays down her weapons there will be no more Israel."

Tell them like it is!

Right it doesn't matter. Fuck you Nark. My grandparents who are still alive survived the holocaust. It doesn't matter my ass. Just because you don't have a real life connection with an event doesn't mean that it does'nt matter. And the slaughter of 6,000,000 people is a big deal and its just a little hard to get over it.

The Facts are Israel was created in WWII, America gave them preferable treatment(which, ironically, was one of the three thing George Washington said not to do), the other nations suffered after a world war while America and Israel prospered. So they got Angry. They got suicidal. And then the terrorism and wars started- Because Israel had preferable treatment, and became successful because of it.

Who is to blame for the other nations being angry with the West and Israel?

At 4/6/03 03:53 PM, jimsween wrote: Than what is to stop them from doing it again, plus they had a damn good reason to take the golan heights.

the massive repurcussions and sanctions from the UN, plus the government will usually step down

At 4/7/03 03:24 PM, Jiperly wrote: ...ironically, was one of the three thing George Washington said not to do...

oh we've disobeyed him quite alot in the last century

At 4/4/03 04:37 PM, jimsween wrote: Argh... I just heard an Arab on the news say, why does America ally with Isreal but not Arab countries. Well duh... Wouldnt it be a conflict of an intrest if we allied and became friends with a dictatorship, there is not one other country in the middle east that is a democracy, poor Egypt wants to be but thats a different topic.

*ahem* there's a little country in the middle-east called "qatar" wich is having democracy and everything(and they work with USA, but i dont think ALL arab countries are having dictatorships) and they have even women rights(suprise!) since the new selected habu-something(sorry i forgot the world) saw that the most richest and developed countries are having women rights and democracy and everything.