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If an anti christian is someone who is against religion and so forth. Then an anti-anti christian would be someone who is aginst the person who is aginst christians who is aginst christians. So an anti-anti-anti christian would be someone who is aginst the anti-anti christian who is aginst the anti christian who is aginst christians basically making them an anti christian.

Jesus was very smelly. So I hate him

At 11/24/06 12:04 AM, airraid81 wrote: Whatever. The point is that Jesus didn't encourage hate, and the bitch who started this thread seems to be doing just that. Why should you care so much about people who are different religions that you as long as they are good people?

Thanks for calling me a bitch.

The point of the thread was this.

Anti Christians and anti religon-istic individuals constantly bring up the argument, look at all the damage that christianity caused. What's even worse, is the double standard. Islamic Extremists who aren't suposedly muhammeds followers, should not be used as an excuse to bash islam. (And i respect that) But Christian Extremists (And if you've ever heard about Gnostic Christians, And quakers, you'd know that not all early christians were puritans) who aparently ARE following christs word (Which was to love others as you love yourself) are the aparent "Represenation" of how christian faith is evil.

You Encompas all christians into the category of corrupt, well first off, to be corrupt, you need to have something to corrupt, you have to have some sort of power, so we can take women out of the picture. Also, you need to know that what your doing is wrong, that takes ALOT of people out of the picture. Few muslim extremists today are probably just what would be refered to as "Villans" who are mearly trying to instigate war to increase their power.

I'm not against christianity the idea, I'm against christianity the organised religious practice.

Jesus was a cool man, if anything. Nothing beyond that, though.

Why dont athiests get to build a church and pray at a blank wall. lol

At 11/22/06 09:52 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: For those of you who are anti christians, to make a political point, i will ask you a few questions about christianity.
- What is the Council of Narcia?

Narcia? You probably mean Nicea :p

Anyways, I did understand what you're implying with this. It does have a logic.
Nice.

At 11/25/06 10:27 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:

At 11/24/06 12:04 AM, airraid81 wrote:

Anti Christians and anti religon-istic individuals constantly bring up the argument, look at all the damage that christianity caused. What's even worse, is the double standard. Islamic Extremists who aren't suposedly muhammeds followers, should not be used as an excuse to bash islam. (And i respect that) But Christian Extremists (And if you've ever heard about Gnostic Christians, And quakers, you'd know that not all early christians were puritans) who aparently ARE following christs word (Which was to love others as you love yourself) are the aparent "Represenation" of how christian faith is evil.

1) What are you saying about the Gnositics? The term Gnostic is actually used in modern times to describe differing movements with differing beliefs. Some could have been very puritanical while others may have been much more...secular. The Quakers are not early christians...
2) I wouldn't say Christian extremists ARE following Christ's word. What differentiates an extremist from a fundamentalist are things like: a) abortion clinic bombing b) church/temple burnings c) establishing a Theocracy in S. Carolina.
3) I don't think that there is a double standard between Islamic extremists and the example of Christianity's wrong-doings. The point is: do not judge lest we be judged. If it is logical to point to Islam as a violent religion; it is equally logical to judge Christianity and Judaism as violent religions as well. I am applying the standard applied to Islam to Christianity; and most Christians do not like to (or more commonly will not) examine themselves.
4) I'm anti-religion because it obstructs people's ability to understand their relationship with God and thus acheive atonement (at one ment).

At 11/23/06 10:51 PM, Arkatsson wrote: Mind on giving some insight on what you meant?

BTW I'm Catholic who goes to church when its mandatory (which is every weekend and holy days).

Were you talking to me? If so...

My concept of the anti-Christ is that I'm beginning to question whether he is a man (such as Damien in Omen or the SecGen of the UN in the Left Behind series of books), or if the anti-Christ refers to something internal to every human. For example when Jesus is preaching that whoever thinks about adultry or stealing has already committed the sin. Does this mean that just having a thought is a sin? Or does it refer to that spark of temptation that each of us feels, and that these temptations are against what Jesus taught (ie: anti-Christ). Much like Jihad means struggle (and more often than not an internal struggle to live a pious life), could not the struggle against the anti-Christ be our struggle to overcome the tempation of hitting on a hot married woman, or shoplifting a PS3?

At 11/26/06 09:37 AM, cold-as-hell wrote: Why dont athiests get to build a church and pray at a blank wall. lol

Not a bad idea.

At 11/22/06 09:52 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: - Have there ever been islamic empires? Have there ever been Hindu Empires? Have there ever been Atheist based Empires?

The Ottoman Empire, India, the USSR,... do any of those ring a bell?

"Religion is opium for the masses." - Karl Marx

At 11/26/06 11:57 PM, Mercator wrote:

At 11/25/06 11:19 PM, Elfer wrote: I'm not against christianity the idea, I'm against christianity the organised religious practice.

Ever seen dogma??

Are you saying Ben Affleck and Matt Damon are going to enter a church and cause the universe to become non-existant?

At 11/23/06 12:49 AM, Altarus wrote:

At 11/23/06 12:30 AM, fasdit wrote: Smilez there is no logic in your questions. The mason pretty much just pwned you too.

Either that or the mason just proved the point he might have been trying to make. He's the only one was able to answer the questions (apparently), but he is not antireligious.

this may be so but wouldent you agree that it would be best to know all the info about something before you formulate a reason as to why you dont like it or dont practice it?

I bet jesus was a racist homosexual. They just tore the pages out of the bible. Thats why it dont make sence.

At 11/28/06 08:12 AM, bloodredsky wrote:

At 11/23/06 12:49 AM, Altarus wrote:

At 11/23/06 12:30 AM, fasdit wrote: Smilez there is no logic in your questions. The mason pretty much just pwned you too.

Either that or the mason just proved the point he might have been trying to make. He's the only one was able to answer the questions (apparently), but he is not antireligious.

this may be so but wouldent you agree that it would be best to know all the info about something before you formulate a reason as to why you dont like it or dont practice it?

It is impossible to know the mind of God; so it is impossible to have the information in order to formulate a reason to or not to like/practice religion.

But what I do have is 31 years of life and experience on God's creation.
My earliest memories of dealing with any church goes back 26 years, and they were not good ones.
I've studied theology and philosophy as part of my Jesuit undergrad education.
I've studied theology and philosophy and Christian history as part of my political science and self guided study.
I have been part of several Christian churches, I've even taught Sunday school.
I've read the Bible.
I've read parts of the Qur'an, studied Buddhism in Korea and I'm currently reading the Tao Te Ching.

How much more do I have to study, read and experience before I'm wise enough to formulate an opinion?

At 11/28/06 02:46 PM, TheMason wrote: How much more do I have to study, read and experience before I'm wise enough to formulate an opinion?

Such a productive life you've had. It's nice to see you've read religious books other than the bible too.

Since you're an "expert" (I'm not trying to insult you, I'm merely extremely sceptic when it comes to religion, in all its forms. In my opinion, there is no such thing as an omnipotent, all-knowing, all-forgiving universal power/deity. A theologist would have to be an expert on something that, in my opinion, does not exist. So again, no harm meant), could you explain the point of putting time and effort into a religion?

At 11/28/06 08:09 PM, Athlas wrote:

At 11/28/06 02:46 PM, TheMason wrote: How much more do I have to study, read and experience before I'm wise enough to formulate an opinion?

Such a productive life you've had. It's nice to see you've read religious books other than the bible too.

I've also made time to procreate, be in the military and earn a Masters in International Relations. Now I'm transitioning into teaching... So yeah, I'm happy with who I am!

Since you're an "expert" (I'm not trying to insult you, I'm merely extremely sceptic when it comes to religion, in all its forms. In my opinion, there is no such thing as an omnipotent, all-knowing, all-forgiving universal power/deity. A theologist would have to be an expert on something that, in my opinion, does not exist. So again, no harm meant), could you explain the point of putting time and effort into a religion?

The point I was trying to make was that I have made an effort to analyze my spiritual beliefs in a variety of settings. Along the way I have formulated and re-formulated opinions. By keeping my opinions to myself and not testing them against other's beliefs and experiences stunts my own intellectual or spiritual growth.

As to what is the point?
I'll be honest with you I've always struggled with the following questions:
Can God/Deity realy exist?
Is God Male, Female or the perfect balance of the two?
Could there be two Gods, one Male and one Female?
Is Christianity really the true faith?
Why can't Islam be the true faith?
What about Buddhism and Taoism?

I can see where you would think that this would be a waste of time because for all my searching and time devoted to exploring my spirituality, I have no definite answers. But I have found my reflection or meditation on verses from the Bible, the Qur'an or the Tao Te Ching I find myself centered. Sometimes I even figure out answers to the problems presented to me. For example my divorce was an exceptionally painful time in my life. I both turned to and away from God. I found very little comfort in modern, American Christianity. However, studying early Christian faiths and Buddhism was catharctic for me. this intellectual/spiritual journey has helped me find peace or direction in troubled or confusing times.

The one conclusion I have come to is this:
In binding oneself to a singular dogmatic doctrine, one freely enters a prison. However, if one openly seeks the wisdom of a variety of viewpoints one can find freedom.

Questions for anti-religious people (Mason) to answer (not being an ass, just something to think about)

Why be anti-religious? Granted, a lot of people profit from other's beliefs (I am against organized establishments based on religions. No Church, of any religion (besides scientology) needs a big-screen TV), but why be against the belief. Personally, Ive had supernatural experiences. Others believe so that they have soundness of mind; a place to go after they die (unlike the athiest theory that life is just an illusion, in which, since there was no life to start with, no life exists, and in the future, life has still not existed anyway, so you didnt die [something like that. I read it a few years ago]) Why take that away from people? You have nothing to gain if you are right (suicide bombers would go anyways, terrorists hate the world for more than one reason), and you destroy people if you are wrong.

I am not "Anti-Christian", I am just not Christian or anything for that matter. Does this mean I am an Athiest? No, I am Agnostic and do agree that people are entitled to thier beliefs wether I agree with them or not.
What angers me though is people running around forcing thier religion down people's throats. Do you want to condemn me and look down on me because I don't believe in your book? I have met many Christians who did. Now before I get flamed for saying that please note that I did not say ALL Christians.

Truthfully, I could care less about your references to a book that was apparently created by a supreme being. I don't care. If I did you would see me in church.
Since you are so quick to shove your beliefs down our throats let me shove mine down yours: I need proof! Not just some book proclaiming that its all true because the book says its true. I can't just go on blind faith as many people can. I need REAL evidence.

At 11/26/06 06:51 PM, SomeNick wrote:

At 11/26/06 09:37 AM, cold-as-hell wrote: Why dont athiests get to build a church and pray at a blank wall. lol

Not a bad idea.

On of the advantages of being athiest or agnostic is not having to waste time every sunday going to church and praying.

At 11/30/06 12:15 AM, fasdit wrote:

On of the advantages of being athiest or agnostic is not having to waste time every sunday going to church and praying.

Exactly my point. Religion is a fucking waste of time

At 11/29/06 02:47 AM, Benovere wrote: Questions for anti-religious people (Mason) to answer (not being an ass, just something to think about)

Benovere,

No I don't think you're being an ass. However, I think you are not understanding what I mean when I say that I am "anti-religion". To me religion is an organizied system of beliefs where one person/group of people claim to hold THE Truth of God, life, the Universe, everything. Now this system of beliefs also teaches that this group is special, select or the elect of God; and everyone else is sinners, apostates or heathens who are destined for hell at worst and destined for a lower realm of heaven at best. Religion is thus very divisive, and is the cause of wars being fought in the name of harbingers of peace. Furthermore religion is an opiate in that many tend to give up their reason and free will to blindly and unquestionly follow a human interpretation of Holy Scripture. This creates an obstacle between us and our knowledge of God.

That is not to say that I am an atheist or do not believe in God or the afterlife. I do. I have a very active spiritual life. In fact it is funny that right before your post an atheist had asked me why I did not think that the pursuit of knowledge of God was a waste of time!

Furthermore, I do not seek to force my views on others. I do not want to convert you to my system of beliefs. But I do want to know what you believe and why. The reason? I think I can gain knowledge/wisdom from dialogue with people of diverse religous/spiritual backgrounds. However, one of the goals of religion is to convert followers and this confuses and conceals knowledge of God. Thus I am not attempting to deprive (your words) anyone of their beliefs...just the opposite!

AAK

At 11/22/06 10:22 PM, TheMason wrote: So spell it out for me, what is the point you are trying to make? Also, I am not anti-Christian I am anti-dogmatic religion.

I would also like to know what your point is.... and i'm not anti-christian either...

At 11/30/06 07:19 PM, EternalRabbit wrote:

At 11/22/06 10:22 PM, TheMason wrote:

I would also like to know what your point is.... and i'm not anti-christian either...

Did you read my last post? Also I'm anti-religion, not necessarily anti-Christian.

Its not that I hate christianity, its just that the world would be a better place if it was eradicated!

Hey Mason, like you I have a Jesuit education, am pursuing multiple degrees and have read out of multiple religious books. I am Roman Catholic. A fundamental part of INTELLIGENTLY used organized religions is being able to look at other religions and pull out what we think can benefit us. For example the rosary as meditation from Buddhist prayer beads. Every major religion has evolved for hundreds if not thousands of years. I entirely agree that someone should have their own personal relationship with God and that our own life experiences serve to give us our own credit, but can't we learn something from anyone else too? So I agree with you alot. However for those of us that don't feel the want to study, or aren't intelligent enough to pull what you pulled for yourself out of your studies...Don't you think that an organized religion is good to start someone off who knows nothing about God? A Bible virgin (if you will) could not possibly just read the text and understand for the first time without some sort of help. What do you think?

nutrumpet
Not arguing, just interested

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
-Mohandas Gandhi

That sums up how I feel about MOST christians.

At 11/22/06 09:52 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: For those of you who are anti christians, to make a political point, i will ask you a few questions about christianity.

- Did Jesus ever specifically state that The Diety refered to as "God" would punish them

Dunno never read the bible

- Jesus Said to his followers, Go out and spread my word to the people, what was jesus' "Word" (Refer to the beatudes if your confused)

Again i dont know. Im an athiest so why do you expect me to know this stuff?

- Have there ever been islamic empires? Have there ever been Hindu Empires? Have there ever been Zorastrian Empires? Have there ever been Atheist based Empires?

KK this one i can do. No there have never been any Atheist, Hindu, Zoraston, or islamic empires but thats just because non of the followers of those religions felt that they should go and convert the whole damn world and kill any one who stands in their way.

- What is the Council of Narcia?

no clue

- Who Was constantine, what did he create?

no idea

- After Jesus' Death, 3 groups of people refered to as "Followers of the way" (Aka, pre vatical christians) were broke up into 3 groups, what were they? Hint: Initls are GC, JC, and the most popular, SPC, aka, BC.

Why does this matter?

- Jesus' first so called miracle was at a wedding, (i think it was called the wedding of canna, or ganna, or something.) In the story, mary asks jesus to do what? What is the role of the bridesgroom in a wedding, and how does this play in with all of the time that wasn't talked about in the bible? Hint: Water to Wine

UIhhhhh did he turn water to wine and i have no idea why any of this is relevent

- Which statement is more objectable, Jews killed jesus, or, the jews killed jesus.

Jews killed jesus. Only specific jewish people were involved.

If you can answer all of them, i hope you can find the wisdom in the answers.

I think you should find the pot in ur room and throw it away

At 12/1/06 10:16 AM, emmytee wrote: Its not that I hate christianity, its just that the world would be a better place if it was eradicated!

Naw, I think the world would be alot better if savage muhammedans were eradicated.

At 12/1/06 06:16 PM, BanditByte wrote:

At 12/1/06 10:16 AM, emmytee wrote: Its not that I hate christianity, its just that the world would be a better place if it was eradicated!

Naw, I think the world would be alot better if savage muhammedans were eradicated.

The radicals on both sides are equally bad.

At 12/1/06 07:37 PM, Tancrisism wrote: The radicals on both sides are equally bad.

Radicals on in side are bad.