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At 11/20/06 04:22 AM, JerkClock wrote: Yes but it's not a reason to shock him, they could have just let him walk out on his own and followed him, and it would have been over. They did not. The fact that the cops reacted wrong does not make it illegal.

Go scream at a fucking police officer and see how far it gets you. As a matter of fact, tell me if you get handcuffed or tasered or the police officer calls for backup. Want to know what I think? You would be arrested.

You cant fucking scream at an officer of the law. YOU CANNOT FUCKING SCREAM AT A POLICE OFFICER. This is simple shit. Act like the rational person you are supposed to be, the smart person you are supposed to be going to UCLA and just walk the fuck out of the building.

I mean Jesus fucking Christ, HE TOUCHED HIS ARM. Who gets that worked up over that to the point of screaming? That is a sign of a emotionally dangerous dude and you take action to handle it, which the police did.

I can tell you if some fucker screamed at me not to touch him I would smack him in the fucking face. Rational people dont scream at people.

At 11/20/06 02:53 PM, JerkClock wrote: They weren't asking him questions, they tried to grab his arm as he was leaving, he percieved this as assault and was outraged.

Who the fuck percieves assault as a police officer grabbing your fucking arm? Do you honestly believe this bullshit?

Even if they were though, shocking someone for just saying "don't touch me", no, that still wouldn't be an excuse, sorry.

I think you should watch the video again. He screamed it bro. He fucking screamed at a police officer. That is a giant no no especially with a guy who can arrest you and a guy who carries a loaded pistol.

I'd feel worried if I had a pacemaker and those bastard kept jamming a taser into my back

At 11/20/06 03:12 PM, scottish-cunt wrote: I'd feel worried if I had a pacemaker and those bastard kept jamming a taser into my back

I'd feel stupid if I had a pacemaker and wouldn't obey police commands under threat of tasering.

Then again, if I had a pacemaker I'd keep the info on my persons in case of emergency. This child wasn't mature enough to follow basic instructions posted outside the library. I'd be surprised if he removes the wrapper before eating a Twinkie.

At 11/20/06 12:09 AM, troubles1 wrote: This individual was not violent

Really? Where do you see evidence of that?

At 11/20/06 03:12 PM, scottish-cunt wrote: I'd feel worried if I had a pacemaker and those bastard kept jamming a taser into my back

The student in question DID NOT have a pacemaker. I have as yet to see any evidence of the fact that he had a heart condition of any kind to begin with.

Face it people, you're arguing in support of a fraud.

At 11/20/06 09:26 AM, Imperator wrote:

At 11/20/06 12:09 AM, troubles1 wrote:

And it is NOT the role of an angry mob to enforce that check. There is a time and a place, that was neither.

actually it is our job as citizens to stand up to people who abuse there power, and 3 or 4 people does not really make up a mob. they were doing there civic duty and asking the bullying police for there badge number, if you see police beating a person for no reason it is your duty to help in anyway you think is best,.

And what would you have proposed doing to a person who was not cooperating with you, and was then attempting to instill a riot?

I answered that he did not commit a violent act, and therefore at no time should a violent act have been done to him, at most he should have been escorted outside. the officers if they wanted to be complete asses may have called for backup, told everyone to move to another room surround the student then tell him to place his hands behind his back, at no time should they have electrocuted him, over and over for there personal pleasure.

At 11/20/06 02:53 PM, JerkClock wrote: They weren't asking him questions, they tried to grab his arm as he was leaving, he percieved this as assault and was outraged. Even if they were though, shocking someone for just saying "don't touch me", no, that still wouldn't be an excuse, sorry.

do you know that they were'nt asking him questions? the video began well into the confrontation and what the people saw was most likely only the end of the interaction between the officers and the suspect. they have to stop and ask him questions (including where is his ID), they simply can't assume "well this guy is making his way out, it must be him". its not simply the fact he asked them not to touch him its the fact that he was yelling it and was most likely angered (its not the police's fault he had a bad day and he can't control his temper).
after the initial shock the officers continued asking him to comply and warning that he would be tased again if he didn't and as we can see he decided not to and he was tased again until he allowed the officers to help him up and escort him out to the jeers of morons.

You guys defending the student fail to look at things from the officers' point of view. They run a high risk job, so naturally they would want to do everything possible to minimize risk to themselves. This is why the police typically have a low tolerance for people who give them a bunch of attitude, are uncooperative, or act in a strange or unruly manner. What happened is actually a fairly common thing as police officers will try to avoid trying to wrestle a person into submission to apply restraints. The officers more than likely used the taser as opposed to pepper spray because they were in an enclosed space with other people and pepper spray tends to spread out.

As has been mentioned, yelling at a police officer (especially while he's trying to do his job) is more than enough reason for an officer to perceive you as a hostile and subdue you.

Let's see:

1) Yelled at officers
2) Told them to fuck off
3) Told them they're abusing power
4) Refused to stand up
5) Resisted
6) Wouldn't leave

He should have gotten more than a couple of tazerings if you ask me

Where the fuck are you seeing this.

In a statement issued by the fucking police, not even they tried to argue that he was in any way aggressive. They only claimed that his body went limp (a form of resistance, according to them).

At 11/20/06 04:34 PM, Begoner wrote:

Where the fuck are you seeing this.

In a statement issued by the fucking police, not even they tried to argue that he was in any way aggressive. They only claimed that his body went limp (a form of resistance, according to them).

Passive Agressive is still AGRESSIVE.

The fact that his voice was stirring others means he was trying to incite a riot. Once again, if I were one of the 3 cops coming up against 20 students (and increasing in #), I'd be shocking the shit out of that guy and removing him as quickly as possible. Otherwise he would just keep talking, keep gaining that public support, and then you'd be in big trouble if the 30+ students decided to stop your "abuse of power"......

Mob mentality is one of the most dangerous things to face outnumbered, and considering that circumstance, I would most definintely be forcing that guy to get his ass off the floor and out the door, ASAP. The longer he stays in view, the more people are gonna congregate, and the more hostile that crowd will be. He wouldn't shut up, so he got a nice electric shock. He refused to leave, so he got another.

Frankly, if anyone tried such a thing against me, I'd sue em for endangering my life, claim self- defense, and walk away a free man. You won't find a judge in the WORLD to convict those cops, and I'd be damn surprised if you could.

The fact that his voice was stirring others means he was trying to incite a riot.

No, it means he was speaking out against the monstrous police brutality. If I was being senselessly beaten by the police only because I wasn't moving, I wouldn't take it quitely. I would rip their heads off, if possible; the least I could do would be to call attention to my plight. However, I don't recall him telling anybody to attack the police officers; in fact, the only thing he said was that he was the object of a sadistic act.

Otherwise he would just keep talking, keep gaining that public support, and then you'd be in big trouble if the 30+ students decided to stop your "abuse of power"......

I'm sorry that they didn't stop such a gruesome and unlawful act sooner. I'm surprised that the students didn't attack the police officers and stop the torture of a student. I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that we have such a thing as "freedom of speech" in this country, though. You know, we have a right to say "the police are abusing their power" without being taken next to a wall and shocked (or, in this case, taken to the floor and shocked).

Mob mentality is one of the most dangerous things to face outnumbered, and considering that circumstance, I would most definintely be forcing that guy to get his ass off the floor and out the door, ASAP.

There were over 5 police officers there. Do you seriously believe that they could not have carried the student out the door if they so desired? He was in a completely helpless state (usually, that's the consequence of being subjected to extreme physical agony and temporary paralysis).

He wouldn't shut up, so he got a nice electric shock. He refused to leave, so he got another.

Right, so you really don't care whatsoever about freedom of speech or the first amendment. Like many conservatives, you wish to install a police state in which everybody has to obey whatever the police tell them. I pity you, I really do.

You won't find a judge in the WORLD to convict those cops, and I'd be damn surprised if you could.

I bet that such actions would be condemned as grossly illegal by many European countries. It was a deliberate and senseless act of torture.

At 11/20/06 04:59 PM, Begoner wrote:

The fact that his voice was stirring others means he was trying to incite a riot.

No, it means he was speaking out against the monstrous police brutality.

To whom?

I would rip their heads off, if possible;

Your opinion is no longer valid, on the grounds that you're a sociopath.

You know, we have a right to say "the police are abusing their power"

You have the right to remain silent. You do not have the right to shout "fire!" in a theatre or "fuck you!" to an officer of the law. You need to find out what rights you really have. If that means you need to go back to school, so be it.

There were over 5 police officers there. Do you seriously believe that they could not have carried the student out the door if they so desired? He was in a completely helpless state

He was not in a completely helpless state. He had time to scream, catch his breath, scream again, then go on a tirade trying to incite violence against the police officers.

Right, so you really don't care whatsoever about freedom of speech or the first amendment.

Freedom of speech does not cover hate speech or violent speech.

I bet that such actions would be condemned as grossly illegal by many European countries. It was a deliberate and senseless act of torture.

Europe does not hold legal sway over UCLA library policy.

they were doing there civic duty and asking the bullying police for there badge number, if you see police beating a person for no reason it is your duty to help in anyway you think is best,.

If you endanger the life of that cop by doing so, you should be arrested. The peeps askng for badge numbers did it at the WRONG TIME.

"I got tased for no reason. I was leaving this god-forsaken place. You're abusing your power".

Arrest the fucker for attempting to incite a riot.

In fact, that was a MOB. A non-violent mob, but a MOB. There were way more than 3 bystanders, both in the room, and in the hall at the end of the clip. The only group of 3 I see are the three outnumbered officers.

"Officers we want your information". Said while the officers were STILL trying to detain the asshole. WRONG PLACE, WRONG TIME.

That mob RUSHED the cops while one such tasering was underway (3:20). They were all screaming, and it's a lot more than 3 people.

At 3:40, one officer is nearly completely surrounded by a very hostile group of people (at least 4 people, btw). At 3:54, it even appears that this officer is pushed or knocked back.....

"Not a mob" you say?

At 4:10 you see two officers and a GANG of "bystanders", who are heckling, yelling, and getting increasingly hostile. Polite citizens doing their "civic duty" don't go up to cops, tell em to Fuck off, tell them they're abusing their power, and shove them. That's a mob, plain and simple, and the instigator should be arrested for inciting it.

At 6:15, the fucker FINALLY stands (mostly under his own power), and is quietly escorted out of the building.

Meanwhile, the students are questioning the officers, in a much less hostile manner than before. Notice, the crowd hostility died as the suspect was leaving, proving my point that the asshole was inciting a mob to riot. Thereby justifying the police action to taser the shit out of him, as he posed a clear and present threat to the lives of the officers.

At the end of the video, one officer threatens use of similar force to someone who is using similar actions. The guy in the white was the loudest voice among the protesters (who are now docile, a good 30 seconds after the man is finally removed), and is not helping diffuse the situation any.

I can't believe this level of analysis is needed to see where the situation warranted and justified the actions of the police, but aparently there are a few people out there who have never been on the wrong end of a hostile mob......

I'd be curious to know if anyone has tried suing the police, and if such a lawsuit already hasn't been laughed out of the courtroom.....

At 11/20/06 04:27 PM, Senatus wrote: Let's see:

1) Yelled at officers
2) Told them to fuck off
3) Told them they're abusing power
4) Refused to stand up
5) Resisted
6) Wouldn't leave

He should have gotten more than a couple of tazerings if you ask me

so a pig comes up to you and grabs your arm and starts pulling you out the door. you agree dto go out the door so you feel him groping you is un neccesary. yo tell him you will gladly leave and that him groping you isnt necesary. eventually you get pissed off that this pig wont let go of you and he has ZERO right to be touching you at all. if you think that a situation that those PIGS started was out of hand, you are right. it was out of hand. but the pigs fucking started that shit, tazered the dude over and over, refused badge numbers, basically didnt give any rights to anyone. i dont know what fucked up nazi country you live in, but in CANADA that shit was the pigs fault. the kid told the cop to fuck off after he got tazed. if you got tazed for asking somone to let go of you wudent you say fuck off? and just cause cops have that fucking power doesnt mean if somone yells at them they have the right to beat them and electricute them. wtf man! people yell at me and i dont get to taxer them, noone should be put in a situation where they can do what they want to toher citizens. police are the worst idea ever.

Right, so you really don't care whatsoever about freedom of speech or the first amendment. Like many conservatives, you wish to install a police state in which everybody has to obey whatever the police tell them. I pity you, I really do.

Not only do you NOT have the right to create a hostile attitude against anyone (especially officers of the law), but you do not have the right to voice your opinion if it should defame or cause damage to one's reputation or character. This is libel and slander.

Like LDrunk said, you need to go back to school (or stay in it) if you don't have a clear view of what you can and cannot say under the first amendment.

I've been threatened to get sued once already for something similar, so I'm well aware simply through my experiences. Perhaps I could sue you for this statement:

"Like many conservatives, you wish to install a police state in which everybody has to obey whatever the police tell them. I pity you, I really do."

.....wonder what U of M legal services are doing this weekend....?

I bet that such actions would be condemned as grossly illegal by many European countries

How much? Anyone wanna find out?

It was a deliberate and senseless act of torture.

You've used that word so much that I've become desensitized to it. You consider everything from a statement of "I don't like you" to electro-shocking your nuts torture, including everything inbetween.

If this is torture, I don't wanna know what sort of actions (if any), you'd allow LEO's and the military to take should you become a prominent lawmaker in the future.......

.....**thinks of Begoner in 30 years time as governor of Michigan......

**shudders violently**

Just do me a favor, and let me know when you decide to run for public office, so I can move out of whatever state you do it in....

police are the worst idea ever.

Where abouts are you from? I have a sudden urge to rob your house, fuck your mother, and live a luxurious life off of your assets (that you generously "lent" to me) for the next 50 years.....

At 11/20/06 05:17 PM, fallen-son wrote: i dont know what fucked up nazi country you live in, but in CANADA that shit was the pigs fault. the kid told the cop to fuck off after he got tazed.

hahaha, its amazing how stupid you are, i'll leave you to figure out why.

This is fucking dumb. Both sides are in the wrong here. The kid obviously wanted to cause a scene. He did all he could to provoke the police officers, and make them look like the bad guys. Had he really been "cooperative" with the police, he wouldn't have yelled as loud as he possibly could, nor would he keep instigating afterwards. Had I been in his position, I would have calmly asked the officer "to take your hand off me, as I can escort myself out." He had no reason to cause such a ruckus. Few situations call for that sort of behavior. As for the whole four-year-old-limp-maneuver, that too, was unnecessary. Again, had I been in his position, I would have (again) calmly asked the officer to "help me out of the building, as I am unable to move." Well, as calmly as a freshly tazered individual can speak. At the very least, he could've asked for help, instead of screaming at the top of his lungs like a toddler who's just been spanked.

But the cops really should've taken a much more conservative plan of action, then just whipping out the stun gun and lettin'er rip. Tazering should be a second last resort, next to firing your gun. And besides, by giving the student a taste of Young Sparky, they were only giving him what he wanted in the first place: a reason to cause a big scene. And it's for this reason that I place most of the blame on the police officers. Yes, the kid is an asshole and a dick, and nothing is gonna change that. But if the cops had acted differently, we, at the very least, wouldn't have to hear about it.

At 11/20/06 04:59 PM, Begoner wrote:

The fact that his voice was stirring others means he was trying to incite a riot.

No, it means he was speaking out against the monstrous police brutality.

So touching someone's arm = monstrous police brutality now?

There were over 5 police officers there. Do you seriously believe that they could not have carried the student out the door if they so desired?

I only saw 4, and two of them damn well tried. So what does that tell you?

He was in a completely helpless state (usually, that's the consequence of being subjected to extreme physical agony and temporary paralysis).

That's the biggest load of horse shit and you bloody well know it.

I bet that such actions would be condemned as grossly illegal by many European countries.

And we should give two shits about european opinions... why?

It was a deliberate and senseless act of torture.

I've already supplied links to deliberate and senseless acts of torture and police brutality, and this doesn't even begin to COMPARE to those incidents.

At 11/20/06 03:02 PM, Demosthenez wrote:

Go scream at a fucking police officer and see how far it gets you. As a matter of fact, tell me if you get handcuffed or tasered or the police officer calls for backup. Want to know what I think? You would be arrested.

Don't be an idiot, the fact that you would be brutalised by the police does not mean it was the right thing for them to do.

YOU CANNOT FUCKING SCREAM AT A POLICE OFFICER.

You can scream "don't touch me" if you think you are being assaulted. Police officers will even tell you to do that when you think you are under attack(so that people can come to your aid). Again, what he did was not a threat to the police, they did not need to take the actions they did.

I mean <blaspheme> fucking <blaspheme>, HE TOUCHED HIS ARM. Who gets that worked up over that to the point of screaming?

A lot of people react that way when someone they don't know grabs them, because it is usually followed by brutal assault.

I can tell you if some fucker screamed at me not to touch him I would smack him in the fucking face.

And you would go to jail for it.

Who the fuck percieves assault as a police officer grabbing your fucking arm?

People who are familiar with police brutality.

I think you should watch the video again. He screamed it bro.

And screaming "Don't touch me" was such a threat to the officer's lives that he just had to be tasered eh? I think not.

At 11/20/06 10:38 PM, JerkClock wrote: Police officers will even tell you to scream "DON'T TOUCH ME!!!" when you are touched by police after breaking the law.

Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll

A lot of people react that way when someone they don't know grabs them, because it is usually followed by brutal assault.

LOLOLOL

No. It's not. F'real move out da ghetto yo.

At 11/20/06 04:02 PM, UnusQuoMeridianus wrote:

do you know that they were'nt asking him questions?

Well eyewitnesses said that and it's all I have to go on.

its not simply the fact he asked them not to touch him its the fact that he was yelling it and was most likely angered (its not the police's fault he had a bad day and he can't control his temper).

I'd be mad too I felt cops were trying to assault me, and call as much attention to it as possible to have witnesses and ensure they wouldn't get away with it. He should have said it calmly first, yes, but physically attacking a person for yelling is police brutality, plain and simple.

after the initial shock the officers continued asking him to comply and warning that he would be tased again if he didn't and as we can see he decided not to and he was tased again until he allowed the officers to help him up and escort him out to the jeers of morons.

Or maybe he just wasn't able to move due to the shocking. While it doesn't happen to everyone, some people can't move or can barely move after a taser attack.

At 11/20/06 10:44 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

No. It's not. F'real move out da ghetto yo.

So when someone grabs your arm they do what? Give you $5000?

At 11/20/06 10:44 PM, JerkClock wrote:

At 11/20/06 04:02 PM, UnusQuoMeridianus wrote:
do you know that they were'nt asking him questions?

Well eyewitnesses said that and it's all I have to go on.

unfortunatley the video started well into the confrontation and i'm sure some witnesses only saw the end half and jumped on the police brutality bandwagon.

its not simply the fact he asked them not to touch him its the fact that he was yelling it and was most likely angered (its not the police's fault he had a bad day and he can't control his temper).

I'd be mad too I felt cops were trying to assault me,

assault? at most they put a hand on him to help escort him out, he wasn't even under arrest at the time the incident began.

He should have said it calmly first, yes, but physically attacking a person for yelling is police brutality, plain and simple.

thats a good idea when you need witnesses but remember to keep your tone calm and not aggressive as was his. as the situation progressed i would assume the suspect got more and more agitated which is probably what set off the officers: end the conflict before it can escalate further.

Or maybe he just wasn't able to move due to the shocking. While it doesn't happen to everyone, some people can't move or can barely move after a taser attack.

but he had fun drawing attention to himself by yelling and coming up with "clever" remarks. at one point didn't they have him up but he was refusing to walk? (thats what i saw anyways)

At 11/20/06 11:45 PM, UnusQuoMeridianus wrote:

its not simply the fact he asked them not to touch him its the fact that he was yelling it and was most likely angered (its not the police's fault he had a bad day and he can't control his temper).

Speculation, besides, it's not his fault the cops didn't practice the restraint they were supposed to for non-violent offences.

assault? at most they put a hand on him to help escort him out, he wasn't even under arrest at the time the incident began.

Maybe, but he obviously percieved otherwise.

thats a good idea when you need witnesses but remember to keep your tone calm and not aggressive as was his. as the situation progressed i would assume the suspect got more and more agitated which is probably what set off the officers: end the conflict before it can escalate further.

Unfortunately that's idealistic. People who want to assault you just will, and reasoning with them is a waste of time.

but he had fun drawing attention to himself by yelling and coming up with "clever" remarks.

I'd be making remarks about police brutality too if it was taking place on me. I'd want witnesses that was what was going on and keep saying it so that my witnesses would know. So yeah. I dunno about the fun part though.

at one point didn't they have him up but he was refusing to walk? (thats what i saw anyways)

Just further strengthening my point that he couldn't stand.

Assault

Brutality

Bro, you are being retarted. Touching is not assault, it is not brutality, and it in no way leads to brutality or assault. IT IS TOUCHING.

I mean, fucking A, next time someone brushes up against me when Im walking the streets I will remember to get my lungs and legal team ready because hot damn, TOUCHING IS A FUCKING NO NO.

And honestly, go scream at a police officer for me. Go ahead, do it. Tell me what they do.

At 11/21/06 01:42 AM, Demosthenez wrote:

Bro, you are being retarted. Touching is not assault, it is not brutality, and it in no way leads to brutality or assault. IT IS TOUCHING.

Tasering somebody for screaming at you not to touch them however is. Maybe you ought to try getting some reading comprehension before you debate.

At 11/21/06 01:49 AM, JerkClock wrote:

At 11/21/06 01:42 AM, Demosthenez wrote:

Bro, you are being retarted. Touching is not assault, it is not brutality, and it in no way leads to brutality or assault. IT IS TOUCHING.

Tasering somebody for screaming at you not to touch them however is. Maybe you ought to try getting some reading comprehension before you debate.

Screaming at a police officer responding to an illegal trespass as they attempt to escort you out will put them on edge. Having a fit will get you tazed. Police are not psychic, they don't know whether the guy having a screaming fit is just some wannabe rebel yuppie, or a jackass with a weapon that he's itching to use on a person. They don't get paid enough to take the chance guessing, so people get tazed, mased, and hit with whatever less than lethal weapon at the officer's disposal.

Sometimes I wonder how many times he'd have been asked to cooperate in Columbia or Bolivia.

JerkClock, can you link me to the police website that states when an officer of the law touches you in accordance with a criminal complaint, that it's assault when you touch them? I think you're full of shit, I think you know it, and I think you're using a pretty weak debate structure to defend it.

C'mon now meow.

MORE POLICE BRUTALITY!!! HORAY