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At 11/18/06 07:50 PM, Begoner wrote: Let me get this straight: you think that it's OK for a police officer to play Russian roulette with a person who's only crime was being obnoxious? You do know what Russian roulette is, right?

Did he stutter? Is there an echo in here? Do you have a fucking reading comprehension problem, or is you're internet connection not loading text properly? WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION NUMB NUTTS? ANSWER ME! Because I'm sick and tired of seeing you on here reitterating word-for-word what people say in mock disbelief at the very idea that somebody would have a differing opinion than YOURS.

Cops take a chance that someone might die every time they go out on patrol or get called into a situation. It's part of their job, it goes with the territory. It's their job to restore normalcy to society, maintain order, and clean up the mess after a crime has been comitted. It's not their place to run down a complete medical history on someone before macing or tazering them. If this student's medical situation was THAT serious he should have said something instead of screaming "I'M NOT FIGHTING!" and continuing to struggle after the cops told him to stop!

And I hate to tell you this, but the cops wouldn't have been called if he was just "quietly leaving the building" and they wouldn't have tazered him just for shits and giggles either. You have to have done something very serious in order for them to take that course of action with you.

Be glad that all they did was taze him, not every police department HAS access to tazer equipment. The situation could have been much worse.

Because I'm sick and tired of seeing you on here reitterating word-for-word what people say in mock disbelief at the very idea that somebody would have a differing opinion than YOURS.

No, I expressed disbelief at his idea that one out of every six people who are obnoxious should be shot by the police. I doubt that any sane people hold such a view; even you don't. I'm sick and tired of extreme right-wingers advocating the creation of a police state where the policemen have total impunity for their actions, no matter how abhorrent they might be. I find it disgusting that some people find it perfectly fine to torture a student simply because he didn't have an ID card wtih him. I don't care if people disagree with me; I care if they agree with Hitler's or Stalin's view on law and order.

At 11/18/06 09:04 PM, Begoner wrote: No, I expressed disbelief at his idea that one out of every six people who are obnoxious should be shot by the police.

That's all you buddy. I've looked, he said nothing of the sort.

I don't care if people disagree with me; I care if they agree with Hitler's or Stalin's view on law and order.

And you've just comitted the biggest logical fallacy on the internet; The Comparison That Ends The Conversation.

At 11/18/06 08:02 PM, Begoner wrote:

restraint is not torture.

Subjecting someone to extreme physical agony is.

and a taser is extreme physical pain over a prolonged period of time that may permanently physically or metally scar the person subjected to it?
no its not, its a means of controlling an unruly suspect. though the suspect did not physically assault the police that were escorting him out of the video he was not cooperating and shouting aggressively. to avoid further possible danger for the police and the suspect he was incapacitated with the taser. if you're are having a bad day or you don't like police officers keep your shouting, aggression and whatever other bullshit until you are somewhere you can file a report and the police won't feel a need to use force.

The guy was already leaving from the building, the Police stopped him and therefore made the first move. That video was Police brutality if I have ever seen it.

At 11/19/06 12:25 AM, fasdit wrote: That video was Police brutality if I have ever seen it.

i guess you've never seen what actual police brutality is.

This message is really for people who I am too lazy to quote and to people who have read the whole thread so far up to this point. Someone said that if he had such a bad heart condition, he should've told the police. Okay, let's have me smack you upside your head and try and make sense of what you say with all the excruciating pain. Some also said that the police were just doing their job. Okay, exactly, they're doing their job, and a job has rules. For a police officer, one of them is that they can't even touch the suspect unless he commits a crime. If these officers don't take those kinds of rules so seriously, then they also might as well not take the Public Misconduct (or whatever it's called) so seriously either. You can do something and not expect it to balance or justify something else. Otherwise, it's a one-sided deal. In this case, it favoured the police, meaning police brutality. Oh and to proteas about the comment of the access to the Tazer and being able to use it. If you were a cop and you saw someone stealing CANDY from a convenience store, would you pull out your gun and shoot to apprehend? And to the ones who said that the kid must've have done something really stupid to get the police called on him, okay so maybe he was provoking. If a man killed a few others and was sent to prison, does he still not have his rights regardless? Or have we pushed this social progression tape into rewind? What's my point? The police in this video were abusing their powers, and were harassing the suspect and witnesses to. And if I recall correctly, the police also threatened some witnesses by saying he was about to pull out a tazer and taze them.

Why in the name of God the lord almighty are you all arguing with Begoner. Hes a socialist (moron) who doesn't believe in physical punishment or capitalism.

As for my say in this, there are people worrying about the heart problem thing. If you claim to have a heart problem ro whatever, you better have proof with you, or else it don't mean jack shit whether you actually have it (the problem) or not. As for the tazering, hopefully this kid will have learned to cooperate with the police and obey the laws. Keep in mind none of thiss would've happened had he not been doing anything wrong in the first place (in this case being in a restricted area without I.D.)

At 11/18/06 06:03 PM, Begoner wrote: They were sadistic bastards who were torturing him for the fun of it, and I don't care how you spin it.

My heart is bleeding. Please, do you even believe this shit? You think the cops enjoyed tasering some annoying fucker in front of a bunch of college kids in a library? PUH-FUCKIN-LEAZE.

At 11/18/06 03:23 PM, Begoner wrote: Yeah, he flipped out because the security officer grabbed his arm while he was trying to leave peacefully. That was a mistake.

Who the fuck throws a bitch fit when someone grabs your goddamn arm? Seriously. This kid was a fucking retard. If a cop grabbed my arm I wouldnt scream at them, that is just asking to be fucked with. What a stupid ass and every single one of you who think the cops are stepping over some giant barrier for grabbing the annoying little bitches arm. ITS YOUR FUCKING ARM, PEOPLE TOUCH YOU EVERY DAY, DEAL THE FUCK WITH IT, DONT THROW A BITCH FIT YOU WOULD SEE THOSE LITTLE BRATS THROW ON THAT FUCKING SUPER NANNY SHOW.

I mean I still cant get over this. Who the fuck screams at the cops for touching your fucking arm. Who the fuck does that. A fucking crazy ass bitch, thats looking to make a scene and get attention. Fuck that attention whore and I hope they taze his fucking nutsack next time.

At 11/18/06 05:07 AM, Cereal wrote: I'd be willing to bet 100 bucks that this was the first time these officers had even used a taser in a real world setting.

These guys deal with belligerent drunks all the time. You think they havent tased people before? Can you say fucking naive?

I have seen two kids tasered before at CU. Two kids. And I am just one person. I promise you they taser people all the time.

if you defend the cops in this circumstance, you are a fucking dumbass.

Excuse my naivete for believing that if you can scream at the top of your fuckin lungs you might be able to move.

From the looks of things, he was most likely unable to get up while the police were telling him to. This often happens when people are shocked with tasers. Some recover quicker than others. Those who recover slower, will be incopacitated. This happens, yet police ignore this fact and brutalize the public anyway. We really need to start giving the death penalty for police brutality. Maybe then they'll start recognizing our constitutional rights.

Ok, for all of you who think the cops are at fault in this situation, do you think that the kid was justified in how he acted? Why?

At 11/19/06 08:24 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Ok, for all of you who think the cops are at fault in this situation, do you think that the kid was justified in how he acted? Why?

YES, he was trying to leave, the cops wouldn't let him, which, by definition of the law, is kidnapping. He was very justified. I'd like to see them burned to death for what they did. This is supposed to be a free country, not a totalitarian police state.

As for the tazering, hopefully this kid will have learned to cooperate with the police and obey the laws. Keep in mind none of thiss would've happened had he not been doing anything wrong in the first place (in this case being in a restricted area without I.D.)

Next time somebody's in the library (not a restricted area, mind you) without an ID, let's chop their hands off! Surely they'd learn their lesson then and start obeying the laws, no? In case you're too stupid to get it, continuously torturing a student for no other reason than to perpetrate your own sadistic urges in not acceptable police behavior. Any normal human being can understand this; of course, I'm probably arguing with people who enjoy tweezing the legs off of spiders, so this kind of treatment would seem justified in their eyes. Get it through your thick head: it's not OK to keep on shocking someone when they're writhing on the ground in agony; it's beyond monstrous.

At 11/19/06 08:24 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Ok, for all of you who think the cops are at fault in this situation, do you think that the kid was justified in how he acted? Why?

What a biased question. The student was not justified in how he acted, but neither were the police. The student accidentally stayed in the library without an ID card -- that was a mistake. The police repeatedly shocked him with a powerful, paralyzing electric current for minutes at a time, despite the student's completely helplessness and inability to move. One of these actions was a minor transgression; the other was a sadistic and diabolic act. Guess which was which.

and a taser is extreme physical pain over a prolonged period of time that may permanently physically or metally scar the person subjected to it?

I'm guessing that you haven't read the definition of torture. Nowhere does it stipulate that the result of torture must be a mental or physical scar.

to avoid further possible danger for the police and the suspect he was incapacitated with the taser.

It might have been fine to shock him the first time, when he was being aggressive, fine. However, they didn't stop there. He was writhing on the ground in pain, helpless to do anything, much less assault the police officers. Nonetheless, the monsters continued to shock him in that state. It revolts anyone who is conscious of the disgusting nature of the situation.

They weren't neccessarily being sadistic. Overzealous and abusive sure, but sadistic? Doubt it. It's more than likely they just didn't care and were eager to punish someone since they don't get to do it too often. That's not the same as being sadistic.

At 11/19/06 10:32 AM, JerkClock wrote: Overzealous and abusive sure, but sadistic? Doubt it.

If they didn't derive pleasure from extremely cruelty towards the student, why did they continue to shock him while he was helpless on the floor? It was certainly illegal for them to do so, and they definitely weren't forced to do so. What other possible reason could they have?

At 11/19/06 07:30 AM, JerkClock wrote: From the looks of things, he was most likely unable to get up while the police were telling him to. This often happens when people are shocked with tasers. Some recover quicker than others. Those who recover slower, will be incopacitated. This happens, yet police ignore this fact and brutalize the public anyway. We really need to start giving the death penalty for police brutality. Maybe then they'll start recognizing our constitutional rights.

When I watched the video, it was apparent that two police officers were attempting to lift him up by the arms while asking him to stand, and he was struggling by twisting and throwing his weight against them. He was not just lying flat on the floor; he was not just totally innocent and incapacitated. He was fighting against them actively.

At 11/19/06 10:44 AM, Begoner wrote:

At 11/19/06 10:32 AM, JerkClock wrote: Overzealous and abusive sure, but sadistic? Doubt it.

If they didn't derive pleasure from extremely cruelty towards the student, why did they continue to shock him while he was helpless on the floor? It was certainly illegal for them to do so, and they definitely weren't forced to do so. What other possible reason could they have?

See, Begoner, at this point you have just totally departed from the reality of the situation and invented your own fantasy of the event to promote your ideals. That video didn't have sufficient detail to determine any of the things you are claiming, and it especially lacked visual evidence of the initial event.

I've seen people like that before, and had to deal with them, and they do fight, but always shout that they aren't (they lie incessantly during the fight). They're an annoying bunch and intentionally provoke trouble. He continued to struggle, and the police tried to subdue him; he started it, and he could have ended it any time by saying even a single reasonable thing-- he didn't.

At 11/19/06 11:29 AM, Draconias wrote:
When I watched the video, it was apparent that two police officers were attempting to lift him up by the arms while asking him to stand, and he was struggling by twisting and throwing his weight against them. He was not just lying flat on the floor; he was not just totally innocent and incapacitated. He was fighting against them actively.

Well if he had been, then why were the students watching all against the police? How come none of them came forward sticking up for them? Surely some might be anti-cop, but not all of them. If such a thing was seen happening I would think at least some of the students would come out on the cops' side. Even if only a few.

I wouldnt mind beating the shite into those coppers just for the fun of it.

....coming' straight from tha undaground, young n***a got it bad cause i'm brown....

Ahhhhhh, NWA crack me up. Rage crack me up more because they ain't black and and it kinda loses its effect......

where am I?

He continued to struggle

He might have struggled after the first shock (the video didn't capture it), and for good reason. After the first couple though, he was definitely not struggling anymore, as is evidenced by both the video and eyewitness accounts. He allowed his body to go limp and didn't move at all. Nonetheless, they continued jolting him.

Don't give me that crap the police had the right to grab him. It is illigal for him to resist arrest hence the reason they were grabbing him. Also in nazi germany he would have been shot to death for such an offence. Please get your facts straight, and try to see from the point of veiw of the police.

I have finally sat down and watched the entire youtube posted at the beginning of this topic instead of going on what I saw on the news. And after an hour and a half of waiting for that video to load, you know what I've learned? NOT MUCH, because the video was not any different than what I saw on the news.

At 11/19/06 08:26 AM, JerkClock wrote: YES, he was trying to leave, the cops wouldn't let him, which, by definition of the law, is kidnapping.

The cops were there to ensure that he left, the student was the one who started the whole incident by acting like a spoiled brat because the police officer put a hand on him. The cops aren't guilty of kidnapping that student, the student is.

At 11/19/06 10:21 AM, Begoner wrote: of course, I'm probably arguing with people who enjoy tweezing the legs off of spiders, so this kind of treatment would seem justified in their eyes.

Straw man, and argumentum ad hominem.

At 11/19/06 10:22 AM, Begoner wrote: The police repeatedly shocked him with a powerful, paralyzing electric current for minutes at a time, despite the student's completely helplessness and inability to move.

They did not shock him for "minutes at a time" (implying that electrical current was applied and held for a period of time beyond the standard maximum of 3-5 seconds). Each tasing lasted 4 seconds at the longest, and there was a good 45 seconds to a minute between each tasing. If the cops actually did what you are accusing them of doing, the college student in question would be a crispy critter lying on a metal slab somewhere, and this incident would have caused all sorts of international outrage.

At 11/19/06 01:35 PM, Begoner wrote: He allowed his body to go limp and didn't move at all.

If he had THAT much control over his own body, then why did he not get up and leave like he kept claiming he was? He wasn't the least bit paralyzed, be it partially or fully.

This guy is nothing more than an opprotunist who was looking to attract attention and pity to himself and to disrupt the flow of collegiate study. We should all give ourselves huge pats on the back, because we did exactly what he wanted.

At 11/17/06 09:55 AM, scottish-cunt wrote: If I saw that happening to one of my pals I'd knock the lot of them out.

oooh, you rebel you.

Someones got their underpants in a twist....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz1sZoqPRwg&mo de=related&search=

At 11/19/06 01:35 PM, Begoner wrote: He allowed his body to go limp and didn't move at all. Nonetheless, they continued jolting him.

Where the fuck are you seeing this.

At best, the only thing you can see is two cops standing over him, trying to pull him up and saying, Stand Up, Stand up.

Seriously, the videotape can't prove shit either way.

Get your head out of your ass and actually look at what your typing.

if i were yelling at the police like a moron i would understand why i just got tased.

p.s. were those even actual police officers, it said they were campus police so either way i doubt they have the same training and experience.

At 11/19/06 12:17 PM, JerkClock wrote: Well if he had been, then why were the students watching all against the police? How come none of them came forward sticking up for them? Surely some might be anti-cop, but not all of them. If such a thing was seen happening I would think at least some of the students would come out on the cops' side. Even if only a few.

You also have to look at where this took place. The Library, at night, of UCLA is not a microcosm for America. On top of that, you have to look at how many students were there, close, if not over, 100. ONLY 3 were hassling the cops. Those who side with the cops know that this situation is not one you get into, let the policemen do their business. Involving one's self is only going to create more trouble.

Just watch the video, watch it and pay attention. If you cannot EASILY see that the kid is playing a game and milking the situation for all it's worth, I aks you to please never come back to this forum again, you are unworthy.

That kid was throwing a 2 year old grocery store tantrum. he wass fighting and lying and screaming all he could to get as many (shallow) people to his side as possible, and it apparently worked. He broke th elaw, he resisted arrest, another broken law and started to get very hostile towards police. If I saw how he threw the police off of him you could say he broke a third law inassaulting a police officer. Now those combined with his attutide more than warrant a taser, and he only made it even more warranted the more he fought.