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At 11/10/06 11:40 AM, KemCab wrote:

Proof that most Republicans are morons.

Stop acting like the Arabs are actually a threat to us. They aren't.

It appears that sarcasm is indeed dead.

Techware, you imply that sleep deprivation and waterboarding are only forms of torture if you're "a wuss". This either shows just how ignorant you are about forms of torture, or that you're willing to distort the truth in order to further your own agenda.

Effects of sleep deprivation include double vision, confusion, hallucination, hernia, nausea, psychosis, depression, increased blood pressure and hypertension. You can't possibly not deem these symptoms as not being torture. Sleep is literally the brain's food. You can't live without it, and being deprived of it changes your mental function completely.

Water boarding, now you're just being ridiculous. Water boarding literally makes you think you're going to die. It's been known to permenantly damage your psyche.

But hell, let's see if you say the same things about sleep deprivation and water boarding after being forced to stay awake for 5-12 days or being forced to drink huge amounts of water in tiny periods of time until your stomach is near bursting, then being forced to throw it up again and repeat the process.

I don't know whether to be more astounded by your ignorance based off opinioned bullshit from people like Dick Cheney or the fact that you're willing to spew this ignorance in an attempt to further your agenda.

At 11/10/06 11:09 AM, Techware wrote:

At 11/10/06 10:23 AM, bcdemon wrote:

Then see what happens.

Like I said, that's a very stupid way of seeing how things will work.

And that is just the opinion of a kid, who has never been to war, nor has ever developed a plan for an actual war. BTW Tech, did you read the post before mine? I found it very exhilarating.

At 11/10/06 04:52 PM, Peter-II wrote:

Effects of sleep deprivation include double vision, confusion, hallucination, hernia, nausea, psychosis, depression, increased blood pressure and hypertension. You can't possibly not deem these symptoms as not being torture. Sleep is literally the brain's food. You can't live without it, and being deprived of it changes your mental function completely.

Yeah, about half those things on that list are hardly worth being considered torture. The only forms I would consider torture is a whip, severe beating, smashing someone's fingers in with a hammer ect ect..

Everything on that list is weak stuff. Hernia... ok, whoop di doo, I had 2 you don't see me whining about it. Nausea... feeling a little sick?

Well, you are indeed one of those wusses.

At 11/10/06 05:07 PM, bcdemon wrote:

And that is just the opinion of a kid, who has never been to war, nor has ever developed a plan for an actual war. BTW Tech, did you read the post before mine? I found it very exhilarating.

Nope. Never been to war. But when you look up history and Veterans tell you about what they experienced and the tactics they themselves used on the enemy (which wasn't torture... back then), then this is all very very weak stuff.

I'm ashamed people like you have any say in voting.

At 11/10/06 05:09 PM, Techware wrote: Yeah, about half those things on that list are hardly worth being considered torture. The only forms I would consider torture is a whip, severe beating, smashing someone's fingers in with a hammer ect ect..

Everything on that list is weak stuff. Hernia... ok, whoop di doo, I had 2 you don't see me whining about it. Nausea... feeling a little sick?

Well, you are indeed one of those wusses.

I just love this..."about half". Willfully, you ignore such things I listed as psychosis, depression and hallucinating.

But hey, if you're so tough, try staying up for ten days. Then we'll talk.

At 11/10/06 05:18 PM, Peter-II wrote:

I just love this..."about half". Willfully, you ignore such things I listed as psychosis, depression and hallucinating.

No, because I figured you'd have gotten the idea straight away, but apparently I need to bring myself down to baby talk.

But hey, if you're so tough, try staying up for ten days. Then we'll talk.

I have. It's not hard at all really. Typical teenager stuff, mainly because my friend paid me $20 to do it.

No, because I figured you'd have gotten the idea straight away, but apparently I need to bring myself down to baby talk.

And...your argument lies where? Where is it that you, despite all contrasting evidence, single-handedly debunk the horrors of psychosis and depression. I mean after all, you know far more on this subject than, oh, every psychologist in existence.

I have. It's not hard at all really. Typical teenager stuff, mainly because my friend paid me $20 to do it.

It's incredible how much you're willing to bullshit to further your political agenda.

At 11/10/06 05:22 PM, Techware wrote: I have. It's not hard at all really. Typical teenager stuff, mainly because my friend paid me $20 to do it.

Yeah, and I'm sure you saw bloody mary when you said it three times to the mirror in elementary school too.

At 11/10/06 05:36 PM, Freemind wrote:

Yeah, and I'm sure you saw bloody mary when you said it three times to the mirror in elementary school too.

Whatever you say. I mean, getting fed and your only punishment is be very tired... yeah... TORTURE!

Dumbass.

At 11/10/06 05:35 PM, Peter-II wrote:

It's incredible how much you're willing to bullshit to further your political agenda.

Well if you want to be technical, it was a week, not 10 days.

Well if you want to be technical, it was a week, not 10 days.

You are aware that it's practically impossible to stay awake for that length off time apart from by means of force? When I attempted staying awake for as long a period as possible, I simply dropped off with no warning at about 36 hours.

Bearing in mind that if you were being tortured, you wouldn't be allowed a constant shot of caffeine or any other stimulant. The only thing keeping you awake would be the slap in the face every time you lose consciousness.

At 11/10/06 06:01 PM, Peter-II wrote:

You are aware that it's practically impossible to stay awake for that length off time apart from by means of force? When I attempted staying awake for as long a period as possible, I simply dropped off with no warning at about 36 hours.

That's why you HAVE to DO something that keeps you awake to the point where you're unable to fall asleep.

The only thing keeping you awake would be the slap in the face every time you lose consciousness.

Which they rightly deserve.

At 11/10/06 05:41 PM, Techware wrote: Well if you want to be technical, it was a week, not 10 days.

My guess is that this will widdle down to that one time you stayed up past midnight playing videogames when your parents were out of town.

At 11/10/06 06:03 PM, Techware wrote: That's why you HAVE to DO something that keeps you awake to the point where you're unable to fall asleep.

Funnily enough, I was gaming at the time. Your point falls flat on its face and immediately dies.

Which they rightly deserve.

If you insist. That really isn't the point. The point is sleep deprivation is, in fact, a form of torture and can lead to psychosis and depression, which is a point you seem to have ignored.

At 11/10/06 06:05 PM, Freemind wrote:

My guess is that this will widdle down to that one time you stayed up past midnight playing videogames when your parents were out of town.

No. First 2 nights were due to a lot of caffine, 2 were going to the fair and other 2 were from bowling.

At 11/10/06 06:09 PM, Peter-II wrote:

If you insist. That really isn't the point. The point is sleep deprivation is, in fact, a form of torture and can lead to psychosis and depression, which is a point you seem to have ignored.

They were going to blow themselves up anyway. I guess you like to defend terrorists since it's "your" thing.

At 11/10/06 06:10 PM, Techware wrote:

At 11/10/06 06:09 PM, Peter-II wrote: If you insist. That really isn't the point. The point is sleep deprivation is, in fact, a form of torture and can lead to psychosis and depression, which is a point you seem to have ignored.

They were going to blow themselves up anyway. I guess you like to defend terrorists since it's "your" thing.

You're a point-evading, presumptuous moron. I just love how you assume what my political position based entirely on the fact that I contradict bullshit like "waterboarding and sleep deprivation are only torture if you're a wuss". You dumbass, I'm not "democrat" or "republican". I'm not "liberal" or "conservative". I don't fit in with your arsey bastardized political categories, because I think it's all bollocks. Deal it, asshole.

I haven't even said anything about terrorists. I haven't stated my opinion on using methods such as sleep deprivation and waterboarding on suspected terrorists. All I've said is that they are methods of torture. You're simply assuming that I'm what you might see as a treehugging, hippie liberal because I disagree with you.

You do realize it's possible to think interrogation is the right thing to do while thinking waterboarding and sleep deprivation are forms of torture, right? Oh, and feel free to respond to the point that sleep deprivation can lead to psychosis and depression directly. It wouldn't exactly back up your point if you didn't.

At 11/10/06 06:19 PM, Peter-II wrote:

I don't fit in with your arsey bastardized political categories, because I think it's all bollocks. Deal it, asshole.

It doesn't matter. Either way, you're just a wuss.

All I've said is that they are methods of torture.

Which are used on...?

You do realize it's possible to think interrogation

Yes, because asking them to give us information is fantastic.

Interrogator: "Give us Information on Al Queada!"
Terrorist: "Or what?"
Interrogator: "Um... good question".

At 11/10/06 06:35 PM, Techware wrote: It doesn't matter. Either way, you're just a wuss.

Great, yet another ad-hominem attack. Using logical fallacies in an attempt to avoid the issue at hand doesn't exactly back up your point either.

All I've said is that they are methods of torture.

Which are used on...?

Irrelevant. You said waterboarding and sleep deprivation are only forms of torture if you're "a wuss". I refuted your point. How can you need confirmation on that?

Yes, because asking them to give us information is fantastic.

Well you mentioned terrorists, so I assume that's what you were talking about.

What is the use of torture, if not to get information?

And you are yet to respond to the fact that sleep deprivation can lead to psychosis and depression.

I'm glad the Democrats won.

At 11/10/06 06:53 PM, Peter-II wrote:

Great, yet another ad-hominem attack. Using logical fallacies in an attempt to avoid the issue at hand doesn't exactly back up your point either.

Let me save you the trouble here. The thing is, we concieve torture completely differently. You consider not being able to sleep, and depression as torture. People can get over depression. People with depression can also seem like some of the most interactive and energetic people in the world, depending. I consider whipping, beating them senselessly when they didn't do anything, and breaking a man's fingers one by one as torture.

If you can walk away without any physical injuries and later get over your effects, I do not consider that torture as it is not permanent, even tho they deserve every last bit of it.

At 11/10/06 05:22 PM, Techware wrote:

I have. It's not hard at all really. Typical teenager stuff, mainly because my friend paid me $20 to do it.

Pics or it didn't happen. Also, I call bullshit.

At 11/10/06 09:31 PM, goozebump wrote:

Pics or it didn't happen. Also, I call bullshit.

How are pics going to help? For all you know I could've napped inbetween each shot. Also, it's pretty easy to stay awake for 6 days as long as you actually do something at night, like I said, the country Fair, rollercoasters ect.. Altho you will pass out... like I did.

but if dey r elected dey'll tern america commi!!111

since when is tho proper spelling for though?

At 11/8/06 06:42 AM, nukechicken wrote: I really don't care how high the taxes are just so long As the democrats kick some serious ass in the house and senate.

The reason you don't care about taxes is because you haven't had to pay them yet. Once you start you'll be pissed and want them lowered.

Dems. won here in Michigan and that's bad. why? because ever since the dems have been in Michigan we've lost thousands upon thousands of jobs. When we do get something brought to Michigan, its only 300 or 400 jobs and in Detroit or someother city. Not everyone lives in the city which dems around here don't seem to understand. It's going to be downhill for Michigan from here on out...

Now for everyone saying that America is better off now...I really don't think so because the repubicans are going to do what the dems did to them...Filabustter (if you don't know what that means and are posting in this I really think you should learn more politics before opening your mouths) and nothing will get done.

my two cents, and everyone has the right to their two cents.

At 11/10/06 08:22 PM, Techware wrote: Let me save you the trouble here. The thing is, we concieve torture completely differently. You consider not being able to sleep, and depression as torture. People can get over depression. People with depression can also seem like some of the most interactive and energetic people in the world, depending. I consider whipping, beating them senselessly when they didn't do anything, and breaking a man's fingers one by one as torture.

You have no point. It can take years upon years to fully get over depression, whereas broken bones are normally fully healed in a few months at the most. Psychosis is also very often permenant.

I consider putting someone through hell for the time being and possibly ruining their mental state for years to come as torture. You don't, and I don't see why not. There is such thing as mental torture as well as physical torture. Denying that mental torture is a form of torture is the equivalent of denying that physical torture is a form of torture. Simple concepts, really; they are just as painful as each other. Hence why psychological forms of torture are actually used - that and the fact that they leave no marks.

You are yet to explain why water boarding is not a form of torture.

At 11/11/06 08:31 AM, Peter-II wrote:

You have no point. It can take years upon years to fully get over depression, whereas broken bones are normally fully healed in a few months at the most. Psychosis is also very often permenant.

I'm talking about oh... cutting off someone's hand and causing them serious physical pain, pain they might not fully regenerate, unlike psychological where you can be fully back to normal after a while and even if they don't then at least they won't have to go around in a wheelchair the rest of their lives... even tho they deserve it.

But hey, lets not let the Iraqi people have their way and hang Saddam (even tho it was their decision).

You are yet to explain why water boarding is not a form of torture.

I just explained my stance on torture. The fact that you can't seem to understand that i've already explained water torture thru that explains your stupidity, and the world has no need for that (you).

And, you're still a wuss.

At 11/10/06 06:03 PM, Techware wrote:

At 11/10/06 06:01 PM, Peter-II wrote: The only thing keeping you awake would be the slap in the face every time you lose consciousness.

Which they rightly deserve.

So let's get this straight, if I were to take YOU, arrest you, fly you to a foreign detention camp, them chain you into a stress position, blast loud music into your cold cell and dump cold water on you, hit you every time it looked like you were falling asleep, and kept this up this treatment for a few months, despite never charging you with anything or presenting any sort of evidence against you, you would "rightly deserve" it?

At 11/11/06 10:48 AM, Techware wrote: I'm talking about oh... cutting off someone's hand and causing them serious physical pain, pain they might not fully regenerate, unlike psychological where you can be fully back to normal after a while and even if they don't then at least they won't have to go around in a wheelchair the rest of their lives... even tho they deserve it.

Your reading comprehension skills are well and truly lacking. You named breaking fingers, beating people senselessly and whipping as forms of torture, not cutting off hands. I don't know if it's more funny or pathetic how you've reformatted your argument to justify your position in this particular debate.

Chances are, cutting off hands isn't even used that often as a form of torture because the marks left are too damn obvious.

Hah. I say psychosis and depression can be permenant / last for a good number of years and you say you can be fully normal after a while. You really don't have a clue, do you?

But hey, lets not let the Iraqi people have their way and hang Saddam (even tho it was their decision).

What the fuck. I haven't said anything about the Iraqi people or the hanging of Saddam.

You couldn't get more presumptuous if you tried.

You are yet to explain why water boarding is not a form of torture.

I just explained my stance on torture. The fact that you can't seem to understand that i've already explained water torture thru that explains your stupidity, and the world has no need for that (you).

Yes, you've explained your stance on torture. However, you are yet to explain why water boarding is only a form of torture "if you're a wuss". I can only assume that this is because this position in injustifiable because it's so damn stupid and illogical.

And, you're still a wuss.

And, you're still a moron.