Attention Libertarian Flash Gurus!

[iiREDii]

I just wanted to see if there was some interest in making a Libertarian oriented flash movie for myspace... something similair to Captain Capitalist but obvioulsy without the sarcasm and blatant biased against REAL capitalism.

I was thinking we coudl go one of two directions:
1 serious
2 funny

Keeping it serious might be a bit moe boring but woudl be alot more informative, dispelling myths about the capitalist ideals and exposign collectivist theory for what it is... dogma. Funny would be directly along the lines of Captain Capitalism. Instead of defending Capitalism though perhaps we shoudl take the offensive and Create our own Comrade Communism? or Commisar Communism? And poke fun of from there?

Its jsut a pet idea I have had for sometime and owuld really like to see if there was interest in collaborating on this project. Respond here if your interested of hit me at [e-mail]... please place "Libertarian Flash" in the subject.

[Begoner]

Any economic policy with which you do not agree is "dogma," eh? Well, if you must make another biased, pro-capitalist movie, at least have the common decency to call it "Compeer Communist," compeer being such a cool word and all.

[iiREDii]

At 11/3/06 03:06 PM, Begoner wrote: Any economic policy with which you do not agree is "dogma," eh? Well, if you must make another biased, pro-capitalist movie, at least have the common decency to call it "Compeer Communist," compeer being such a cool word and all.

Of course the movie will be biased. They always are. Being biased doesnt mean you arent being all ecompasing nor does it exclude true journalism.

Communism, along with all other collectivist theories, is based on nothing but dogma. On some twisted atruistic philosphy of mob rule. Collectivism is slavery to the majority pure and simple. Only in an anarchocapitalist society, are you truly FREE. Free to do wat you please with your life liberty and property so long as you do not interfere with anyone elses L L or P. A society where consentual contract is the rule. If the market isnt free, then there is no freedom. Read some rothbard, hayek, mises, CATO papers, and come back.

Compeer is far too esoteric. Commissar is more widely known as well as Captain.

[Begoner]

Being biased doesnt mean you arent being all ecompasing nor does it exclude true journalism.

Actually, that would the very definition of biased -- not encompassing every viewpoint but instead focusing on a single one.

Collectivism is slavery to the majority pure and simple.

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand. Are you against democracy? Would you consider all American citizens "slaves" because they can vote for whomever they wish, and the person with the greatest amount of votes typically wins? Additionally, countries such as Sweden are much freer than the US, despite their more social economic model. The ultra-capitalistic US has an extremely rigid social structure -- it is very hard to move up in society if you are born poor. That's the real slavery -- your deluded, misguided faith in the "free" market. Guess what? Market forces are what take away your freedom -- they're what make you work long hours for exploitative pay, not socialist systems.

[iiREDii]

At 11/3/06 03:58 PM, Begoner wrote:

Collectivism is slavery to the majority pure and simple.

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand. Are you against democracy? Would you consider all American citizens "slaves" because they can vote for whomever they wish, and the person with the greatest amount of votes typically wins? Additionally, countries such as Sweden are much freer than the US, despite their more social economic model. The ultra-capitalistic US has an extremely rigid social structure -- it is very hard to move up in society if you are born poor. That's the real slavery -- your deluded, misguided faith in the "free" market. Guess what? Market forces are what take away your freedom -- they're what make you work long hours for exploitative pay, not socialist systems.

I most cetainely AM against democracy.Why is enslaving the 49% because the 51% voted yes, just? It isnt.

If you would liek to talk about this furhter IM me at Odin248(AIM). I woudl enjoy showing you how you ar ebeing fooled to support more state control over your life in the name of "fairness". How the statists are fooling you into thinking your ills are being caused by FREEDOM, by a FREE market. Most of thsese ills have there ROOT in governemtn control. In state legislation. The corrupting influence is the state! Its law! And your solution is to impose more law? More of the disease to treat the symptoms?

[JakeHero]

At 11/3/06 03:58 PM, Begoner wrote: The ultra-capitalistic US has an extremely rigid social structure -- it is very hard to move up in society if you are born poor. That's the real slavery -- your deluded, misguided faith in the "free" market.

Someone clearly doesn't grasp economics or the concept of a mixed-economy. No, the US isn't ultra-capitalist, hell it's not capitalist, but neither is any other country. If the US was capitalist there would be no SS, government-controlled-sectors, taxation, public property or federal government at all.

[TwO-FaCeD-PaRaNoID]

Libertarianism is noble, so propaganda for this noble view is noble! You have my blessings and encouragement.

[Slizor]

Free to do wat you please with your life liberty and property so long as you do not interfere with anyone elses L L or P.

If there is no state then how are infringments on someone's life, liberty or property dealt with?

[SomeNick]

At 11/3/06 12:16 PM, iiREDii wrote: I just wanted to see if there was some interest in making a Libertarian oriented flash movie for myspace...

Learn to make flash, instead of getting a Posse to help you stand up.

[iiREDii]

At 1/4/07 08:24 AM, Slizor wrote:

Free to do wat you please with your life liberty and property so long as you do not interfere with anyone elses L L or P.

If there is no state then how are infringments on someone's life, liberty or property dealt with?

private courts and law systems. private courts and police have existed for ages. Admiral and Mercantile law was orgiinally developed much like common law. On a free amrket and voluntarily. It was not till much later that governments took it over. Private arbitrators and 'law merchants' were once common place. Even in Rome.

The state is not neccesary for protection. And indeed they often hinder or outlaw anyone who attempts to offer that service or provide for their own defense.... anyone who challenges their monopoly on protection services is swiftly dealt with.

[Humbucker740]

At 1/4/07 09:19 AM, SomeNick wrote:

At 11/3/06 12:16 PM, iiREDii wrote: I just wanted to see if there was some interest in making a Libertarian oriented flash movie for myspace...

Learn to make flash, instead of getting a Posse to help you stand up.

I think hes proposing an idea, not trying to get people to do his work. Hes contributing with mental thoughts. Maybe he just sucks at flash and doesn't want to get better, I suck at flash and don't plan on getting better.

[K-RadPie]

I would like to help create this flash movie.

[animehater]

At 12/14/07 04:36 PM, K-RadPie wrote: I would like to help create this flash movie.

What about the movement man! Although the battle of flash against Communism does seem like an interesting concept. Does it have to be libertarian only? Are you evens till doing this seeing as this thread was made in 06'?

[K-RadPie]

At 12/14/07 04:40 PM, animehater wrote: What about the movement man!

You will find my uber flash skillz are good enough to do two movies at the same time.

Are you evens till doing this seeing as this thread was made in 06'?

Apparently he is, considering he just bumped it today.

[animehater]

At 12/14/07 04:53 PM, K-RadPie wrote: You will find my uber flash skillz are good enough to do two movies at the same time.

I meant the fact it's libertarian. Though we do believe in economic freedom....

Apparently he is, considering he just bumped it today.

Desperate I guess.

[SmilezRoyale]

Exactly what existing utopia is the united states being compared to so that social mobility is simply that poor and requires individuals to be handed money by the government because the system is simply that twisted?

[Elfer]

At 11/3/06 12:16 PM, iiREDii wrote: I just wanted to see if there was some interest in making a Libertarian oriented flash movie for myspace... something similair to Captain Capitalist but obvioulsy without the sarcasm and blatant biased against REAL capitalism.

I was thinking we coudl go one of two directions:
1 serious
2 funny

Things with a political agenda are never funny

[SmilezRoyale]

At 12/14/07 08:19 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 11/3/06 12:16 PM, iiREDii wrote: I just wanted to see if there was some interest in making a Libertarian oriented flash movie for myspace... something similair to Captain Capitalist but obvioulsy without the sarcasm and blatant biased against REAL capitalism.

I was thinking we coudl go one of two directions:
1 serious
2 funny

Things with a political agenda are never funny

I thought captain capitalism was funny, and super liberals probably find the george bush show to be very funny.

[Elfer]

At 12/14/07 08:21 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I thought captain capitalism was funny, and super liberals probably find the george bush show to be very funny.

That's recognition, not comedy. Pandering to your own political audience is like shooting fish in a barrel, but you're shooting them with jokes, and the fish are stupid.

[iiREDii]

At 12/14/07 04:27 PM, Humbucker740 wrote:

At 1/4/07 09:19 AM, SomeNick wrote:

At 11/3/06 12:16 PM, iiREDii wrote: I just wanted to see if there was some interest in making a Libertarian oriented flash movie for myspace...

Learn to make flash, instead of getting a Posse to help you stand up.

I think hes proposing an idea, not trying to get people to do his work. Hes contributing with mental thoughts. Maybe he just sucks at flash and doesn't want to get better, I suck at flash and don't plan on getting better.

I didnt get any replies the first time SO i went back and found it and bumped it again. I am pretty good with flash and a good illustrator I believe. I am nto trying to get someone to do my work for me, only to collaborate with and maybe start a sting of libertarian flash pieces.

What one should keep in mind here is that when I say Libertarian, I mean a REAL libertarian. In other words, a individualist/market anarchist. Agorist. Volunteerist. I would like to note that I am not opposed to libertarian socialists or other forms of collective anarchism so long as they remain voluntary, non coercive, and non aggressive.

If anyoen is interested in collaborating hit me on AIM at Odin248, or email me at thorsmitersaw(at)gmail.com

please put something like "Flash collab" in the subject or soemthing.

[Kev-o]

Too bad anarcho-capitalists aren't really anarchists at all...

[animehater]

At 12/15/07 09:57 PM, Kev-o wrote: Too bad anarcho-capitalists aren't really anarchists at all...

Because they are not anti capitalist? Now you're creating your own definition of anarchy?

[Kev-o]

At 12/15/07 10:15 PM, animehater wrote:

At 12/15/07 09:57 PM, Kev-o wrote: Too bad anarcho-capitalists aren't really anarchists at all...

Because they are not anti capitalist? Now you're creating your own definition of anarchy?

Anarcho-capitalists support private property, which goes against the ideas of traditional anarchists such as William Godwin, and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon. Not too mention anarcho-capitalism supports the idea of police officers, which therefore means it's not anarchism, as there's someone in control. However, they argue since there's no state, it's anarchism, but they still believe in laws. It also creates class division, and a divided society is one that will not work. The answer is self-evident, and also explains why most "anarcho"-capitalists are libretarian conservatives.

They act like there's no freedom in things like anarcho-syndicalism, anarcho-communism, anarcho-collectivism, etc., however capitalism leads to exploitation.

Whether they believe it or not, there is a present government.

[K-RadPie]

Kev-o, what is your definition of freedom?

[Boke]

I'll watch it

[Kev-o]

At 12/17/07 04:52 PM, K-RadPie wrote: Kev-o, what is your definition of freedom?

My definition of freedom is doing as you please, without treading on others, without a government ruling over every aspect of your life. Capitalism is a system built off of exploitation, of the Earth, and of your fellow man. It creates a society in which we have buissness owners, workers; rich and poor. It creates a class division, inequality. To achieve an ideal anarchist society, all men and women must be equal. Capitalism creates a higherarchy of people ruling over others, the rich ruling over the poor. It creates oppression through a "free market". A divided society cannot stand.

[iiREDii]

At 12/17/07 04:00 PM, Kev-o wrote:

At 12/15/07 10:15 PM, animehater wrote:

At 12/15/07 09:57 PM, Kev-o wrote: Too bad anarcho-capitalists aren't really anarchists at all...

Because they are not anti capitalist? Now you're creating your own definition of anarchy?

Anarcho-capitalists support private property, which goes against the ideas of traditional anarchists such as William Godwin, and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon. Not too mention anarcho-capitalism supports the idea of police officers, which therefore means it's not anarchism, as there's someone in control. However, they argue since there's no state, it's anarchism, but they still believe in laws. It also creates class division, and a divided society is one that will not work. The answer is self-evident, and also explains why most "anarcho"-capitalists are libretarian conservatives.

They act like there's no freedom in things like anarcho-syndicalism, anarcho-communism, anarcho-collectivism, etc., however capitalism leads to exploitation.

Whether they believe it or not, there is a present government.

There is a strong tradition of property rights within anarchism. You do not have a monopoly upon the term. Prodhoun and Spooner and many individualist and mutualist and volunteerist anarchists. The Anarchists without adjectives movement was started to unite the two schools of thought under one roof against the common enemy, the coercive state.

Your answer is not self evident by any means. We do not support laws, that just shows your own ignorance. And your failure to see how class is not always enforced or how democracy creates class divide between the majority and the minority shows your shallow level of analysis.

[iiREDii]

At 12/18/07 03:50 PM, Kev-o wrote:

At 12/17/07 04:52 PM, K-RadPie wrote: Kev-o, what is your definition of freedom?

My definition of freedom is doing as you please, without treading on others, without a government ruling over every aspect of your life. Capitalism is a system built off of exploitation, of the Earth, and of your fellow man. It creates a society in which we have buissness owners, workers; rich and poor. It creates a class division, inequality. To achieve an ideal anarchist society, all men and women must be equal. Capitalism creates a higherarchy of people ruling over others, the rich ruling over the poor. It creates oppression through a "free market". A divided society cannot stand.

Capitalism is not what I support. Capitalism is often what people associate with the states socialized/cartelized protection of state sanctioned and approved business... its coercion.. its mercantilism. I support free markets free from aggressive use of force. All men freely able to trade the products of their labor as they see fit.

Free markets, truly free and voluntary association, does not force any association upon anyone. It does not seek to destroy and tar down in the name of equality nor murder in the name of fairness. It is benign and neglectful of you and yours. It does not spread "union" through blood spilling and does not force people into communal societies they do not wish to be apart of. In short. It is peaceful.

I would encourage you to read Lysander Spooner, Thoreau, Voltairine De Cleyre, And especially Murray Rothbard as his economic and individual rights analysis is vital.

We are not enemies if you truly disprove of violence to achieve your goals.

[Kev-o]

At 12/19/07 02:32 AM, iiREDii wrote:

There is a strong tradition of property rights within anarchism. You do not have a monopoly upon the term. Prodhoun and Spooner and many individualist and mutualist and volunteerist anarchists. The Anarchists without adjectives movement was started to unite the two schools of thought under one roof against the common enemy, the coercive state.

Your answer is not self evident by any means. We do not support laws, that just shows your own ignorance. And your failure to see how class is not always enforced or how democracy creates class divide between the majority and the minority shows your shallow level of analysis.

The enemy is not just the state, but all forms of opression, capitalism included.

To advocate police, is to advocate laws, what else are they to enforce? Democracy certainly has a part in the division of class, but capitalism is the driving force. Capitalism creates the rich and poor, and the rich control the state.