Anti-War/American Comparisons

[Dagodevas]

Now I'm no Critical Thinking teacher, but I prefer to think that I'm a reasonably logical guy, which leads me to say this.

I'm behind President Bush in his decision to pursue this war on Iraq and I respect the people who make LOGICAL arguments against the war (so "It's all about the oil" doesn't count). I also respect the opinions of those who argue against those who do not support the war. However, what I can't stand for are those who say that all those who oppose the war are anti-American. This is just a silly argument.

Sure, people who actually ARE anti-American around the world oppose the war, but dammit, that doesn't mean that those who oppose the war are anti-American. Some are very great supporters of America, which is why they are protesting it. Their critical nature on our country's policy shows us their care for America. An apathetic person would not have an opinion, period; So I'm glad that there are so many Americans who have a strong opinion on this issue.

I enjoy the support I get from others who support the war with me when I give my two cents here in the Politics forum, but these "You're just anti-American" claims are absolutely unacceptable. They are just as inaccurate as the "No Blood For Oil" claim (maybe more) and it makes us look stupid in the eyes of those who were arguing against.

That's all. Thanks. Now play nice.

Kazuo Kiriyama

[TheShrike]

Thanks. I tried explainig to nemesisz once that because I am anti-war doesn't mean I am anti-american, or even left-wing.

He didn't get it, of course.

[Dig-the-Man]

You are so very right. People who are anti-war are not always anti-american and non-patriotic.

But for the love of whatever you believe in a divine entity: PLEASE ARGUE FROM LOGIC

Shrike, you are cool in my books.

[VasIndustries]

Thank you. I'm anti-war, but I'm not anti-america. In fact, I'm what some call an original patriot. Basically, I whole-heartedly believe in what the constitution says, and I try to live accordingly. It is my right as an American to think that the war isn't necessary. See, a democracy doesn't mean everyone agrees, so the "If you don't like it, get out" attitude is unacceptable, as well as un-american. However, more and more people seem to subscribe to that theory. Plenty can be found on this board alone, but it is wide spread.

Anyone who thinks that you need to follow the ideas of their leader is clearly a sheep, determinably against american ideals, and willingly brainless.

[benisveryc00l]

by reading your post it appears that disagreeing with you is in your opinion illogical

[Der-Ubermensch]

Despite what you're saying, there has indeed been a rise of hatred for the people and government of the United States.
I think that alot of the recently felt anti-American sentiment is due to the fact that the United States is going it alone (mostly anyway). War is too much of an important issue to be rushed into, and such was done with Iraq, in my opinion. The basic question running through alot of people's minds around the world is " Who the hell do they think they are?". That's innocent enough..
The wave of American bashing will decline with the passage of time..

[Dagodevas]

At 3/26/03 09:51 PM, benisveryc00l wrote: by reading your post it appears that disagreeing with you is in your opinion illogical

Well, if you disagree with the point I made about how not all people who are anti-war are also anti-American, then yes, it would seem a bit illogical. Anti-war doesn't necessarily mean anti-American. I'm not saying that everything else I've said in the past is right, but I do stand firmly behind this statement.

Kazuo Kiriyama

[Jiperly]

isn't it in the constitution that if your are suffering a large series of equalities its not your right, but DUTY to protest? doesn't that make you more patriotic than both the people standing around complaining about the issue and the people sitting around complaining about the protesters

[NJDeadzone]

At 3/26/03 11:34 PM, Jiperly wrote: isn't it in the constitution that if your are suffering a large series of equalities its not your right, but DUTY to protest?

Not even the Lockean principles mention "duty" to protest, however it's inevitable that an amount of people sufficient to promote change will do so in time.

[mysecondstar]

your arguement is sound. but there are other things to keep in mind.

for instance, for those who are against the war and choose to exercise their right to assemble, behold.

in just about every single major city in the US has had numerous anti-war protests. and in every city the entire police force in that city will be on duty for crowd control. that on top of their already stenuous duty of patrolling and protecting their city from terrorist attack. millions of dollars are being spent on police overtime alone. that comes straight out of the taxpayers dollars. and we all pay taxes. not only will assembling directly effect our pockets but also our security.

i agree that not all anti-war advocates are anti- American. i am anti-war as well. but with US interests in mind i think twice before i join in any kind of rally. i'm not about to compromise our security or my paycheck to protest a war already underway.

[Dagodevas]

At 3/28/03 02:38 AM, mysecondstar wrote: your arguement is sound. but there are other things to keep in mind.

for instance, for those who are against the war and choose to exercise their right to assemble, behold.

in just about every single major city in the US has had numerous anti-war protests. and in every city the entire police force in that city will be on duty for crowd control. that on top of their already stenuous duty of patrolling and protecting their city from terrorist attack. millions of dollars are being spent on police overtime alone. that comes straight out of the taxpayers dollars. and we all pay taxes. not only will assembling directly effect our pockets but also our security.

i agree that not all anti-war advocates are anti- American. i am anti-war as well. but with US interests in mind i think twice before i join in any kind of rally. i'm not about to compromise our security or my paycheck to protest a war already underway.

Of all of the things I've heard people say on this board, this ranks somewhere in the top 5 as far as most Observant and Intelligent. I never thought of that before. Excellent observation!

Kazuo Kiriyama

[mysecondstar]

At 3/28/03 03:09 AM, Kazuo_Kiriyama wrote: Of all of the things I've heard people say on this board, this ranks somewhere in the top 5 as far as most Observant and Intelligent. I never thought of that before. Excellent observation!

Kazuo Kiriyama

hehe i r smart ^_^

[JMHX]

I agree with you, Kazou, but that doesn't change the fact that people who protest here in Indianapolis are honked at and get things thrown at them while people yell "Go back to Iraq you Anti-US bastard". I've seen police pulling them over, but too many get away unpunished, thinking this is just fine.

It bothers me a bit too much to think we act like children when it comes down to this subject.

[Dagodevas]

At 3/28/03 09:45 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: I agree with you, Kazou, but that doesn't change the fact that people who protest here in Indianapolis are honked at and get things thrown at them while people yell "Go back to Iraq you Anti-US bastard". I've seen police pulling them over, but too many get away unpunished, thinking this is just fine.

It bothers me a bit too much to think we act like children when it comes down to this subject.

That is terrible. Last time I checked, they weren't lying down in the middle of the street though making life difficult for everyone. It is a bad thing that is happening to those people. I'm sorry to hear that.

Kazuo Kiriyama

[Jiperly]

At 3/28/03 02:38 AM, mysecondstar wrote: your arguement is sound. but there are other things to keep in mind.

for instance, for those who are against the war and choose to exercise their right to assemble, behold.

in just about every single major city in the US has had numerous anti-war protests. and in every city the entire police force in that city will be on duty for crowd control. that on top of their already stenuous duty of patrolling and protecting their city from terrorist attack. millions of dollars are being spent on police overtime alone. that comes straight out of the taxpayers dollars. and we all pay taxes. not only will assembling directly effect our pockets but also our security.

i agree that not all anti-war advocates are anti- American. i am anti-war as well. but with US interests in mind i think twice before i join in any kind of rally. i'm not about to compromise our security or my paycheck to protest a war already underway.

If you don't stand and let yourself be heard, then the politicains will care even less on your opinion on the war- If no one protests it, then they won't know how strong the opposition is(ie. Britian government is a supporter of the war, but 1.5 Million, or 15% of all the protestors worldwide, protested on February 15, 2003 over the war......)

[mysecondstar]

At 3/28/03 11:58 AM, Jiperly wrote: If you don't stand and let yourself be heard, then the politicains will care even less on your opinion on the war- If no one protests it, then they won't know how strong the opposition is(ie. Britian government is a supporter of the war, but 1.5 Million, or 15% of all the protestors worldwide, protested on February 15, 2003 over the war......)

either way it wouldn't be strong enough. hundreds of thousands marched in NYC in the past month. the city itself is more than 10 million. hardly a scratch in the population. also you can be heard without protesting. it's called the elections. if you don't like it, vote for someone else.

[karasz]

At 3/28/03 10:04 PM, mysecondstar wrote:

At 3/28/03 11:58 AM, Jiperly wrote: If you don't stand and let yourself be heard, then the politicains will care even less on your opinion on the war- If no one protests it, then they won't know how strong the opposition is(ie. Britian government is a supporter of the war, but 1.5 Million, or 15% of all the protestors worldwide, protested on February 15, 2003 over the war......)

either way it wouldn't be strong enough. hundreds of thousands marched in NYC in the past month. the city itself is more than 10 million. hardly a scratch in the population. also you can be heard without protesting. it's called the elections. if you don't like it, vote for someone else.

500k is 5% of 10 mill pretty damn good to protest in the same place a terror attack took place... ANYWAY, a decent percentage of the world is against the war, but u are correct in that protesting is useless... VOTING is the best way to reform the government...

[NEMESiSZ]

Haha, the people who hate bush are the ones who elected him, by throwing away their votes to Nader, and detracting from Gore, the only other real candidate.

[AbstractVagabond]

At 3/28/03 10:20 PM, NEMESiSZ wrote: Haha, the people who hate bush are the ones who elected him, by throwing away their votes to Nader, and detracting from Gore, the only other real candidate.

That is such bullshit logic. No offense. There are those, like me, who hated both. Us few may hate Bush, but that doesn't mean we'd rather have had Gore at the helm. I voted for neither in 2000. My way of saying "We're screwed no matter what".

[Jiperly]

who in the year 2000 saw that
a)in one year the largest American Attack would occur in America?
b)Bush would push for a war in Iraq?

and don't act like we have been given a referandum, because we weren't. The fact that the votes were so close to each other brings into the question on who voted for whom......

[Jiperly]

i'm sorry- i must be tired or something....lemme try that one again

who in the year 2000, before the elections, saw that
a)in one year the largest terrorist Attack would occur in America?
b)Bush would invade Iraq in 3 years?

and don't act like we have been given a referandum, because we weren't. The fact that the votes were so close to each other brings into the question on who voted for whom......

[House-Of-Leaves]

At 3/26/03 03:34 PM, Dig_the_Man wrote: You are so very right. People who are anti-war are not always anti-american and non-patriotic.

But for the love of whatever you believe in a divine entity: PLEASE ARGUE FROM LOGIC

Shrike, you are cool in my books.

I decided to quote this one instead of the starting post, because it's shorter. :)

I agree, and it's something I've been saying all along. I love logic. It loves me.

Anyway, I too see the reasoning behind mysecondstar's statement about the rallys and the like. Let me say this:

I will never or HAVE never had any part in violence. I've never even -hit- someone. *lol* I stay peaceful in my demonstrations. I actually stopped going when the news reported how much the demonstrations cost the police in overtime. They never tried stopping us from our peaceful protesting, except for a few individual policemen that crossed lines, but other than that, we weren't censored. I've decided that when we have schools closing, teachers working for free, jails emptying and courtrooms shutting down...priorities need to take hold. They're not stopping me from demonstrating. I just don't want to be the reason my child doesn't get a quality education.

I don't agree with the 'it's already underway, let it go' reasoning, but that's just personal beliefs and what not. The bottom line, for me, was priorities.

[Alejandro1]

I'm conservative , I don't want to see our troops put into harm's way, but we can't resolve these issues with Saddam in any other way but war. If our problems could be resolved peacefully, it wouldn't take 13 years of demands to get Saddam to comply. Anyway, you aren't un-patriotic if you disagree with the war, but you shouldn't be protesting in the streets. The war's a reality; you have to face the facts. It's on the tv, the newspapers, the internet, everywhere. You must respect President Bush's decision and you must support the war effort; send supplies to soldiers in Iraq and the such.

Public protesting was not delt with kindly in WWI or WWII. Be supportive of our troops who are defending your freedom.

[Anti-corruption]

Posted: 3/28/03 02:38 AM

your arguement is sound. but there are other things to keep in mind.

for instance, for those who are against the war and choose to exercise their right to assemble, behold.

in just about every single major city in the US has had numerous anti-war protests. and in every city the entire police force in that city will be on duty for crowd control. that on top of their already stenuous duty of patrolling and protecting their city from terrorist attack. millions of dollars are being spent on police overtime alone. that comes straight out of the taxpayers dollars. and we all pay taxes. not only will assembling directly effect our pockets but also our security.

i agree that not all anti-war advocates are anti- American. i am anti-war as well. but with US interests in mind i think twice before i join in any kind of rally. i'm not about to compromise our security or my paycheck to protest a war already underway.

looks like doing the wrong stuff will lead to retribution. :+) so ppl should stop and think before doing anything. Do something that is constructive to the public. this at least give the public some respect of you for your righteous cause.