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At 11/1/06 09:30 AM, CronoMan wrote:

At 10/31/06 02:07 PM, kb-resin wrote:

At 10/31/06 02:39 AM, CronoMan wrote: Could you make a full-screen 3D software renderer in Java?

No.

Wrong. You can make a very nice full screen exclusive, actively rendered software renderer with page flipping using the java3d library. I've never built a renderer in any other language, but I found it quite easy to do in Java.

At 11/2/06 07:51 AM, amaterasu wrote:

At 11/1/06 09:30 AM, CronoMan wrote:

At 10/31/06 02:07 PM, kb-resin wrote:

At 10/31/06 02:39 AM, CronoMan wrote: Could you make a full-screen 3D software renderer in Java?

No.

Wrong. You can make a very nice full screen exclusive, actively rendered software renderer with page flipping using the java3d library. I've never built a renderer in any other language, but I found it quite easy to do in Java.

That's no software renderer made in java
that is a software renderer written in C++ and included as a module for Java
kind of a big difference ;)

I'm done discussing Java now

imo it's not even discussible.

1 : C++ is the most powerful development tool currently avaible. period. (you do now C++ also supports everything Java supports of design implementations ++)
2 : Java sucks
3 : You should use C# instead. (why? Try it and you'll quickly see how much more professionally it's done (before you say anything about cross-platform : http://www.bash.org/?338364))
4 : And NO YOU CAN'T MAKE A FREAKING SOFTWARE 3D RENDERER BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD DIE CAUSE THEY WILL STAB THEMSELVES IN THE EYE A COUPLE OF SECONDS AFTER IT HAS SHOWN ITS RIDICOLOUSLY SLOW REDRAW AND REFRESH RATES
(it is a reason to why all evne the hardware based Java 3D Engines aren't used in the gaming industry.)

5 : Please stop "not worrying about speed" because then you suck. People like you are the ones that made me crush my fucking keyboard when playing games like Medal Of Honor, Battlefield, Söldner, Sacred and all those retarded games.
Seriously, Quake 3 ran at about 200fps on my old computer, Medal Of Honor ran at about ... 15fps? IT'S THE SAME FUCKING ENGINE BUT WITH LOWER RES TEXTURES

6 : I am proud of living "10 years behind" because I actually care about the quality of an application.

I for one like putting some effort into things, not just "u noob i liek wrot a prgrm in java in liek 2 minutes LOL!!!11 and her u r sitting and using stupid c++ and crap rofl"
and
"omfg i liek h8 microsoft bill gates suxx and stuff lol"
and
"I'LL PUBLISH MY CALCULATOR UNDER GPL"

At 11/4/06 10:27 AM, CronoMan wrote: I'm done discussing Java now

imo it's not even discussible.

1 : C++ is the most powerful development tool currently avaible. period.

Does that mean we Have to use it?

2 : Java sucks

That is your opinion.

3 : You should use C# instead.

If i want to use Java, then i can. Nothing is forcing me over to C#.

4 : And NO YOU CAN'T MAKE A FREAKING SOFTWARE 3D RENDERER BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD DIE CAUSE THEY WILL STAB THEMSELVES IN THE EYE A COUPLE OF SECONDS AFTER IT HAS SHOWN ITS RIDICOLOUSLY SLOW REDRAW AND REFRESH RATES

What?

(it is a reason to why all evne the hardware based Java 3D Engines aren't used in the gaming industry.)

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

5 : Please stop "not worrying about speed" because then you suck.

Java executes at least 3 times as fast as Flash, do all flash developers "Not worry about speed"?

6 : I am proud of living "10 years behind" because I actually care about the quality of an application.

And Java programmers don't? Think again.

I for one like putting some effort into things, not just "u noob i liek wrot a prgrm in java in liek 2 minutes LOL!!!11 and her u r sitting and using stupid c++ and crap rofl"

Java programmers actually put alot of work into their applications, much like c++ programmers.

"omfg i liek h8 microsoft bill gates suxx and stuff lol"

Haha.

"I'LL PUBLISH MY CALCULATOR UNDER GPL"

Really? Send me the source code!

At 11/4/06 11:31 AM, Jordan wrote:

1 : C++ is the most powerful development tool currently avaible. period.

Does that mean we Have to use it?

No, but it means you SHOULD.

2 : Java sucks

That is your opinion.

And the opinion of 99% of all the professional programmers.

3 : You should use C# instead.

If i want to use Java, then i can. Nothing is forcing me over to C#.

Only decency, speed, ...

4 : And NO YOU CAN'T MAKE A FREAKING SOFTWARE 3D RENDERER BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD DIE CAUSE THEY WILL STAB THEMSELVES IN THE EYE A COUPLE OF SECONDS AFTER IT HAS SHOWN ITS RIDICOLOUSLY SLOW REDRAW AND REFRESH RATES

What?

Java is too slow to render 3D correctly, that's what he's saying.

(it is a reason to why all evne the hardware based Java 3D Engines aren't used in the gaming industry.)

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

He's saying that nobody uses Java for 3D engines in the game industry, for the reason in the above point.

5 : Please stop "not worrying about speed" because then you suck.

Java executes at least 3 times as fast as Flash, do all flash developers "Not worry about speed"?

No, but Flash isn't a fast-growing language that people actually use to make half-decent programs with. Flash is meant for games and the likes, not for full-blown applications.

6 : I am proud of living "10 years behind" because I actually care about the quality of an application.

And Java programmers don't? Think again.

Obviously not, they use Java

I for one like putting some effort into things, not just "u noob i liek wrot a prgrm in java in liek 2 minutes LOL!!!11 and her u r sitting and using stupid c++ and crap rofl"

Java programmers actually put alot of work into their applications, much like c++ programmers.

Yeah, because it takes half of the dev time to load all the classes needed.

I didn't want to be mistaken. I wouldn't actually use Java for a major game project, but I was just making the point that it's doable with 3d rendering. Java isn't that good for high quality graphics games yet, but then again, graphics aren't everything. I wouldn't use Java for my games, just out of preference, but it isn't completely useless like you guys are making it out to be. No programming language is "better" than any other, it's just all about what the programmer prefers and how the language's strengths and weaknesses will work with the implementation.

At 11/4/06 10:27 AM, CronoMan wrote: 5 : Please stop "not worrying about speed" because then you suck. People like you are the ones that made me crush my fucking keyboard when playing games like Medal Of Honor, Battlefield, Söldner, Sacred and all those retarded games.
Seriously, Quake 3 ran at about 200fps on my old computer, Medal Of Honor ran at about ... 15fps? IT'S THE SAME FUCKING ENGINE BUT WITH LOWER RES TEXTURES

I've come to the shocking realization that you have no clue what the software industry it about. You seem to think that games are the whole industry. You realize that people eventually grow up and stop playing stupid games, right?

well ive been reading this thread for quite a while and i dont get a word that you guys are talkin about am I dumb or are YOU guys really smart just a little bit of help on what were talkin about here

At 11/4/06 07:12 PM, zero1010 wrote: well ive been reading this thread for quite a while and i dont get a word that you guys are talkin about am I dumb or are YOU guys really smart just a little bit of help on what were talkin about here

Clash of the titans; C++ vs JAVA.

My 2 cents, doesn't matter if it's slow or whatever, Java is an excellent language to learn object oriented programming in. You don't have to use it if you don't want to.

That and some of my favorite apps were written in Java, so it's not all bad.

At 11/2/06 02:49 AM, White-Rhyno wrote: If the VM is already loaded then the difference between loading a Java program and a C program are discerable only by timestamps. But loading all that shit from scratch? Not 2 minutes, but long enough to make me wonder if anything is happening.

Actually those marks I had were pretty accurate for loading applications simply from the start. To notice things it barely takes a second (especially in many of my GUI application,) for a full load it takes about the amount of time I posted earlier for the given cases,

At 11/4/06 11:46 AM, elbekko wrote: No, but it means you SHOULD.

It is obvious you are an amatuer software engineer.

And the opinion of 99% of all the professional programmers.

You know, most statistics are a lie, and so far from what I've seen, I don't expect you to be any different. So either post facts and grow up or just stay in a dream-world. I don't care, you're not my problem, but you'd be well advised to take a tip and use some of that grey matter.

Only decency, speed, ...

Or peer-pressure! Because that's the ultimate decision maker and it matters more than anything else!!!

4 : And NO YOU CAN'T MAKE A FREAKING SOFTWARE 3D RENDERER BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD DIE CAUSE THEY WILL STAB THEMSELVES IN THE EYE A COUPLE OF SECONDS AFTER IT HAS SHOWN ITS RIDICOLOUSLY SLOW REDRAW AND REFRESH RATES

What?

Java is too slow to render 3D correctly, that's what he's saying.

(it is a reason to why all evne the hardware based Java 3D Engines aren't used in the gaming industry.)

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

He's saying that nobody uses Java for 3D engines in the game industry, for the reason in the above point.

5 : Please stop "not worrying about speed" because then you suck.

Blah blah blah. Of course I'll stop because of the ultimate and absolute opinion of some software developer on some forum. In fact because of you I'll write EVERYTHING in assembly, and when my boss asks me why my applications take so long to produce and upgrade I'll just point out this post, and tell him I didn't want to suck.

Earth to CronoMan, yeah right.

Obviously not, they use Java

Still more bullshit. Use your brain providing it exists.

Yeah, because it takes half of the dev time to load all the classes needed.

An extreme fabrication, stated only to induce a "bad rap." Classic.

If you have any credibility, I'll be quite suprised, because right now yours is considerably far into the negatives as far as I'm concerned. I know it may come as a suprise, but believe me and don't take any salt when you read what I'm about to say.

Ready?

You are wrong and stupid. You are beyond anybodys help excluding your own, and if you ever want to be taken seriously, you will have to start doing grown up things. Like perhaps telling the truth or not going with the crowd, even if you get looked at funny.