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That can not be Answered because THere would Be too many debates with no point. But in My opinion Yes God does exist.

At 11/4/06 04:30 AM, StealthSteve wrote: never heard an answer... or never understood the answer? never heard an answer... or never accepted the answer?

Alright, I can rephrase my statement to say "I've never heard an answer other than 'God Has Always existed.'" And yes; I've never understood or accepted this as an answer. The link you provided seems to simply side-step the entire debate and simply provide an error in the logic of both sides; rather than actually explain anything in general. I realize that even if a god existed, there wouldn't be a "2+2=4" explanation for it, but maybe the reason that there's little if any logic behind religion is the reason that I refuse to accept it.

researching ANYTHING will turn up a plethora of material. some of it will be enlightening, some of it will maybe lend more insight than others, and some of it won't even be worth the paper/diskspace required to store em. in any case, if you've asked and never heard an answer ("EVER" :P ) then the truth is you've probably never bothered listening to begin with.

I've listened to both sides extensively explain their stance. I've read countless explanations from people like Richard Dawkins explaining why it's statistically impossible for a god to exist, while hearing people like Kirk Cameron explain that anything science has to prove can in some way be linked to the workings of a god.

I asked "What created God" not as a debate on the existence of God, but rather to bring an error to light in the concept of intelligent design. ID seems to state that everything must be physically created in order for it's existence to be valid, but at the same time, it contradicts its self in the goal to prove that a god created everything. If everything is created, then surely God was created too.

I don't see the fallacy in asking that. To say "asking what created the uncreated" is illogical is completely taking away the concept that there must be an explanation. That's like me saying "1 and 1 cannot make 2, because you can prove no other way that 2 exists or not." My debate is creation; not existence. Even Richard Dawkins has explained that you cannot prove the physical existence of a god, but at the same time; disprove it. I simply ask for proof that the universe (and by extension everything within it) has a creator. The article you provided seems to only say "Well the universe is a physical thing, so we can debate if it has a creator or not. God[s] are supernatural beings, therefore we cannot debate it's creation, and therefore, it's existence because not everybody believes in it." In other words;

Universe = Real
God = Real (?)

All it's saying is "well it might exist, so you can't automatically rule it out." Just like I said; you may not be able to disprove the existence of God, but that cannot automatically entail his existence. All I want to know is how intelligent design works if the "designer" is exempt from their own rules.

At 11/4/06 07:23 AM, Peter-II wrote: Incorrect. Electrons do have a location and a speed at the same time, but it's impossible to determine its location and speed simultaneously.

unless you entangle it with another electron, in which case you can measure the speed of one, and the spin of the other and gain both.

Hold on. I think everyone should calm down and relax.

Ok Does God exist?

You know what im going to say the only certain answer.

I dont know

That is the only answer any of us can give. We should not be sqabilling over religion. If you believe in God or not that is just fine. Dont be a dick and force your opinion down people's throat. Just mellow out and be cool.

If any religious person can actually give me proof without reasonable doubt that any deity exists i will lean away from my more athiestic views.

Seriously though, as of this point in time it is an impossibility for anyone to prove or disprove the existence of a divine being.. All that can really be done is the disproval of aspects of organised religions.

At 11/4/06 03:50 AM, wwwyzzerdd wrote: Who/What created God?

And don't give me your "God always existed" bullshit, because the fact that something complex enough to create anything that's remotely "complex" would therefore by your logic, need a creator.

Your question limits the view of focus so that the only answer is the "God always existed bullshit" your disapproval of this route makes us try and think that something else people want to prove you wrong. But for three reasons you will not get the answer you want.
1.Your fighting on the internet, everyone thinks they know everything
2.Your fighting people who literally believe and practice the worship of god religiously
3.You don't want to hear any answer.
It's much more convenient for your psyche to believe that we are wrong in this case. The only way you will every hear a good answer is to chill out and think.

Unfortunately most of the people who believe in religions do so on emotional reasons. They don't often stray to think about why science contradicts them. Thing is it doesn't but they believe it does because they are told so.
People who don't believe in God have a easier playing field as far as this whole argument goes with science on "their" side they can point to their facts and be correct.
I agree that the painter analogy is flawed at best. It contradicts itself. If the painter painted God then who is the painter (and so on and so forth)? Indeed God did and didn't exist for a while (He purpled first. Read my "If I were god rant" for more on that) God created time with time created he began existing... In one way you could say that God made time and time in turn made god exist.

Did that answer your question?

At 10/29/06 02:57 PM, thejvman wrote: As an atheist who often must talk to very theistic people I often find myself wondering why there are no intelligible debates on the matter of whether or not there actually is a god. I intend for this forum to contain only well thought out and logical statements so please do your best not to ruin this forum with evangelical nonsense, or excessive cursing.

Wo buddy! Be careful about such a sensitive subject this is aPOLITICAL forum.
Not a religous debate forum.

People who don't believe in God have a easier playing field as far as this whole argument goes with science on "their" side they can point to their facts and be correct.

Science can also be on the side of the believer, considering it can only make things more complex and less coincedental. If you say 'I believe in science', the irony is that science doesn't support faith or (non)apparant reason 100% of the way.

At 11/3/06 09:45 PM, StealthSteve wrote:

At 11/3/06 09:23 PM, fasdit wrote: If he does exist then he doesn't play nearly as big a roll in our society as Christians claim. I hate people who act like god is with them every step of the way and always helping them out. That is total bullshit and false thinking. I've seen some really well educated people that still think god is right there behind them and protecting them.

but if it isn't everywhere, then where else could it possibly be?

Sorry but god isn't inside of me right now or over my shoulder. People make their own decisions and should learn to look to themselfs when the times get tough.

i dunno. im like 95% Cathlic 5% Athiest. its hard to tell. someone had to have created us, and dont forget about "Our Lady of Fatima" incedent. Then again, we have cancer, flu, common cold, tons of things that we pary for EVERY DAY, but there ALL STILL HERE!!! its too hard to tell
+ we have war too

At 11/4/06 06:15 PM, Mr-Miyamoto wrote: Science can also be on the side of the believer, considering it can only make things more complex and less coincedental. If you say 'I believe in science', the irony is that science doesn't support faith or (non)apparant reason 100% of the way.

Re-read my post please...

At 11/4/06 04:17 PM, MrPariah wrote: Unfortunately most of the people who believe in religions do so on emotional reasons. They don't often stray to think about why science contradicts them. Thing is it doesn't but they believe it does because they are told so.
Indeed God did and didn't exist for a while (He purpled first. Read my "If I were god rant" for more on that) God created time with time created he began existing... In one way you could say that God made time and time in turn made god exist.

Pariah, to be honest, all of that translates to one simple phrase: there is no reasonable answer to how God can possibly exist because he isn't a logical concept, he is an emotional necessity.

That does actually answer his question by telling him that there is no answer, and no one will give a straight response because there is simply no way to have one that justifies the existance of God in a non-contradictory manner.

Somewhere in this universe is a blue duck-like creature that shoots lasers from it's mouth and loves to eat roots. Prove me wrong.

Personally I believe there must be a God. I'm not going to force my opinions on others though, because I respect that we are all allowed our own opinions. What does piss me off, however, is people who look down on other people just because of differences in belief. I personally believe that we are all created equally, despite differences in color, race, nationality or m,ost importantly religious belief. I don't go to church anymore because I was tired of all the hypocracy. They go on and on about equality and the fact that we are all equal in the eyes of whatever or whoever God they worship and then they turn around and start smashing on other religions, even other forms of ChristianityI've gone to protestant churches that say Catholosism is wrong and I went to a Catholic Church that said the Protestants were damned to hell regardless. I don't understand how the only thing that all religions agree upon is that everyone other that those who believe in any other religions are automatically damned. It pisses me off because this is the mindset that leads to war. I think that if we were to truly realize our equality, get along to get along, there wouldn't be a need for war. You wouldn't have these Arab dipshits killing people just because that man doesn't believe in Allah (did I spell that right?) and you wouldn't have had to have all of the countless wars that have been brought about by Christians "spreading the word". It saddens me that some people have know faith at all, but I'm not going to force that person to believe as I do, because I don't really know what I believe. I choose to believe in Christianity personally because I think that alot of Christs teachings made sense. I just think that most religions have been corrupted and turned into a kind of trap. One thing that most Christians agree upon is that man should not have hate in their hearts and should love one another as equals but then they turn around and start in on people of other religions as automatically damned as if they really know the truth themselves. Is that not having hate in your heart? Is that truly loving your fellow man when you speak of others with a bitter tounge? Then, if you do bring up these little hypocracies you are automatically considered a damn hippy or comunist or something. I have an athiest friend that, when asked about his view of God, he simply said that he didn't believe in god. The ASSHOLE that asked him then turned around and cheap shotted my friend on the nose. This is man who claims to be an honest Christian man who turned around and decked a seventeen year old boy just because he answered his question truthfully. What did he want him to do, lie to him? I see more honor in the athiest honestly speaking his views than I see in the "Honest Christian" who was obviously looking for any reason to attack him for them. Personally when it comes to religion I choose to think for myself and hope like hell that I'm right. Is that not all faith is anyway, hoping that you got it right? Rather that faith be in science, God, Allah, or whatever other deities might be out there? Well I'll leave you to decide. I just don't understand why you attack one another just because of a difference in belief. Faith is what you make of it and if you feel that you really must attack one another then there isn't anything I can do about it. I just think that it's weird that if someone were to attack your beliefs you would defend them with your very essence. Why then, do we attack other peoples views the same way we don't want ours attacked. I don't really know if I'm going to catch any flack for this but, frankly, I don't give a F**K. There is a religioun thread which asked people about their views, I gave mine and that's really all there is to it. I don't offer any apologies to anyone with conflicting views, but as an American I'll respect your first ammendment right to speak them. If you wish to use this right to attack one another, then by all means go to it. I don't think that's the most intelligent thing to do, but go right ahead. I think the more intelligent thing to do would appreciate each others differences as humanity and get along with your own lives. Quit forceably bumping up against one another just to get a rise out of someone because you undoubtably will get one, that's just the theory of relativity at work. (I think thats right, the one about the opposite but equal reaction) . As for me, I'm posting now because I think I began to ramble a while ago there. See ya folks.

Since I am still young,I will answer your statement witha rhetorical statement(if such a thing exists)
No matter how much science you applie to it,there is no logical,explainable ,or scientifical answer.When a person dies,their body stops functioning including their brain and heart:the 2 most crucial parts of the human body (excluding the jugular).
speaking in scientifically,anything that can move or 'think' is explained by science to have a mind or brain(even if it is mechanical).
But then one must ask him/herself,what happens to a person's mind after they die?It can no longer remain in it's physical,human form.So then you wonder:Where does the human mind go after it's body becomes useless?
Most of my theories are pretty stupid,so I will put in it's place a rhetorical question.If Jesus was God's son,Moses was a Prophet,Adam and Eve were the 1st humans,and God created us all;then who created God?
Once again,a stupid idea.Just saying.

At 11/4/06 03:50 AM, wwwyzzerdd wrote:

At 10/29/06 03:05 PM, jlwelch wrote:

Who/What created God?

And don't give me your "God always existed" bullshit, because the fact that something complex enough to create anything that's remotely "complex" would therefore by your logic, need a creator.

Srry about reposting your question.I didn't take any time reading the pages until after I posted.

At 11/4/06 10:24 PM, Draconias wrote:

Pariah, to be honest, all of that translates to one simple phrase: there is no reasonable answer to how God can possibly exist because he isn't a logical concept, he is an emotional necessity.

But emotions are just chemicals and electric impulses in your brain, which is pretty logical.
So logical in fact, that they can be induced, predicted, supressed, enhanced etc!

WOWOWOWOWOW! I just BLEW YOUR MIND!

Gotta love how humans try to put themselves above logic itself.

Some people have asked why no "Jesus like" miracle saviors have descened upon today's society.

Logically it's because all the workings of Jesus were exagerated to the point of being magical.

At 10/29/06 03:08 PM, neoptolemus wrote: Well, technically speaking gods do exist. They are a socio-psychological construct in order to give our lives meaning and purpose. They are there because Mankind needed to live in a group in order to survive. In order for this to properly work our minds needed to be able to worship our group which, through time, became the worship of gods.

Now, why do people need to belive in some all-Knowing all-seeing entity to practice the virtues of religion.

And the people still bash on those who believe in god..what assholes. If we are all doomed to blink out of existence, the way you would turn out a light bulb, then what's the point of going on. If our personalities, our memories and our experience don't really help anyone in the long run, then why do we even have them. If their truly is no point, if our existences truly are meaningless then why not just end it and get it over with. Black it all out, as it were. I truly don't see the logic in saying there is no god. Just by taking away that one aspect of life you also take away the very logic of even bothering to attain that knowledge. If we just blink out like you are so damned determined to push as if it were heroin, then where the hell does the energy that created our concience go? It must still exist in some form because, even according to science, energy does not just dissapear, it may change into another form of energy but it will always be there. You people obviosly don't believe in freedom of opinion the way you are pushing your views on others. You are so damned determined to force others into believing there is no God that you fall to insulting their intelligence. It saddens me that people are so closed minded that they won't believe in anything beyond what's in front of their face. The only way these idiots believe in anything is if it's on a slab in front of them to be poked and dissected. For as long as man has believed in a higher power of some sort you insult yourselves by trying to force the opinion that humans are the highest power until stated otherwise. There is bound to be something out there with a higher intelligence than man, we just don't want to accept it. Some people are so blind that they refuse to see what's right in front of their faces. Take the big bang for instance. It was orriginally supposedly sparked by dust particals that rubbed together making so much friction that an explosion eventually ensued. If this is the case then, by your own logic, where did those dust particals come from. If nothing existed before the big bang in a form that we would recognize then where did the dust come from. If the dust was originally part of something then where did that come from and so on and so forth. There are lots of things in science that make sense, but there is also a lot of it that seems to contradict itself just as much as any religion. Science depends too much on beginning and ends. This is one part of religion that makes more sense to me. There is no real basis of beginnings and ends its kind of like one big circle. God has existed in some form for eternity past and shall exist in some form for eternety future. Whatever god is it may not exist in the same form say a thousand years from now but it will exist. Even once man ceases to exist on this ball of mud called Earth, I'm damn sure that whatever creature comes forth to take the mantle of man will probably believe in some form of deity. It may not be the same god that we worship now but the idea will be the same. With man if you take away God you take away all form of morality. You even take away the very basis that immorality is based on. Without some higher power we are nothing more than animals nipping at one anothers heels. I'm not saying you have to believe in god. I'm not questioning your intelligence based on athyism what I question your intelligence on is the fact that you can't seem to leave those who do believe in god alone about it. I'll be honest, Im not saying you have to believe in God or be damned to an eternal hell, because I feel that it doesn't matter what religion you are that gets you to whatever plane lies beyond this one, I believe it's the type of person you are and it doesn't seem that someone that would give hell to people based on their beliefs is a very good person. The original title that was on this seemed harmless enough. It was simply a question of faith. "Does God Exist?" I came in originally just to say that I persoanlly believe he does. It was upon coming in here that I realized what it has become; a trap. Someone says yes or no and then the next prick that comes in has to haze on that person for their beliefs.

I can understand the views of both parties because I like to hear both sides of an argument before I make my own decisions. The only problem is that this has turned out to be nothing but another in forum pissing contest where no one can just agree to dissagree and get on with their lives. The Unbelievers have to try and force down the believers throats all of this bullshit about why god exists and then the believers have to force all of this bullshit down the throats of the former all of the reasons of why "they're going to hell, because they don't believe". It's pretty much the same argument from both sides, it's just about different views. If you don't believe in God, great, have fun with that. And If you do believe in God, what makes you so damn sure these people really are going to hell just because they don't believe. You've never met them in real life. You don't know anything about them, you simply base your judgement on the fact they don't believe. Again to the athiests, just because a person believes in god does not make them stupid or childish. It only adds to their character. Who the hell are you to say he doesn't exist? What authority do you have? What, since he's not been put under a microscope people who do believe can't have their views respected? There are still thousands of creatures on our own plane of existence that your science has not uncovered. Nobody believed in the giant squid until one was found in the belly of a whale. People who did believe in them with blind faith were said to be fools. Did it not make the nonbelievers look like fools when one WAS found? So, the same thing with God. What if he IS found? Will you not be the fools, instead of us that do believe? Would that not turn the tables if he did suddenly show up? Personally I don't believe it was god that put the timeframe on religion, it was religion that put the time frame on god. Who are the religious to say that God took seven days to create the universe just because some guys a couple of thousand years ago said it was so? Seven days to God could have been the same as the big bang to science. Just think it over.

This was originally part of the post just before this, but the damn thing wouldn''t let me post it even though I still had about 200 characters left. F*ck The System!

At 11/5/06 07:04 AM, YoungFrankenstein wrote: The Unbelievers have to try and force down the believers throats all of this bullshit about why god exists and then the believers have to force all of this bullshit down the throats of the former all of the reasons of why "they're going to hell, because they don't believe".

I would have to agree with you, it's a horrible mess that this form of debate always becomes. However, you do have to take into account that athiests (not anti-theists) generally do not try to force their opinions down the throat of the theist for no reason. It happens because it ends up being the theist who makes a comment about how if one doesn't believe in "god" then one is evil...

Again to the athiests, just because a person believes in god does not make them stupid or childish. It only adds to their character.

That's al relative to the actual person, while being stupid or childish is often atributed to followers of religions it is all relative. One can have a highly logical and intelligent conversation with a theist about anything religious, however, the majority of the time some theists end up disregarding logic for blind faith and they can't even acknowledge how logical a certain point is.

Who the hell are you to say he doesn't exist? What authority do you have? What, since he's not been put under a microscope people who do believe can't have their views respected? There are still thousands of creatures on our own plane of existence that your science has not uncovered. Nobody believed in the giant squid until one was found in the belly of a whale.

There are still organisms we havn't discovered, however, what is said is that we don't know that they exist and thus it is only logical to assume something doesn't exist if there is no proof.

People who did believe in them with blind faith were said to be fools. Did it not make the nonbelievers look like fools when one WAS found?

Blind faith always makes people appear to be fools as with blind faith often comes the suspension of ones rationale. The "nonbelievers" didn't look like fools as they didn't have enough evidence to conclude that the giant squid existed.

So, the same thing with God. What if he IS found? Will you not be the fools, instead of us that do believe? Would that not turn the tables if he did suddenly show up?

Well, if the Abrahamic view of god does turn out to exist then i still wouldn't believe, after all belief is not in itself knowledge and logic, it holds no evidence. If there is proof of the existence of "god" then that's fine by me, it'd be unscientific if i still refused to acknowledge its existence.. Although i can investigate to check the validity of the evidence.

Seven days to God could have been the same as the big bang to science. Just think it over.

Do you know what days are? A day is the single rotation of a planet on its axis with respect to the nearby star. Therefore, prior to the creation of a solar system there is to be no days.

One question we must ask ourself is: What is God?

Seriously, the only way people think of God is as person that looks like us and has supernatural powers.

This is how the Bible wants us to view God. But we must keep in mind that the bible was written by humans and humans can be deceiving.

I don't believe in the God protrayed by the Bible because the existance of such god hasn't been proven. And because of this, we cannot possibly say that he exists.

I believe that there is a god, but this god is impartial. It's not good nor evil. It just is.
I think that God is not a human nor a thing, God is not a separate being. I think that God is EVERYTHING; we are part of God and therefore, god is part of us. I beliebe that The universe IS god.

Well you might ask; who created the universe? Well I'd say, the universe was never created. Time could just be a human concept. Think about it. If you didn't exists would time matter? I don't think so! We humans have been conditioned to see everything within a timeline; this is because we have cycles; we are born, we grow up and then we die. Maybe the universe doesn't have cycles. Maybe the universe is still.

I think that everything has always existed.
Because god (teh universe... I.e. everything) has always existed.
I just don't see how it is possible for anyone NOT to exist. I have always existed as far as I can recall. And because of this, I can't possibly say that I haven't always existed (from my perspective.)

If I exist right now then it must mean that there is a possiblity that I exist. Therefore, there is also a possibility that I will exist again. And because the passing of time cannot be felt while you don't exist, then you will always exist; you will die and then be reborn for all eternity. But you won't remember your previous life - you will be a different person. The only thing that will affirm that it's you is that fact that you will be contious to some extent.

At 11/5/06 10:41 AM, LolOutLoud wrote: If I exist right now then it must mean that there is a possiblity that I exist. Therefore, there is also a possibility that I will exist again. And because the passing of time cannot be felt while you don't exist, then you will always exist; you will die and then be reborn for all eternity. But you won't remember your previous life - you will be a different person. The only thing that will affirm that it's you is that fact that you will be contious to some extent.

... You could also be re-born as an animal.

By "reborn for all eternity" I meant you will be born and then die be born and then die again etc... Forever!

No. People conjuer up gods because of moral disability. I dont know what that means.

Alright, I have read just about enough to post here, although this is just my first time I think that I am needed to post here.

About this God Existing part, well you can believe whatever the hell you want, it's your opinion, why do you need to shout at others who believe if God exists or doesn't exist? Leave them alone it's their own opinion it's not like that they are committing a crime by doing that.

That time travelling thing one of you posted is rather incorrect actually, if you go back into the past and murder someone then go back into the present time and the past you was arrested and let us say was put into jail for 20 years, when you go back into the present time from the past wouldn't you be in jail?

You can't say that when you go back into the future that guy is dead and nothing else has been changed, you have to understand that if you got arrested in the past you will be in jail in the present time if your penalty in jail lasts for that long. If it were just a few minutes you would either be in the police car and already driving to jail or you are already IN jail.

Anyway my opinion on this is that I believe that God exists, now some people might flame me for this but remember, this is MY own self opinion, I'm not proclaiming this like if it were true or something, now. In my lifetime I would like to meet God in person or even Jesus Christ.

There will be a Judgement Day and Jesus will rule the universe for 1000 years, I'm not entirely sure about that but I like to believe that it is true and I would like to witness this awesome event. Since I am new here I am personally not going to say too much but I would like to say that what people believes is their opinion, you don't have to argue over it.

Alright thanks for letting me say my part.

At 11/4/06 04:17 PM, MrPariah wrote:

Unfortunately most of the people who believe in religions do so on emotional reasons. They don't often stray to think about why science contradicts them. Thing is it doesn't but they believe it does because they are told so.

People seem to have missed this sentence for one reason or the other so I'm reposting it. I hope that by re-reading my whole post you will be able to ask a question in a way so that I don't have to say "please re read my post". If you have a question on my theories please ask.

Also on a unrelated note, Young Frankenstein, please format your post into paragraph form if you are going to write that much. It makes it easier to read. People don't have very long attention spans and will ignore large blocks of text like that. I would hate for your ideas, most of which i agree with, to be ignored due to formating issues.

At 11/5/06 01:46 PM, XAVlER wrote: Alright, I have read just about enough to post here, although this is just my first time I think that I am needed to post here.

In this debate it doesn't matter how much experience you have posting here on newgrounds just how well you can state what your opinions are. Welcome to the debate! :)

About this God Existing part, well you can believe whatever the hell you want, it's your opinion, why do you need to shout at others who believe if God exists or doesn't exist? Leave them alone it's their own opinion it's not like that they are committing a crime by doing that.

Well this is the debate of "does god exist" people will get mad easily and take things personally.

That time travelling thing one of you posted is rather incorrect actually...
You can't say that when you go back into the future that guy is dead and nothing else has been changed, you have to understand that if you got arrested in the past you will be in jail in the present time if your penalty in jail lasts for that long. If it were just a few minutes you would either be in the police car and already driving to jail or you are already IN jail.

Welp, if it is incorrect it's not because of this reason. The police from timeline B would be looking for me not the police from timeline A. Because in timeline A I never killed anyone. There are more than one timelines. For every possible way a event could go (no matter how minor) there is one timeline for it.

This one time, I, like, died, and there was, like, nothing.

At 11/5/06 02:46 PM, Dash-Underscore-Dash wrote: This one time, I, like, died, and there was, like, nothing.

I died once. Woke up with danny peeing on me head. some sight to wake up to
Colin farrel - Scrubs