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At 10/31/06 10:40 PM, Steel-Reserve wrote:

This story is the truth.

Well if that really is the case, then PRAISE GOD!

no sarcasm

At 10/31/06 10:40 PM, Steel-Reserve wrote: This story is the truth.

I have no doubt this story is true. I don't believe it had anything to do with divine intervention though.

At 10/31/06 10:40 PM, Steel-Reserve wrote: This story is the truth.

That does not prove God's existence. All it proves is that the girl liked the idea that some magical man in the sky cared for her, and so suited it to her needs.

Do your brains exist?

The same goes for God!

At 11/2/06 04:55 PM, EternalRabbit wrote: Do your brains exist?

The same goes for God!

Actually, not quite. I think you messed up that cliche'd argument. The brain is a physical object which can be observed; God is not, so no analogy can be made between them. I think instead you mean does your "mind" exist, since it appears to be a non-physical thing as well (but it actually isn't).

Why are you so desperately clinging on to your deity?

At 11/2/06 05:46 PM, Athlas wrote: Why are you so desperately clinging on to your deity?

I'd have to agree, all these people who worship the Abrahamic view of "god" will be dissapointed when they find themselves in Hades' Kingdom of Decay.. Then they will know that the real gods are the Olympians.

Oh Zeus, king of gods and of men.

At 11/1/06 06:20 PM, Peter-II wrote:

At 10/31/06 10:40 PM, Steel-Reserve wrote: This story is the truth.

That does not prove God's existence. All it proves is that the girl liked the idea that some magical man in the sky cared for her, and so suited it to her needs.

I know other girls like her who pray to earth godesses and whatnot. They write poetry about self-mutilation, and have cutting parties at each other's houses. What's your take on that?

At 11/3/06 05:09 AM, Steel-Reserve wrote:

At 11/1/06 06:20 PM, Peter-II wrote:

At 10/31/06 10:40 PM, Steel-Reserve wrote: This story is the truth.

That does not prove God's existence. All it proves is that the girl liked the idea that some magical man in the sky cared for her, and so suited it to her needs.

I know other girls like her who pray to earth godesses and whatnot. They write poetry about self-mutilation, and have cutting parties at each other's houses. What's your take on that?

My take on that is that "earth godesses and whatnot" don't have the same ability to rehabilitate as what I assume is the Judeo-Christian god. It isn't as meaningful as you might think.

At 11/3/06 05:09 AM, Steel-Reserve wrote:

At 11/1/06 06:20 PM, Peter-II wrote:

At 10/31/06 10:40 PM, Steel-Reserve wrote: This story is the truth.

That does not prove God's existence. All it proves is that the girl liked the idea that some magical man in the sky cared for her, and so suited it to her needs.

I know other girls like her who pray to earth godesses and whatnot. They write poetry about self-mutilation, and have cutting parties at each other's houses. What's your take on that?

They are idiots. The girl who quit cutting herself is a standard placebo effect case. At least that is my take on the subject.

I have never had a logical counter to this argument.

According to nigh every religious text, God (whatever religion) is omniscient. Otherwise known as all-knowing. In fact, a prerequisit for deity status is all knowing and all powerful.

A deity who knows everything knows EVERYTHING - past, present, and future.

If something knows what you will do in the future, then you get no choice in the matter.

If you get no choice, then you have no free will.

But we are placed on this earth as a test, to see how we will act on our own free will. Even though we have no free will and the (supposed) diety knows exactly what we will do.

So why not simply condemn us to hell or elevate us with the angels? What's with the whold pointless earth thing?

At 11/3/06 04:33 PM, Archon-John wrote: According to nigh every religious text, God (whatever religion) is omniscient. Otherwise known as all-knowing. In fact, a prerequisit for deity status is all knowing and all powerful.

Actually, that isn't true. For most of history, gods have not been omniscient, only highly knowledgeable. The Abrahamic god is essentially the first and only omniscient deity so far.

Just look at the Roman/Greek pantheon for a quick example: Zeus and the other "gods" eliminated the Titans, their parent deities, through trickery-- which obviously means the Titans were not omniscient. The gods did not know everything, they were just like super-humans.

you know i do really get tired of the god threads, about does he exist or not, why becuase there is like 50 and there is no way to prove or disprove his existeince

so sorry if im a bit cranky but i had enough with these threads

At 11/3/06 04:33 PM, Archon-John wrote: A deity who knows everything knows EVERYTHING - past, present, and future.

If something knows what you will do in the future, then you get no choice in the matter.

If you get no choice, then you have no free will.

Your liner view of time is the value of the argument. If time isn't liner then your argument is useless.

Let's say I build a time machine go back in time before you wrote this post and I hit you with a rock and you die. In that timeline you never wrote this post. I know that you were going to write because I have existed in both time lines. As well god knows that I am going to mess around this different time lines in advance as that he knows all possible out comes including the two the one where I build a time machine and the one that I kill you in. You can kill your own grandfather because in the time line you came from he wasn't dead.

At 11/2/06 05:46 PM, Athlas wrote: Why are you so desperately clinging on to your deity?

I could ask you the same question.

At 11/3/06 08:03 PM, MrPariah wrote: Let's say I build a time machine go back in time before you wrote this post and I hit you with a rock and you die...<etc>

Well th eting is it's impossible to change your timeline through time travel.. Lets say you go back... Kill him then when the time comes that you go back again you wouldn't as there will be no need and thus the timeline will correct itself again.. It's a major paradox..

Anyway, the whole notion of a god that is omnipresent, omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient with the existence of free will is impossible. Sadly, all of those do not exist.. All life is determined by not only the environment we grow up in but because of psychological reasons aslwell whish i can't go into at the moment due to my drunkenness.

If he does exist then he doesn't play nearly as big a roll in our society as Christians claim. I hate people who act like god is with them every step of the way and always helping them out. That is total bullshit and false thinking. I've seen some really well educated people that still think god is right there behind them and protecting them.

I seriously want to smite these people with a thunderbolt on the spot.

At 10/29/06 03:18 PM, scottish-cunt wrote: God only excists in the minds of the believers that follows him

Blasphemy, God is something not to be debated. Its depended on wether you believe in him or not. Right now, he could be testing us, putting all these 'pre-human andorhales' to test us.

Or he just plain doesn't exist.

It is a question never meant to be answered by the mere mortal. Maybe from a spirit beyond, or how can we even be sure there will be angels?

Jesus is a significant peice of proof that God was real, but, if he could heal blindess, sickness, in a blink of an eye back then. How come there are no clerics like Jesus around today?

Or maybe, God jsut forgot about the Earth and went off, or hes jsut waiting for Earth's redemption.

Maybe its a test, or maybe this is jsut all fake. Who knows, no one will know. There is no need to discuss it, all it will end up being is an argument over two differant view points.

At 11/3/06 09:23 PM, fasdit wrote: stuff

I agree though I wouldn't have put it that way. When asked I put it this way, “I believe in god. But, I look both ways before crossing the street.”

At 11/3/06 08:48 PM, neoptolemus wrote:

:a drunken rant

If this is timeline A and I went to timeline B and did all that killing stuff if I went to back to time line A you would still be alive... which you are... this whole thing would really mess with the people of timeline B I can only imagine the news stories "Computer user killed with rock police arrest a innocent man (B timeline me, who technically is innocent)."

At 11/3/06 05:09 AM, Steel-Reserve wrote:

At 11/1/06 06:20 PM, Peter-II wrote:

At 10/31/06 10:40 PM, Steel-Reserve wrote: This story is the truth.

That does not prove God's existence. All it proves is that the girl liked the idea that some magical man in the sky cared for her, and so suited it to her needs.

I know other girls like her who pray to earth godesses and whatnot. They write poetry about self-mutilation, and have cutting parties at each other's houses. What's your take on that?

I know people who pretend to be satanists, wiccans, etc. just to supplement their "rebel-ness". Their former religion (if they actually left it) isn't for them, but they don't know much more than that.

I have been reviewing this forum and I have noticed two very major problems on both sides.
1. Most of the people discussing the theory of evolution have little or no idea what a theory is, much less what the theory of evolution actualy says.
2. Early on there was a discussion of what would have created God, and i have done a bit of research on the matter of things that exist outside of time and space, and i have found that electrons exist outside either one of these at any given time seeing as electrons either have a location or a speed at any given time, but never both.

Now, as for problem number one, a theory is VERY different from a hypothesis which many of you seem to be confusing it with. By definition a theory is a hypothesis that has been tested by and has withstood scientific scrutiny. Many dictionaries actually define a theory as a scientific fact, (not to be confused with a scientific law which is something that can be readily veiwed in nature, such as salamanders being able to regrow their tails.) but i will not use this definition as it will not leave sufficient room for debate.

Now, moving on from my description of theories. The theory of evolution simply states that through natural selection, favorable genes are distributed throughout communities of animals through mating, and unfavorable genes are eliminated through the same process.

Now, i want to get a few of my own veiws onto this forum. I just want to say that it is absolutely RIDICULOUS to expect to find every single echelon of the evolutionary step ladder seeing as over 99.9% of species haved been wiped from the face of the earth leaving little or no fossil evidence of their existence. The fact that we have as many steps between our two races as we do should be thought of as amazing and INCREDIBLY fourtunate.

Also I have one more topic I'd like to raise, it is the "Big Gulp Theory", which is reletively new in the scientific community. It shows how mitochondria can survive on their own, evolve into algae, and even be created through a lightning bolt striking a body of water. This theory has lately become the prominent theory for the creation of life on earth. (The theory of evolution accounts for how life changed and was altered, but not how it was created in the first place.)

On the whole I would just like to say good job on keeping this dispute relatively civil, however I must request one more thing, please do not refer to converting to christianity as "being saved". Other than, that good job.

Ummmm... No...

Here's what I like to the call the "If I were God concept" Here's the idea If you were god what would you do? Ok so lets start before the beginning as it is. Here’s what it would be like for me

I exist... technically I don't yet as that existing means that there is time in which there is to do so... I refer to this "before time" as purpling. Purpling is rather boring there is literally nothing to do except make things. So the next thing I would do would be make time, "and it was so." Ok so now that's done I'm now technically existing which is still rather boring as only me and time exist. What's the good of existing if all you can do is create? This really isn't any better than purpling. Wouldn't be fun to make a bunch a places for lower beings that live, act like idiots, and say to me "hey dude you rock." That would be sweet... Ok well this is a major investment a lot can go wrong... Or a lot can go right nothing ventured after all... Well how to go about making something as cool as life... Let's blow crap up! Well there isn't anything to blow up...oh well I'll do it anyway... "and it was so" Dang that was hard... Well now that places exist let's put stuff in the places like plants err something... Oh how about people that look like me... ugh this creating stuff is hard work...<ctrl c> <ctrl v> ok now we have humans and monkeys and crap... Free will sounds fun..."and it was so" I really tired and I have done a lot stuff... but their really dumb... If I relax their gonna do something really stupid like kill themselves...maybe I should have waited on the free will thing tell I was less tired... oh crap, their looking at me... I should say something really cool... I mean these are my first words to be heard by mortal ears... "err.... Take care of the earth it was freaking hard to make..." Well that was lame but it got the idea across... "Oh and don't touch my freaking tree... and name stuff!" I made the crap it's the least they could do... Hey who are you? Lucifer? I don't remember making you... *after a few minutes of discussion* Lucifer your being a complete loser go to hell... Well I’m gonna chill for a bit. *insert chilling here* "Ok sup ya'll... wait... What the heck? You ate from the freaking tree?!? I told you to do like 3 things and you screw up? Don't give me that crap about naming animals and taking care of earth being hard I freaking made all that." All this making stuff is hard... Evolution seems easy let them figure out what they need...

Continue as needed...

Aww come on! Any moron would notice there is a God. My dad knows it, my friends knows it, Hell, even my dog knows it. I know it! scientifically, empirically and theoretically.
But fear not, once you gain more toughts/experience from life and people you will notice.
Nothing to rush.

Now, back to Guyton..

At 11/3/06 08:48 PM, neoptolemus wrote:

At 11/3/06 08:03 PM, MrPariah wrote: Let's say I build a time machine go back in time before you wrote this post and I hit you with a rock and you die...<etc>

Well th eting is it's impossible to change your timeline through time travel.. Lets say you go back... Kill him then when the time comes that you go back again you wouldn't as there will be no need and thus the timeline will correct itself again.. It's a major paradox..

thats a single idea of how time travel to past wouldnt work

theres plenty of ideas about how it might work.

for example, im a determinest, so i believe that everything is predetermined, and that physically, because of the fact that there is nothing special about us, we are just made of energy like everything else in the universe, we are just going along with everything else.

if we go into the past to lets say kill Hitler, because of the fact that he did not die at that point in time, something MUST have happened that stopped you doing it, because otherwise he would have already been dead in the present. This idea gets rid of that paradox, in that its impossible to change whats happened in the past, because its already happened, and if you did manage to change something, it would have already have been changed in youre own present, before you even went into the past, and something MUST happen that you do still go into the past to kill him at that point in time.

At 10/29/06 03:05 PM, jlwelch wrote: First off, when you see a painting you know there is a painter. When you see an automobile, you know there is a maker. Therefore, just seeing the world is absolute proof that there must be a maker. As the Way of the Master Guys say, all you need is "eyes that can see and a brain that works".

When I see bullshit, I know there's a maker.
But I'd like to pose a question that I've never heard answered; EVER.

Who/What created God?

And don't give me your "God always existed" bullshit, because the fact that something complex enough to create anything that's remotely "complex" would therefore by your logic, need a creator.

stealth, in your link, it speaks of asking what caused god is a category falacy, because by definition, god has always existed.

but it says that asking what caused the universe is not, because it has come into existance.

thats where the fault is, no-one knows if that is true or not, we dont know when, if the universe 'began' we know of the big bang, but no-one knows what was before it, so in the same way, it is not illogical to say that the universe has always existed, therefore it would also be a category falacy to ask what caused the universe to come into existance?

At 11/4/06 12:34 AM, thejvman wrote: 2. Early on there was a discussion of what would have created God, and i have done a bit of research on the matter of things that exist outside of time and space, and i have found that electrons exist outside either one of these at any given time seeing as electrons either have a location or a speed at any given time, but never both.

Incorrect. Electrons do have a location and a speed at the same time, but it's impossible to determine its location and speed simultaneously.