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At 11/1/06 10:22 AM, D2KVirus wrote: I had a rant on it on Myspace a few weeks back, but I'll just condense it here:

Why is it muslims should take off their veils, yet nuns are allowed to keep theirs on?

Nuns do not tend to wear viels that cover the entire face like a niqab or burqa does. If that teaching assistant was a nun with a full viel, and not a muslim I would still support her being suspended.

Take the trailers for last week's Dispatches: "Radical Muslims believe that anyone who criticses Islam should be imprisoned - so, do Muslims pose a threat to free speech?"

I have to say that programme really did disturb me. I think the very idea that people should have the right to be protected from offence quite scary, yet it seemed there were quite a lot of people who supported it.

This ignores the fact that Mayor of London Ken Livingstone was hauled up in front of the magistrates for saying a doorstopping journalist was "like a Nazi prison guard," then being informed said journalist was Jewish, and that Holocaust Denial gets you a prison term, wheilst Crusades Denial is ignored. Both had a large amount of shed blood, didn't they?

Really? I thought holocaust denial was legal here, I was under the impression that it's only illegal in certain parts of Europe.

At 10/31/06 10:51 PM, Metaleks wrote: Thank you for that post Lapis. Very informative =D

No problem.

What I know of Muhommed was that he was a "war prophet". I would rather not get into that though. Anywho, did I take the quotes out of context?

Well, yeah. If someone only reads those two quotes then he might think that Muslims are commanded by the Qur'an to slay all unbelievers - which isn't true. The Qur'an only justifies retaliatory violence, 8:61 for example clearly states that when the other party inclines to peace the believer is ordained by the Qur'an to do likewise. So they were out of context.

But the Koran says nothing about veils, just to dress modestly, it's only recently that the ultra-conservative chauvinist men that are making women wear vales, although at the end of the day it's up to the women what they wear, we shouldn't be able to force anything, we don't have the right.

I think that the women should be allowed to wear what they want, but i get pissed off by the way that groups of people are told that they can do whatever they want even if it annoys thousands, when others are told they cannot do there own thing as it offends a small minoritory.

For example, in a village a couple of miles from my house, some old lady was told to take three porcelain pigs out of her window as it offended one muslim family who walked past her house on the way to the shops once or twice a week - wtf

I wouldn't go as far as a complete ban on veils, but I think it's fair enough if a lot of jobs or schools demand that people don't wear one. Britain isn't a muslim country so it's not unreasonable to expect them to make more of an effort to blend in.

britain has tonnes of muslims! but i say, if it's their culture, why should it bother you as long as they're keeping it to themselves. now with terrorism, when it does affect others, that is a different subject. but if the women want to be subject to wearing hijab, that is their choice!

At 11/2/06 04:47 PM, EternalRabbit wrote: britain has tonnes of muslims! but i say, if it's their culture, why should it bother you as long as they're keeping it to themselves. now with terrorism, when it does affect others, that is a different subject. but if the women want to be subject to wearing hijab, that is their choice!

FINE and dandy , But as a parent I have a right to ensure the type of person teaches my children because they will be a role model , and a teacher should not cover there face up it is unpersonable, plus these are western countries, they choose to move here, and they should have to conform to our standards not the other way around. Same with the court system, or any public place for that matter, what are they hiding?

At 11/2/06 08:56 PM, troubles1 wrote:

FINE and dandy , But as a parent I have a right to ensure the type of person teaches my children because they will be a role model , and a teacher should not cover there face up it is unpersonable, plus these are western countries, they choose to move here, and they should have toconform to our stadards not the other way around . Same with the court system, or any public place for that matter, what are they hiding?

How are you conforming to their standards? They aren't asking you to wear veils, so what right do you have to ask them not to? Personally I think all religion is stupid, but this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. And as for 'what are they hiding' thats just plain ignorant, you know fine well that veils are worn because it is the accepted thing to do in their culture. As far as I can see, there is no real difference here to a country where women don't wear any clothes taking offense when a british women refuses to remove her clothes. People should not be forced to submit to the status quo just because 'thats what everybody else here does' , and if they are taht says something about how free we really are.

At 11/1/06 12:06 PM, ClottedCreamFudge wrote:
Nuns do not tend to wear viels that cover the entire face like a niqab or burqa does. If that teaching assistant was a nun with a full viel, and not a muslim I would still support her being suspended.

Ah, should've followed up here - the "argument" turned onto scarves as well, which surround the face but don't cover it, much like a nun's habit does.

Really? I thought holocaust denial was legal here, I was under the impression that it's only illegal in certain parts of Europe.

Since one of the main holocaust deniers in this country was hauled off and imprisoned on the continent a few months ago, it's not legal, as they'll be given up to a one-sided trial at the first opportunity.

At 11/1/06 02:39 PM, LiefErikson wrote: But the Koran says nothing about veils, just to dress modestly, it's only recently that the ultra-conservative chauvinist men that are making women wear vales, although at the end of the day it's up to the women what they wear, we shouldn't be able to force anything, we don't have the right.

What you, and i'm sure many other people wrongly think, is that the veil is forced upon the woman.. this is not the case. They choose to wear it as they see it as a symbol of their defiance of women being seen as sex objects..

It's amusing how many people of Anglo-saxon origin see it as being oppressive when some people from Asian descent see women being scantaly clad being a sign of oppression.