Solution to the Mexico Problem

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

The United States has a problem. It's in the news and it's a big topic of discussion. The border between the United States and Mexico is not secure and there is minimal control over who and what crosses it.

Is the solution really to close ourselves off like Japan did years ago, chopping off the head of any foreigner who sets foot on our sacred soil?

America has a bigger problem, one that everyone is ignoring because it is intolerable to consider. China is on a road that will lead to them being the dominant power in the world. Their main advantage: Population. Think about it, people like Albert Einstein and Thomas Jefferson are one in a million. By that logic they've got over a thousand 'supermen' and we have maybe a few hundred. Even if the greatest of the great are not responsible for a Nation's success, they've still got a huge population advantage. We may have technology, but they can easily steal or copy our greatest innovations, on the other hand, we have no way to match the productivity of their population.

I propose that instead of refusing to accept reality and continue trying to create a luxurious life for even the laziest and worthless of our citizens at the risk of total economic collapse we should let capitalism use its brutal and uncaring invisible hand to revitalize our lazy work ethic.

I propose we open the border to immigrants as possible. Most immigrants want to come and do work, not commit crime or mooch off the government.

There will need to be two big changes in order to make this work. First, National IDs with biometric records. The way the national security thing is going this doesn't sound too crazy. Second, we need separate wage laws for people who are not yet full citizens. They shouldn't have to pay Social Security, they shouldn't expect to recieve it either. They shouldn't have the same minimum wage, they'll just work off the books for less if it's forced.

The war on inexpensive labor is very similar to the war on drugs. There's a huge black market for both and it's expensive to a degree that the economic reasoning for the war does not neccesarily justify the war.

And to you ultra right wing conservatives: At least in America, our immigrants are Christian and have similar values. Look at the Muslim immigration in France and the rest of Europe. Those people have some unresolved issues.

As to the question of the high security wall? Sure, once there are easy ways for people who intend to contribute to our nation to get in legally, the only people who would be trying to cross would be drug dealers and terrorists, those people need to stay out.

Questions, comments or concerns?

[Begoner]

Let me see if I got this straight: because China has more people than the US, we should revert to the failed laissez-faire economic policies of the last century? All that the "invisible hand" does is allow the rich to accrue vast amounts of wealth while holding the poor down and forcing them to live a brutal existence. That's not something we should go back to -- who cares if the GDP per capita of the US will be $50,000 dollars if the top 1% of people control 99% of the wealth and the rest are on the brink of poverty?

[ironzealot]

At 10/28/06 09:31 PM, Begoner wrote: Let me see if I got this straight: because China has more people than the US, we should revert to the failed laissez-faire economic policies of the last century? All that the "invisible hand" does is allow the rich to accrue vast amounts of wealth while holding the poor down and forcing them to live a brutal existence. That's not something we should go back to -- who cares if the GDP per capita of the US will be $50,000 dollars if the top 1% of people control 99% of the wealth and the rest are on the brink of poverty?

Jesus Christ Begoner are you always on!

Your a walking cliche, a charicature of yourself, you toe the line and drink the koolaid.

Why don't you regurgitate your socialist slogans elsewhere, I would hope this forum would be a place for those capable of original and critical thought.

Simply spouting cliched socialist dogma again, I would very much like you to come up with your own conclusions based on the evidence. Rather than just parroting lines from the communist manifesto.

[YHWH]

At 10/28/06 11:19 PM, ironzealot wrote: Anti-Begoner stuff

<3

Anyway, I completely agree. The immigrants already help our economy as is, and if we help structure it, the economy will boom better than ever

[Begoner]

Why don't you regurgitate your socialist slogans elsewhere, I would hope this forum would be a place for those capable of original and critical thought.

Way to debate my ideas with your "original and critical thought." I did, in fact, examine the evidence critically and determined that historially, such an extremely conservative free-market model leads to wide-spread povery and the amassing of a large percentage of the wealth by very few people. It may sound good on paper, but it fails miserably in real life. Anyone with even an iota of common sense would realize that such an ultra-waped economic system would not benefit the people in any way whatsoever. It's not my fault that socialist rhetoric is correct.

[EnragedSephiroth]

At 10/28/06 11:19 PM, ironzealot wrote: Simply spouting cliched socialist dogma again, I would very much like you to come up with your own conclusions based on the evidence. Rather than just parroting lines from the communist manifesto.

By the same token you should do the same rather than always come off as a holier-than thou, pompous and egotistical moron. Regardless if what Begoner said was socialist, capitalist, satanist, buddhist or racist, it's still true and that is where you fail at having the right to tell him anything. If you can't see such a simple truth, or if the truth bothers you so much then perhaps you should do yourself the favor and save the forum one less condescending idiot.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

Perhaps Begoner is correct. We need to find a final solution to the Mexican question. Those immigrants are the only thing standing in the way of bringing a Socialist Paradise to the noble and hard working American citizens. If the Mexicans wish to enjoy prosperity, they can make their own 'Worker's Paradise" in Mexico.

[Begoner]

We need to find a final solution to the Mexican question. Those immigrants are the only thing standing in the way of bringing a Socialist Paradise to the noble and hard working American citizens.

I never said that we should put quotas on immigration -- certainly not. I do believe that if anyone wants to come to America, provided that they are not an escaped felon or something similar, they should be allowed to come. However, I don't think that we should treat the Mexican migrants as pseudo-slaves, being continuously exploited in menial jobs for extortionate wages and struggling on the brink of starvation. Look at US economic data, for example -- do the states with the highest GDP per capita have a high or low minimum wage? Is there any correlation between unemployment and minimum wage? The consider lowering the minimum wage is, at best, completely uninformed. And don't worry -- the US is about as far from a worker's paradise as it can be.

[ironzealot]

At 10/29/06 04:20 AM, EnragedSephiroth wrote:
By the same token you should do the same rather than always come off as a holier-than thou, pompous and egotistical moron. Regardless if what Begoner said was socialist, capitalist, satanist, buddhist or racist, it's still true and that is where you fail at having the right to tell him anything. If you can't see such a simple truth, or if the truth bothers you so much then perhaps you should do yourself the favor and save the forum one less condescending idiot.

What cruel and unusual abuse of the english language, it's not even clear what your trying to say here. Something along the lines of 'don't tell people what to say' I suppose.

Besides I merely suggested that begoner try to engage in a more active and critical appraisal of the points being presented, rather than simply responding with a canned aphorisms ripped from socialist dogma.

But i suppose Begoner has an edge on you jackass, as his canned slogans at least follow a logical train of coherent thought.

[Camarohusky]

Mexico problem? Since when has Mexico been a problem?

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

At 10/30/06 04:38 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Mexico problem? Since when has Mexico been a problem?

Berlin Wall? Since when has Berlin been a wall?

[EnragedSephiroth]

At 10/29/06 06:11 PM, ironzealot wrote: What cruel and unusual abuse of the english language, it's not even clear what your trying to say here. Something along the lines of 'don't tell people what to say' I suppose.

Yes that was the basic message, but to someone with an 8th grade reading level such as yourself I suppose it's a little difficult to decipher. Next you'll either try to make a comeback by saying my writing skills are below 8th grade, say you don't have to reply at all, or not reply at all for lack of intelligence thus proving your idiocy.

Besides I merely suggested that begoner try to engage in a more active and critical appraisal of the points being presented, rather than simply responding with a canned aphorisms ripped from socialist dogma.

Yes and you merely told him to leave the forum because the opinions he shares with others are not important to you, way to be tolerant.

But i suppose Begoner has an edge on you jackass, as his canned slogans at least follow a logical train of coherent thought.

It's not my fault you don't know how to read, don't take your frustrations out on me. If you can't stand it, do a favor and leave the forum as you tell the people you don't agree with.

[ironzealot]

At 10/30/06 04:12 PM, EnragedSephiroth wrote:
Yes that was the basic message, but to someone with an 8th grade reading level such as yourself I suppose it's a little difficult to decipher. Next you'll either try to make a comeback by saying my writing skills are below 8th grade, say you don't have to reply at all, or not reply at all for lack of intelligence thus proving your idiocy.

Good god what a child you are, rather than acknowledge your poorly worded blathering for what it is, you respond with "well... er.... ah.... you canna read, hehe" Please instead of further embarrassing yourself, why don't you take an objective look at the mess you posted above.

Yes and you merely told him to leave the forum because the opinions he shares with others are not important to you, way to be tolerant.

Now if you would take a moment to read carefully my earlier post you would see that I told him to engage in more critical thought and take the dogma elsewhere, not once did I suggest that he leave the forum. Besides I don't view tolerance to be the holy word that so many others seem to. If I view something to be distasteful, I will say so.

It's not my fault you don't know how to read, don't take your frustrations out on me. If you can't stand it, do a favor and leave the forum as you tell the people you don't agree with.

I reiterate my earlier reply, grow up

[Brick-top]

I think this entire form is completly useless. Imagration is a delicate buissness no matter what you do theres going to be negative backlash. open it, close it. It doesnt matter becuase the people will still complain.

[Brick-top]

At 10/28/06 09:08 PM, A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot wrote:

And to you ultra right wing conservatives: At least in America, our immigrants are Christian and have similar values. Look at the Muslim immigration in France and the rest of Europe. Those people have some unresolved issues.

Are you saying Europeans dont respect other peoples beliefes.

[Dash-Underscore-Dash]

I think the wall is much easier.

[Oblivia]

I say we allow the immigrants to come to us, what we need to do is cut the public benefits to the immigrannts so that there will be less likely be bums to mooch off our tax money. Just so you know, even though I'm saying this, I am actually part Latino and that I am a Libretarion (Libretarions are very conservative and believe that the government shouldn't interfere at all with the citizens and allow the people to actually keep their money, like the Republican Party but without the retards).

[Camarohusky]

I still fail to see how any of this is a REAL problem. Someone PLEASE tell me why we care about this non-issue.

[Faffington]

At 10/29/06 06:11 PM, ironzealot wrote:
What cruel and unusual abuse of the english language, it's not even clear what your trying to say here.

Oh the irony...
YOUR means something belonging to you (e.g. That's YOUR face).
YOU'RE means 'you are' (e.g. It's not even clear what YOU'RE trying to say here).

Besides, what EnragedSephiroth wrote was perfectly coherent. And at least what Begoner said had something to do with the topic at hand.

My view on Mexico:
I think that Begoner is right, even if apparently he just used "canned slogans". It makes sense.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

At 10/30/06 10:34 PM, internet-lord wrote:

At 10/28/06 09:08 PM, A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot wrote:

And to you ultra right wing conservatives: At least in America, our immigrants are Christian and have similar values. Look at the Muslim immigration in France and the rest of Europe. Those people have some unresolved issues.

Are you saying Europeans dont respect other peoples beliefes.

I'm not sure how you were able to infer that from my statement. No, I am not making a concrete stand on the amount of respect that Europeans give for other people's beliefs. However, unless I am completely mistaken on the situation in Europe, the muslim youths in Europe, particularly France are very unhappy with the way things are being run, so much that they've caused mass riots.

[Piromano]

I'm not american, but I agree with the idea

[ironzealot]

At 10/31/06 07:18 AM, Faffington wrote:

Oh the irony...
YOUR means something belonging to you (e.g. That's YOUR face).
YOU'RE means 'you are' (e.g. It's not even clear what YOU'RE trying to say here).

now your just nit-picking, I was speaking more along the lines of syntax and sentence structure, not useing the wrong form of a word(eg THERE, when you should have wrote THEY'RE)

Besides, what EnragedSephiroth wrote was perfectly coherent. And at least what Begoner said had something to do with the topic at hand.

granted, it was coherent in that you got a basic sense of what he attempting to communicate. Yet it was an endless slew of prepositions and object-words without a single reference to subject anywhere in the paragraph.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

At 10/31/06 02:55 PM, ironzealot wrote: now your just nit-picking, I was speaking more along the lines of syntax and sentence structure, not useing the wrong form of a word(eg THERE, when you should have wrote THEY'RE)
granted, it was coherent in that you got a basic sense of what he attempting to communicate. Yet it was an endless slew of prepositions and object-words without a single reference to subject anywhere in the paragraph.

I'm having a hard time understanding what this has to do with Mexico or Illegal immigration. I may be imagining things when I catch the faint odor of Ad Hominem, but regardless, if you are having a hard time understanding what someone is saying, a private message or polite request for clarification might work better.

[A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot]

At 10/31/06 06:41 AM, Camarohusky wrote: I still fail to see how any of this is a REAL problem. Someone PLEASE tell me why we care about this non-issue.

I'll admit, this issue has been around for decades and is only now on the news because it is politically convenient. The problem, as far as I can see it is not the economic effects of illegal immigration but that the traffic across the border is not under our control and that the people who are working in the United States are not documented and as a result, may not be properly taken into consideration when policy is determined.

The threat of a nonsecure border should be obvious, as drugs and other criminal stuff relies on an easy to cross border. A truck full of cocaine is far more dangerous than a truck full of wannabe landscapers or construction workers.

The problem of lack of documentation really worries me. I hear all sorts of conflicting information on the costs of illegal immigration and I really don't buy it. I think that people forget that even though they might not always pay income tax, their employer makes a killing off cheap labor, and as a result pays significantly more tax than he would have otherwise. Furthermore, illlegals still pay all sorts of other taxes.

Ultimately, I think that many Mexicans work harder and are more deserving than Americans of jobs. I think my plan is a step in the right direction because it puts a situation that is completely out of control, into control. Once we start making what were once illegal immigrants pay their taxes legitimately rather than using stolen social security numbers or whatever, we can accurately document how much they really are contributing to society.

I suspect that illegal immigrants are doing a whole lot of good for our country and it's a shame to try to shut them out based on unfounded fears that are really an excuse to be bigots.

Besides, even if this plan does exploit immigrants, it does not exploit them any more than they are allready being exploited. The plan merely opens the government's eyes. The information that we were getting from econometric modeling and all sorts of other BS will be replaced with real information.

[Der-Ubermensch]

The only functional solution.

[Camarohusky]

At 10/31/06 03:23 PM, A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot wrote: Some reallygood stuff.

Finally! an argument that is practical and valid! People take note, THIS is how you argue. Saying things like "Brwn Peeples take mine jobbrs!" is not a real argument.

[Jose]

At 10/31/06 04:51 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 10/31/06 03:23 PM, A-Carrot-By-Dr-Riot wrote: Some reallygood stuff.

Finally! an argument that is practical and valid! People take note, THIS is how you argue. Saying things like "Brwn Peeples take mine jobbrs!" is not a real argument.

The racist arguement is usually the easiest, because these people won't spout their true racist feelings in public. They need a median to get out their hate speech, and the internet works perfectly.

I love how the bill for this went through two months ago, but is getting hyped now because the of election. Republicans will do or say anything to get into office.

[Elfer]

At 10/30/06 10:25 PM, ironzealot wrote: Good god what a child you are, rather than acknowledge your poorly worded blathering for what it is, you respond with "well... er.... ah.... you canna read, hehe"

He's right. The message he was trying to get across was quite clear, but you have to act like a pretentious, elitist fuck about it and claim he's butchering the English language.

Based on your claim that his message was unreadable, you're either a liar or a moron.

[ironzealot]

At 10/31/06 05:48 PM, Elfer wrote:
He's right. The message he was trying to get across was quite clear, but you have to act like a pretentious, elitist fuck about it and claim he's butchering the English language.

Based on your claim that his message was unreadable, you're either a liar or a moron.

good god, all this attention paid to a such a minor issue. I was merely remarking that it was a grammatical nightmare(which it is). If I said it was unreadable it should be obvious that it was an intentional hyperbole for the purpose of argument.

Now stop whining and put this stupid discussion to bed.