The Complete Idiot's Guide to War

[ChiBangin101]

This all comes from Dennis Miller, an ex-Saturday Night Live cast member. I agree with all his points!

All the rhetoric on whether or not we should go to war
against Iraq has got my insane little brain spinning
like a roulette wheel. I enjoy reading opinions from
both sides, but I have detected a hint of confusion from
some of you. As I was reading the paper recently, I
was reminded of the best advice someone ever gave me.
He told me about the kiss method (keep it simple, stupid!).
So, with this as a theme, I'd like to apply this
theory for those who don't quite get it. My hope is
that we can simplify things a bit and recognize a few
important facts.

Here are 10 things to consider when voicing an opinion
on this important issue:

1) Between President Bush and Saddam Hussein...
Hussein is the bad guy.

2) If you have faith in the United Nations to do the
right thing, keep this in mind: They have Libya
heading the committee on human rights and Iraq
heading the global disarmament committee. Do your
own math here.

3) If you use Google search and type in "French
military victories," your reply will be:
"Did you mean French military defeats?"

4) If your only anti-war slogan is "No War For Oil,"
sue your school district for allowing you to
slip through the cracks and robbing you of the
education you deserve.

5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations
approval before they try to kill us.

6) Despite common belief, Martin Sheen is not the
president. He only plays one on TV.

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an
"infidel" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too.

8) If you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy,"
but not in the danger that Hussein poses, quit
hanging out with the Dell computer dude.

9) We are trying to liberate them. He is trying to
kill us.

10) Whether you are for military action or against it,
our young men and women overseas are fighting for
us to defend our right to speak out. We all
need to support them without reservation.

[NSS-SEPP]

yep.

and point 7 is very true indeed.

[BinLadenmustdie]

Here's a book to accompany it.

[Dagodevas]

Excellent! Those are ten points that any intelligent person who is analyzing this war would live by. No one can say it better than Dennis can.

Kazou Kiriyama

[ChiBangin101]

At 3/25/03 02:01 PM, BinLadenmustdie wrote: Here's a book to accompany it.

Haha, that was the funniest thing I've seen all week. Thanks!

[Slizor]

1) Between President Bush and Saddam Hussein...
Hussein is the bad guy.

Moral relativism is not the way to go about things.

3) If you use Google search and type in "French
military victories," your reply will be:
"Did you mean French military defeats?"

This point is so childish. Seriously people who think like this really need to grow up.

5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations
approval before they try to kill us.

Saddam has never tried to kill Americans....well only when his country is being attacked.

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an
"infidel" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too.

The war has nothing to do with bin Laden.

8) If you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy,"
but not in the danger that Hussein poses, quit
hanging out with the Dell computer dude.

See this is kind of stupid. It doesn't address if Saddam is a danger, it just tries to link people who are anti-war with people who think there is a "vast right-wing conspiracy".

9) We are trying to liberate them. He is trying to
kill us.

Hahaha. That is just plain wrong.

10) Whether you are for military action or against it,
our young men and women overseas are fighting for
us to defend our right to speak out.

Who are they fighting for again? Is it us, the Iraqi people, the government? Or maybe they are waging an aggressive war to "protect our rights". Talk about your bullshit.

[JMHX]

11. If Dennis Miller to you defines the epitome of pro-war, pro-logical reasoning, you need to give up your argument. Having Dennis Miller agree with you is like having five people disagree with you.

[NSS-SEPP]

Slizor this war has something to do with bin laden.

operation "iraqi freedom" is part of the "war against terrorism".

its known that the middle east has links to bin ladens terror network and that they support his ideas.

[Ted-Easton]

This whole "War on Terrorism" and "Pre-Emptive War" IS terrorism.

What, exactly, did Bin Ladin do to us?
An unprovoked attack based on social beliefs.

What are we trying to do to Iraq/etc?
An unprovoked attack
(they haven't attacked us)
based on social beliefs.
(we think that they are "evil")

[TheEvilOne]

First of all, Slizor, keep in mind that Dennis Miller is a comedian, and much of what he said was intended to draw laughs (particularly the France Google search thing). Now to respond to some of your points:

At 3/25/03 02:29 PM, Slizor wrote:

5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations
approval before they try to kill us.

Saddam has never tried to kill Americans....well only when his country is being attacked.

Maybe not... yet. The fact remains, however, that he has sought the weaponry to do so. With these weapons, he could attack our allies and interests in the region, or sell them to terrorists who would bring them to our own shores.

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an
"infidel" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too.

The war has nothing to do with bin Laden.

Osama and Saddam are cast from the same mold. One may be a religious fanatic, and the other a secularist, but they both hold a grudge with America, and both would kill Americans if the opportunity presented itself. To be honest, I'm not real sure about supposed links between Osama and Saddam, but I don't think we need to link them together in order to justify this war.

8) If you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy,"
but not in the danger that Hussein poses, quit
hanging out with the Dell computer dude.

See this is kind of stupid. It doesn't address if Saddam is a danger, it just tries to link people who are anti-war with people who think there is a "vast right-wing conspiracy".

Once again, this was intended as a joke. It does attempt to link the anti-war movement with the left, but tries to be funny about it, and also notes that anti-war people don't think Saddam is that dangerous (even though he is).

10) Whether you are for military action or against it,
our young men and women overseas are fighting for
us to defend our right to speak out.

Who are they fighting for again? Is it us, the Iraqi people, the government? Or maybe they are waging an aggressive war to "protect our rights". Talk about your bullshit.

Don't knock on our troops. Whether or not the cause is just, the fact remains that these men and women are willing to risk their lives for their country.

[MuscleHed]

At 3/25/03 02:15 PM, ChiBangin101 wrote: Haha, that was the funniest thing I've seen all week. Thanks!

And the most intelligent!

Slizor- Must you piece apart everything? It was meant to make you laugh, then make you think! I don’t think you even got have the jokes! Get your head our of your ass!

JudgeMeHarshX- To words: Dixie Chicks! Your going to bash the pro-war group because we have Dennis Miller, when the anti-war group have the DIXIE CHICKS! Who would you rather for a spokesperson? People, Dixie’s first single was about killing someone, brutally, so how can they talk about peace!

NSS-SEPP- Sorry, bro, your wrong, too. The reason we are attacking Iraq is because they refused to disarm. The Ben Laden is to the War with Iraq; what Slavery was to Civil War. But he is right in Correcting Slizor. You see, Slizor, many people, NSS-SEPP included, think the war is over Terrorism. Many of the Anti-War people think it is about terrorism, as well, so he couldn’t talk about the war and not talk about Ben Laden, because of all the morons in the world.

[RoboTripper]

At 3/25/03 02:49 PM, NSS-SEPP wrote: Slizor this war has something to do with bin laden.

Yeah, just mentioning him was a good way to scare Americans into doing anything.

operation "iraqi freedom" is part of the "war against terrorism".

Don't believe everything you hear on the 700 Club or Bill O'Reilly.

its known that the middle east has links to bin ladens terror network and that they support his ideas.

You're as bad as Dennis Miller. What part of the Middle East? Not Iraq - Al-Queda (along with much of the Arab world) dislikes Saddam. OBL declared him a traitor to Islam for his socialist government. I'm sure Saddam wasn't all broken up about 9-11, but that doesn't mean he had anything to do with it.

Dennis Miller sez:
9) We are trying to liberate them. He is trying to kill us.

Typical of Miller to try and slip something by - sneaky sneaky. He is equating "them" (Iraqi's) with "he" (Saddam). It should read: "We are trying to kill HIM. HE is trying to kill us." Or: "We are trying to liberate them. They don't really want us to."

[NJDeadzone]

this is what happens when comedy meets serious politics...

[Dagodevas]

At 3/25/03 02:29 PM, Slizor wrote

3) If you use Google search and type in "French
military victories," your reply will be:
"Did you mean French military defeats?"

This point is so childish. Seriously people who think like this really need to grow up.

It's Dennis Miller here. Don't deprive a man of his sense of humor.

5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations
approval before they try to kill us.

Saddam has never tried to kill Americans....well only when his country is being attacked.

Oh, so now YOU know what the CIA knows and we all don't? You don't know that for sure.

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an
"infidel" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too.

The war has nothing to do with bin Laden.

This ins't on the topic of war, it's just a fact. Adknowledge it...

8) If you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy,"
but not in the danger that Hussein poses, quit
hanging out with the Dell computer dude.

See this is kind of stupid. It doesn't address if Saddam is a danger, it just tries to link people who are anti-war with people who think there is a "vast right-wing conspiracy".

No, it's just saying it's stupid to ignore the threat the Saddam poses.

9) We are trying to liberate them. He is trying to
kill us.

Hahaha. That is just plain wrong.

Why is that?

Please refrain from being an ass...

Kazou Kiriyama

[NSS-SEPP]

Yes denksmoker thats what they say officially.

but if you can tune in to some arabian channels (through a f*ckin huge sattelite dish) and look at the pics they´re showing (people shouting and holding Saddam pics in the air, while burning the US flag)...you´ll start to think differently.

the only arabians who are truly against saddam are the kurds and kuwaities.

[bumcheekcity]

At 3/25/03 03:42 PM, Ted_Easton wrote: This whole "War on Terrorism" and "Pre-Emptive War" IS terrorism.

What, exactly, did Bin Ladin do to us?
An unprovoked attack based on social beliefs.

What are we trying to do to Iraq/etc?
An unprovoked attack
(they haven't attacked us)
based on social beliefs.
(we think that they are "evil")

i agree with you totally there, but i must correct you on one point. bin laden's attack wasn't militarily provoked, but they did provoke him by treating the palestinians like shit.

bin laden and the americans used to be allies (as were the taliban) but then they split because the americans started others like shit, namely the palestinians as i have said.

soooooooooo... yes he was provokes, and if you look into it youwould probably have done the same thing if you were in his shoes.

[bumcheekcity]

At 3/25/03 01:23 PM, ChiBangin101 wrote: 1) Between President Bush and Saddam Hussein...
Hussein is the bad guy.

Define 'bad' if you please.

2) If you have faith in the United Nations to do the
right thing, keep this in mind: They have Libya
heading the committee on human rights and Iraq
heading the global disarmament committee. Do your
own math here.

Get this... they also have AMERICA on the Security Council!!! *In Hysterics* With a VETO!!! *Rolling on floor laughing*

3) If you use Google search and type in "French
military victories," your reply will be:
"Did you mean French military defeats?"

Yer, they're right. This is pathetic.

4) If your only anti-war slogan is "No War For Oil,"
sue your school district for allowing you to
slip through the cracks and robbing you of the
education you deserve.

I dont wuite understand this one. Maybe someone can enlighten me?

5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations
approval before they try to kill us.

Neither did America.

6) Despite common belief, Martin Sheen is not the
president. He only plays one on TV.

Thats not really a point now, is it?

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an
"infidel" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too.

We are talking abou Iraq. Back to the subject, please.

9) We are trying to liberate them. He is trying to
kill us.

We are trying to kill him, and he wasn't trying to kill us, really, was he? The nearest place he could hit as Cyprus, thousandsa of miles from the USA.

10) Whether you are for military action or against it,
our young men and women overseas are fighting for
us to defend our right to speak out. We all
need to support them without reservation.

Why? they are people wh kill for a living? i have to support murderers now?

[Dagodevas]

At 3/25/03 05:03 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 3/25/03 01:23 PM, ChiBangin101 wrote: 1) Between President Bush and Saddam Hussein...
Hussein is the bad guy.

Define 'bad' if you please.

Bad...he's the antagonist. Between the two...Saddam's the one we disapprove of the most.

3) If you use Google search and type in "French
military victories," your reply will be:
"Did you mean French military defeats?"

Yer, they're right. This is pathetic.

Get a sense of humor.

4) If your only anti-war slogan is "No War For Oil,"
sue your school district for allowing you to
slip through the cracks and robbing you of the
education you deserve.

I dont wuite understand this one. Maybe someone can enlighten me?

Well, its either a crack at the grammar of "No War For Oil" and/or the whole "the war is only about the oil" claim.

5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations
approval before they try to kill us.

Neither did America.

Sometimes you gotta play their game.

6) Despite common belief, Martin Sheen is not the
president. He only plays one on TV.

Thats not really a point now, is it?

No but there are a lot of people in Middle America who treat him as if he is.

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an
"infidel" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too.

We are talking abou Iraq. Back to the subject, please.

Are we? I thought we were just talking about war on terrorism.

9) We are trying to liberate them. He is trying to
kill us.

We are trying to kill him, and he wasn't trying to kill us, really, was he? The nearest place he could hit as Cyprus, thousandsa of miles from the USA.

Saddam does pose a potential threat to us. Even if that doesn't involve blasting us with nukes he could still be harboring terrorists and giving them military and financial aid. Last time I checked everyone was against the terrorists.

10) Whether you are for military action or against it,
our young men and women overseas are fighting for
us to defend our right to speak out. We all
need to support them without reservation.

Why? they are people wh kill for a living? i have to support murderers now?

Not all of our men & women overseas are "murderers". Besides, they're just following orders. Please refrain from being an ass...

Kazou Kiriyama

[Slizor]

Saddam has never tried to kill Americans....well only when his country is being attacked.

Maybe not... yet.

Hey, Britain hasn't attacked you...yet. Bomb them!

The fact remains, however, that he has sought the weaponry to do so.

No, he sought weaponry which COULD do so. Not to do so, to do so means he had intent to attack the US. Which is idiotic since the majority of the WMDs he had/has he got during his time as an Ally of America.

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an
"infidel" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too.

The war has nothing to do with bin Laden.

Osama and Saddam are cast from the same mold. One may be a religious fanatic, and the other a secularist, but they both hold a grudge with America, and both would kill Americans if the opportunity presented itself.

I think you're going to have to prove this rabid anti-Americanism Saddam is meant to have. And the war still has nothing to do with Osama.

See this is kind of stupid. It doesn't address if Saddam is a danger, it just tries to link people who are anti-war with people who think there is a "vast right-wing conspiracy".

Once again, this was intended as a joke. It does attempt to link the anti-war movement with the left, but tries to be funny about it, and also notes that anti-war people don't think Saddam is that dangerous (even though he is).

That's not so true anyway. You can't fit anti-war people into one opinion, unlike the media cookiecutter pro-war people. :D

Who are they fighting for again? Is it us, the Iraqi people, the government? Or maybe they are waging an aggressive war to "protect our rights". Talk about your bullshit.

Don't knock on our troops. Whether or not the cause is just, the fact remains that these men and women are willing to risk their lives for their country.

Is that a good thing? Sounds kind of stupid to die for a bit of land, especially when that land is not under attack. If they were risking their lives for their country then wouldn't they be defending the US...instead of attacking Iraq?

[NSS-SEPP]

I really hate it when people call US or allied soldiers murderers.
they are just doing their job. Yes there may be some who go nuts and kill cause they like it, but most are just following commands.

It would be correcter to call the iraqis murderers. when they invaded kuwait 12 years ago. they treated the kuwaiti civilians worse than animals. killing and raping women and taking what they pleased.
And the Iraqis invaded kuwait they didnt have a UNO resolution either, or did they?

[bumcheekcity]

At 3/25/03 05:23 PM, NSS-SEPP wrote: I really hate it when people call US or allied soldiers murderers.
they are just doing their job. Yes there may be some who go nuts and kill cause they like it, but most are just following commands.

It would be correcter to call the iraqis murderers. when they invaded kuwait 12 years ago. they treated the kuwaiti civilians worse than animals. killing and raping women and taking what they pleased.
And the Iraqis invaded kuwait they didnt have a UNO resolution either, or did they?

just following commands? ok then, when you go out this morning to go to work or school, if your boss or headmaster gives you an AK-47 and says 'shootthat mman down the street with the grey jumper, would you do it?

1) the man did nothing to you.
2) the man did nothing to your boss.
3) if you do it off your own back, you are a murderer.
4) if you do it whilse getting paid for it, you are a hitman.
5) if the money comes from the government, you are a soldior.

also, in the second paragraph, you make two points and clear up what you mean by 'iraquis' in the frst line. iraquis in general? the soldiors? the government? and in the las sentence you put you have just said we (America, Britain and Iraq) are as bad as each other.

[Freakapotimus]

Dennis Miller did not write/deliver that essay. It was a Times Record News Letter to the Editor on February 26, 2003 written by a W. Wayne Schields of Wichita Falls.

[JMHX]

At 3/26/03 08:57 AM, Freakapotimus wrote: Dennis Miller did not write/deliver that essay. It was a Times Record News Letter to the Editor on February 26, 2003 written by a W. Wayne Schields of Wichita Falls.

Well that really cuts the argument in half. Who wants to swarm the post creator for miscredit and who's going to continue with the political stuff? Haha, not really. I just think that celebrities should have their opinions all brought together on some orgy of an hour long television special, and then forfeit all right to talk about it. By this I mean Martin Sheen, too.

[Anti-corruption]

You cannot believe someone's judgement, especially he's a joker.
if he wants to create joke at least create intellectual joke that have strong viewpoint that makes one wants to lol. example:- watch TITUS, a sitcom. this kind of sitcom is called satire what the greeks will say for their play.

making sarcastic play or jokes that dislike what the gov't is doing or what the majority is doing.

the key of making this kind of joke is simply making a sarcastic remark or simply blabbing a sterotype ending for those ppl you dislike, shaming them.

Serious thing like war, i don't think we should take it lightly. it's involved the matter of your life or death.

[JMHX]

At 3/26/03 09:33 AM, Anti-corruption wrote: [Insert everything Anti-corruption said]

*finishes reading* What the hell were you trying to say? I don't understand any of it? Are you from Norway, perhaps?

[Anti-corruption]

making a detailed judgment of what the very first thread had said.
By the way, I'm not from Norway.

[JudgeDredd]

At 3/25/03 02:49 PM, NSS-SEPP wrote: Slizor this war has something to do with bin laden.
operation "iraqi freedom" is part of the "war against terrorism".
its known that the middle east has links to bin ladens terror network and that they support his ideas.

** Puts on Fake NemisisZ Voice **

Buy a world map and circle all "axis of evil" kuntries, then squat'n'krap on them you NO PROFILE lvl 1 L00zer!

[JMHX]

At 3/26/03 09:55 AM, Judge_DREDD wrote:

At 3/25/03 02:49 PM, NSS-SEPP wrote:

** Puts on Fake NemisisZ Voice **

Buy a world map and circle all "axis of evil" kuntries, then squat'n'krap on them you NO PROFILE lvl 1 L00zer!

For the sake of all of us, just...dont' do that anymore.

[TheEvilOne]

At 3/25/03 05:17 PM, Slizor wrote:

The fact remains, however, that he has sought the weaponry to do so.

No, he sought weaponry which COULD do so. Not to do so, to do so means he had intent to attack the US. Which is idiotic since the majority of the WMDs he had/has he got during his time as an Ally of America.

He's not an ally of America anymore, and yet still has some of these weapons. He could still use the weapons that we gave him against us. There is also evidence that he has tried to acquire more weapons since 1991. You are right about the "COULD do so" part, but more on that later.

I think you're going to have to prove this rabid anti-Americanism Saddam is meant to have. And the war still has nothing to do with Osama.

I can't "prove" anything, but it's a pretty safe assumption after what we did to him in the first Gulf War. I may be wrong about the "he definitely would kill Americans" part, but he has attacked his neighbors in the past, and I would bet he would use these weapons to do so again, as well as our interests in the region. I also doubt that he's above trying to make a quick buck by selling weapons to terrorists who would use them on American soil. I can't "prove" that he would take advantage of these opportunities, but I still don't think we should let him have these opportunities.

[BinLadenmustdie]

This assertion that Iraq has done nothing to America is a joke.

1. Iraq has shot thousands of times at out planes in the no-fly zone since '91, including hundreds of times this year alone - That's an act of war. (The no-fly zones were in place as part of the cease fire of the original Gulf War -- yet another cease fire violation of Saddam)

2. Saddam had an attempted assassination attempt vs. Bush Sr. foiled. But he hasn't done anything to the US, right?

3. Saddam has declared jihad on America (just like Bin Laden). The leader of a country declaring this is like us declaring war. He's also called for, in several broadcasts over the last months, the killing and destruction of Americans anywhere, anytime, any place.

That's not a direct threat to the United States and its people? Some people need to stop getting caught up in "their generation's Woodstock" and learn some facts about what's going on.