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At 3/27/03 11:44 AM, Disguy_youknow wrote:

At 3/27/03 07:20 AM, swayside wrote:

At 3/26/03 08:31 PM, zMDude wrote: Religion should be kept out of public schools.

Creationism isn't just "from the bible", it is the bible, as it assumes the stories found in Genesis.

Thank you, someone finally said it.

At 3/27/03 01:32 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote:

Creationism isn't just "from the bible", it is the bible, as it assumes the stories found in Genesis.

Thank you, someone finally said it.

well, the both of you are wrong. do you think only christians believe creationism? do you think all creationists are christian? if you do, then you lack the basic knowledge to post here.

At 3/27/03 05:25 PM, swayside wrote: well, the both of you are wrong. do you think only christians believe creationism?

True. Good point. But in the US, almost all creationists are Christian. Or Jewish. Or Muslim. In that order.

At 3/26/03 10:12 PM, jazz_mazter wrote: *ahem* Had YOU read up on evolution[...]

What I wrote obviously wasn't taken directly from Darwin.

Secondly, It is interpretation of the text, and I merely argue that since [selective breeding/artificial selection, take your pick, same difference] can be observed, and is a fact- that it supports evolution ( evolution as a fact ).

Macro evolution? Micro evolution? Complex organs? No, just arguing for my opinion that evolution is fact.

Pardon me for not being ultra-precise in my wording.
You do have more than a few valid points and opinions, but I also believe that my opinions are strong and supported.

Lastly, let me state that I do not presume to know everything on this subject. I merely attempt to form an unbiased opinion and share that with you all. I would not have posted had not 95% of the posts been the same trite circumstantial evidence of evolution. At the same time, I personally do believe in evolution, just not in the way described thus far. There is truth which can be found, but as a whole, mankind has failed to discover it. Does evolution occur every day? Of course. Did we evolve from tiny prokaryotic life? Possibly. Does macro evolution, as we speculate to occur, occur indeed? Nope. Was the universe created by a "big bang?" Sure, it makes sense, but where did the driving force behind the big bang come from if the law of conservation of energy holds true?

And I'd like to point out that I am not holding what Darwin said as an absolute, but the best and most reasonable explanation available. In my context, facts are opinions supported by the best evidence. Keyword: Context.
I also do not state my unending knowledge of this subject. I never once made that claim.

In any case, evolution has evolved since Darwin's day.
I am arguing against the blunt statement of creationism (which I believe is only being used to try and discredit evolution) vs evolution.

Anyhoo-

This thread is about teaching creationism in schools.

I believe that where evolution is widely accepted by the academic and scientific communities of the world as true, creationism is a religious belief, and not supported by anything other than religion (religion is inherent in creationism. ie, god made us).

I will never believe that teaching religion (or religious beliefs) should happen in public schools, because it is forcing the faith of some upon others, and is a direct violation of the separation of church and state.

This is my opinion.

This visual aide shows a point not well expressed by words...

At 3/27/03 07:14 PM, TheShrike wrote:

At 3/27/03 05:25 PM, swayside wrote: well, the both of you are wrong. do you think only christians believe creationism?

True. Good point. But in the US, almost all creationists are Christian. Or Jewish. Or Muslim. In that order.

some pagans believe creationism too.

At 3/27/03 09:46 PM, TheShrike wrote: I am arguing against the blunt statement of creationism (which I believe is only being used to try and discredit evolution) vs evolution.

Err-
I am arguing against the argument of creationism (which I believe is only being used to try and discredit evolution) vs evolution.

This agrument shouldn't be about trying to persuade people to give up or begin believing in creationism. A number of people don't believe in it, and beliefs in anything should not be forced on anyone.

At 3/27/03 09:54 PM, OpIvy420 wrote: This agrument shouldn't be about trying to persuade people to give up or begin believing in creationism. A number of people don't believe in it, and beliefs in anything should not be forced on anyone.

Than why is there a politics forum?

At 3/27/03 10:08 PM, jimsween wrote:

Than why is there a politics forum?

for people like you. feel special.

FEEL special, I AM special.

At 3/27/03 10:18 PM, jimsween wrote: FEEL special, I AM special.

good for you.

At 3/27/03 10:08 PM, jimsween wrote:

At 3/27/03 09:54 PM, OpIvy420 wrote: This agrument shouldn't be about trying to persuade people to give up or begin believing in creationism. A number of people don't believe in it, and beliefs in anything should not be forced on anyone.

Than why is there a politics forum?

'Cause it didn't seem to belong anywhere else.

Kazuo Kiriyama

P.S.: OMFG! This is a HOT topic! I didn't expect it to get so popular! I got to make a new debate topic!

At 3/27/03 10:43 PM, Kazuo_Kiriyama wrote:
P.S.: OMFG! This is a HOT topic! I didn't expect it to get so popular! I got to make a new debate topic!

don't get too excited, it's just two pages. besides, you really don't have much to do with how "successful" one of your topics is.

yessir i expect more firestarters from ya

I think that they should mention the existence of other alternative theories of the formation of the world other than evolution. That's all I want. And I happen to believe in creation, and would you call me an ignorant Bible-thumper?

At 3/27/03 11:45 PM, Jlop985 wrote: I think that they should mention the existence of other alternative theories of the formation of the world other than evolution. That's all I want. And I happen to believe in creation, and would you call me an ignorant Bible-thumper?

they might, i wouldn't. you don't have to have anything to do with the bible in order to believe in creation.

it's really difficult to comprehend a sponateuous creation of a universe...at least for me

At 3/27/03 09:47 PM, swayside wrote: some pagans believe creationism too.

Yeah, but this is America. Christianity's back yard.

At 3/27/03 11:48 PM, swayside wrote:

At 3/27/03 11:45 PM, Jlop985 wrote: I think that they should mention the existence of other alternative theories of the formation of the world other than evolution. That's all I want. And I happen to believe in creation, and would you call me an ignorant Bible-thumper?

they might, i wouldn't. you don't have to have anything to do with the bible in order to believe in creation.

This may be true, but again... this is America we are talking about. And the movement behind creationism here is... Christianity!!!

At 3/27/03 11:51 PM, NJDeadzone wrote: it's really difficult to comprehend a sponateuous creation of a universe...at least for me

That's precisely the point, actually.

First of all, I'll state here for the record: It's a difficult and complex thing to pick apart, but if it has to be simplified, I DO NOT think that creationism or spirituality should be taught in public schools. I re-read my statement, and to be honest...if I want my child to learn with spirituality, I'll choose an appropriate private school.

The comprehension of what happened and how, especially with Creationism, has everything to do with faith. I dont comprehend it, either. But I don't try to comprehend what God does. If I did, I'd drive myself insane.

That's really the topic of this forum...not whether or not Creationism or Evolution is correct. That, gentlemen, is comparing apples and oranges.

You can give me all the science you want. You can throw facts at me til I'm in my death bed. That will not make my faith budge.

Opinion, if it's truly based on mistaken information, can be proven faulty by fact.

Faith exsists beyond fact. You can tell me there is no God. And I can tell you that until you are able to be everywhere in this universe at the exact same time, you will not ever prove to me that there is no God.

Faith is something that you cannot disprove. Give me graphs and scientists and Darwin himself telling me about his birds and the science of evolution...and I would just smile and say, 'I have faith in Christ.'

Trying to disprove someone's faulty facts is one thing.

Trying to change their faith is another.

At 3/27/03 11:32 PM, swayside wrote: don't get too excited, it's just two pages. besides, you really don't have much to do with how "successful" one of your topics is.

Yeah, I know. I'm not taking any credit here, I'm just happy it didn't get buried underneath all of the Iraqi war topics. :-P

Kazuo Kiriyama

At 3/28/03 02:29 AM, House_Of_Leaves wrote: [...]

*claps*

First off, a theory is not fact. If it was, they'd call it fact and not a theory. Theory is merely a scientific opinion, one in this case is such that to those who don't believe in Creationism, is the best possible explaination.

I believe in Creationism, but I'm aware that there's only once source that states it, which is the bible. The only way to know if that's fact is to die. Until then, that teaching is strictly on the belief system. This is why there are those who discredit Creationism. People who want more evidence than just a belief. I can understand that. It's not easy to debate a belief.

But if I may play devil's advocate to my own belief, a debater can argue Creationism by a three word question.

Who created God?

P.S. There is a unknown accepted religion here on Newgrounds that believe in the father, son and the Digital_Ghost. (Be gentle with the tomato throwing :-))

At 3/28/03 12:00 AM, TheShrike wrote:

At 3/27/03 09:47 PM, swayside wrote: some pagans believe creationism too.

Yeah, but this is America. Christianity's back yard.

so the only reason we shouldn't teach both theories is because one might lead to some kind of related belief? if that's so, why are you for the teaching of evolution? evolution teaches a godless origins, shuns the need for morals, and claims that we're all just monkeys. (while george bush may look like a chimp, he's certainly not related to one.) while creationism teaches there is a god. that's it. you don't have to go into morality to teach it.

At 3/28/03 07:00 AM, swayside wrote:

At 3/28/03 12:00 AM, TheShrike wrote:

At 3/27/03 09:47 PM, swayside wrote:

so the only reason we shouldn't teach both theories is because one might lead to some kind of related belief? if that's so, why are you for the teaching of evolution? evolution teaches a godless origins, shuns the need for morals, and claims that we're all just monkeys.

You say it like it's a bad thing. Monkeys are very intelligent and have been known to hang from their tails. Who wouldn't want THAT?

At 3/28/03 09:30 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: You say it like it's a bad thing. Monkeys are very intelligent and have been known to hang from their tails. Who wouldn't want THAT?

I wouldn't.

At 3/28/03 07:00 AM, swayside wrote:

so the only reason we shouldn't teach both theories is because one might lead to some kind of related belief? if that's so, why are you for the teaching of evolution? evolution teaches a godless origins, shuns the need for morals, and claims that we're all just monkeys. (while george bush may look like a chimp, he's certainly not related to one.) while creationism teaches there is a god. that's it. you don't have to go into morality to teach it.

Thats the kind of logic that made it so they could teach homosexuality as an acceptable alternative to sex in schools.

At 3/28/03 03:53 PM, jimsween wrote:

At 3/28/03 07:00 AM, swayside wrote:

so the only reason we shouldn't teach both theories is because one might lead to some kind of related belief? if that's so, why are you for the teaching of evolution? evolution teaches a godless origins, shuns the need for morals, and claims that we're all just monkeys. (while george bush may look like a chimp, he's certainly not related to one.) while creationism teaches there is a god. that's it. you don't have to go into morality to teach it.

Thats the kind of logic that made it so they could teach homosexuality as an acceptable alternative to sex in schools.

You don't EVEN want to go there, buddy. You wanna have a discussion about it, you might wanna make a thread instead of putting it in this one. But I'll tell you flat out: homosexuality is a fact of life.

I'm all for homosexuality but I wouldnt want them teaching my kids to be homosexual, thats forcing your beliefs on someone.

At 3/28/03 07:00 AM, swayside wrote: evolution teaches a godless origins,

Not true. God and evolution can be combined, many religious people believe in both. Evolution just discounts the literal translation of Genesis, it does not discount creation.

shuns the need for morals,

Why?

and claims that we're all just monkeys.

Don't be ashamed of your origins... monkeys ain't so bad.