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Examine the past, look into Germany circa 1932. A democracy can evolve into a fascist state.

The Weimar republic turned into a fascist state due to A) poor constitutional restraints B) popularity for a fascist party C) a very unstable government. It is true that a democracy can evolve into a fascist state, but not that it will.

What do you mean by actual democracy? Do you mean non representative democracy? If so then you must realize that such a system isn't possible on a large scale.

No I mean proportional representation combined with elements of direct democracy.

Now, why would the government want to expand into a fascist state? And how could it with a system of "checks and balances"?

People are inherently drawn to power.

Bullshit. And this statement can not be proven.

When given as much power as you propose a government will have little difficulty drawing more power.

Not with a system of checks and balances..

They could actually go from a toilet cleaner to President! Is that not sucess?

If the government decides that a person should then he could.

No, if the people elect him.

His fate is controlled by the whim of the government, so if he plays good little pawn he might live better but what if he questions his government?

There is freedom of speech.....so nothing would happen.

Your material wealth may not change but you will not live in the same condition. Why you had to stick sad in there....

So the government decides how well you live?

No.

Are jobs just given in a Capitalist society?

No they are not, they are earned.

And what makes you think a Communist society would not get people to earn their jobs? Anyhow, not all jobs in a Capitalist society are earnt, but that is not what I wanted to illustrate.

Hahahaha. You can be whatever you want to be, the sky is the limit.

Yes you can be whatever you want if the government deems it so.

Would you stop with this? It does get tiring, or at least try and make an argument which I can have a go at, instead of these off the cuff remarks.

Hey just because your only motivation is to make money it doesn't mean everyone elses is.

No? Go asking around, you will find very few people who are unconcerned with money and material goods.

Please listen. I said "just because your only motivation is to make money". This doesn't mean that other people are unconcerned with money and material goods, it's that it is not the only reason they work.

Such laws are technically against sodomy. They wouldn't be legal if they specifically banned homosexuality. They exist because of religious types who make state laws.

So being so Americo-centric. Laws exist in other countries too y'know.

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At 3/27/03 11:52 AM, Slizor wrote:

No I mean proportional representation combined with elements of direct democracy.

Explain the difference to me between this and the democratic system in the U.S. which you so despise.

Now, why would the government want to expand into a fascist state? And how could it with a system of "checks and balances"?

People are inherently drawn to power.

Bullshit. And this statement can not be proven.

Oh it can, history attests to it. Much as it attests that communism doesn't work.

Are jobs just given in a Capitalist society?

No they are not, they are earned.

And what makes you think a Communist society would not get people to earn their jobs? Anyhow, not all jobs in a Capitalist society are earnt, but that is not what I wanted to illustrate.

What is the point of earning a better job without better pay? Yes you will be more satisfied in your work but you will also have more of it for many important jobs. If I could just choose what I wanted to do without regard of pay I would be quite happy being a writer as would many people but this has little physical benefit for society. Jobs like engineer which are difficult, take a great deal of training, and are of great benefit to society would be in great defecit.

Hey just because your only motivation is to make money it doesn't mean everyone elses is.

No? Go asking around, you will find very few people who are unconcerned with money and material goods.

Please listen. I said "just because your only motivation is to make money". This doesn't mean that other people are unconcerned with money and material goods, it's that it is not the only reason they work.

Yes but it is the most important one and an important reason behind the job they choose. Yes intellectually satisfying jobs might be filled as well as simple ones that recquire little training but what of thankless, difficult jobs taking a great deal of training?

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Examine the past, look into Germany circa 1932. A democracy can evolve into a fascist state.

oh come on, if a party is solid enough, the party will definitely can't be morphed. you mean evolution. nonsense. human are created.

anyway, a solid political party decisions will be all depends on their party manifesto and motto and not on the sides of majority.

you know why cause a rules will not change because it's not alive.

but a human will definitely change due to circumstances and bad company. hence, human will definitely become corrupted.

so it's better to stick to the golden rules, the biblical priniciple than to human beings.

watch out, some ppl out there in society are hypocrite.

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At 3/29/03 11:06 PM, Anti-corruption wrote: oh come on, if a party is solid enough, the party will definitely can't be morphed. you mean evolution. nonsense. human are created.

Why does evolution have to disagree with your concept of god?

Your faith is either very weak or very narrow minded.

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No big offence here.

you mean evolution. nonsense. human are created.

I guess that statement i wrote is a bit off topic.

but still the entire thread is still referring to that very statement i 'm debating with.

anyway, from what you say just now. by saying your faith is weak. i think you simply can't judge a person's faith totally by merely his statement but by his actions and his motive.

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At 3/29/03 11:16 PM, Anti-corruption wrote: anyway, from what you say just now. by saying your faith is weak. i think you simply can't judge a person's faith totally by merely his statement but by his actions and his motive.

What I am saying is that Religion is fine. I was religous at one point, but one cannot deny a logical concept such as evolution merely because your church says it is false.

God works in mysterious ways.

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anyway, religion shouldn't be mixed with politics. it's like oil mixed with water. it just won't dissolve. My advice:- don't become an Islamic pious extremists.
however, religion should determine or change a person's character and his personality and his motives.

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No I mean proportional representation combined with elements of direct democracy.

Explain the difference to me between this and the democratic system in the U.S. which you so despise.

It would take far too long. But I'll give you this for free, the amount of representation a party gets in a Government does not reflect its actual support.

Bullshit. And this statement can not be proven.

Oh it can, history attests to it.

History can not ever attest to something psychological, that's not a real experiment.

Much as it attests that communism doesn't work.

History never repeats itself.

And what makes you think a Communist society would not get people to earn their jobs? Anyhow, not all jobs in a Capitalist society are earnt, but that is not what I wanted to illustrate.

What is the point of earning a better job without better pay? Yes you will be more satisfied in your work but you will also have more of it for many important jobs. If I could just choose what I wanted to do without regard of pay I would be quite happy being a writer as would many people but this has little physical benefit for society. Jobs like engineer which are difficult, take a great deal of training, and are of great benefit to society would be in great defecit.

Well of course there would be an imbalance of passions so the Government would have to encourage people. And if something doesn't work out, you can always train for another job. The state would totally encourage lifelong learning.

Please listen. I said "just because your only motivation is to make money". This doesn't mean that other people are unconcerned with money and material goods, it's that it is not the only reason they work.

Yes but it is the most important one and an important reason behind the job they choose. Yes intellectually satisfying jobs might be filled as well as simple ones that recquire little training but what of thankless, difficult jobs taking a great deal of training?

Like?

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At 3/30/03 06:32 AM, Slizor wrote:

Explain the difference to me between this and the democratic system in the U.S. which you so despise.

It would take far too long. But I'll give you this for free, the amount of representation a party gets in a Government does not reflect its actual support.

It is very difficult to properly judge this.

Much as it attests that communism doesn't work.

History never repeats itself.

Oh yes it does. The same patterns repeat themselves again and again throughout history. Think about it every major communist state that has ever existed has eventually crumbled into totalitarianism.

Well of course there would be an imbalance of passions so the Government would have to encourage people. And if something doesn't work out, you can always train for another job. The state would totally encourage lifelong learning.

You see, you recquire the government to encourage people. This function is done naturally in a capitalist system by varying salaries.

Yes but it is the most important one and an important reason behind the job they choose. Yes intellectually satisfying jobs might be filled as well as simple ones that recquire little training but what of thankless, difficult jobs taking a great deal of training?

Like?

Engineer, most anything in bussiness management, a great number of technology oriented jobs (systems analysts and the like), accountant, and the list goes on.....

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It would take far too long. But I'll give you this for free, the amount of representation a party gets in a Government does not reflect its actual support.

It is very difficult to properly judge this.

Not really, the Republicans got what about half of the votes in the Congressional elections yet they control (and I mean control) the House.

History never repeats itself.

Oh yes it does. The same patterns repeat themselves again and again throughout history.

People may try to draw conclusions of that sort, but history never repeats itself, it may cause other events, ut it never repeats itself.

Think about it every major communist state that has ever existed has eventually crumbled into totalitarianism.

Do you want to go into the actual history surrounding these states, or shall we leave it vague so your point stands?

You see, you recquire the government to encourage people. This function is done naturally in a capitalist system by varying salaries.

That's not true. Just because salaries change, doesn't mean people's dreams do. Surely, if this varying of salaries worked then some sort of parity would be met.

Like?

Engineer, most anything in bussiness management, a great number of technology oriented jobs (systems analysts and the like), accountant, and the list goes on.....

I can understand that you find these jobs thankless, but not everyone will..especially engineering.

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At 3/30/03 01:07 PM, Slizor wrote: People may try to draw conclusions of that sort, but history never repeats itself, it may cause other events, ut it never repeats itself.

Oh, c'mon...
Look at the Back to the Future trilogy!</sarcasm>