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At 10/16/06 05:04 PM, defactoidZERO wrote:

At 10/16/06 04:52 PM, UnusQuoMeridianus wrote: so does regular secks, if it aint broke, why fix it?

but secks os for gathic industrials who think normal secks is too normal.

Sodomy is sodomy.

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote: We cannot allow homosexuals to amrry. We must preserve the sanctity of the institution of marriage. It is a special bond between a man and a women. It is pure and cannot be corrputed by sodomites. It is a tradition as old as man, the last bastion of moral decency.

I am amazed! In all my time trying to witness to this site, I never imagined there would be others doing the same. Good work JoS, and thank you for your efforts!
God Bless.

At 10/16/06 05:57 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote:

I am amazed! In all my time trying to witness to this site, I never imagined there would be others doing the same. Good work JoS, and thank you for your efforts!
God Bless.

Your a dumbass if you didn't see his sarcasm in the posts.

Look at the pictures.

At 10/16/06 05:57 PM, jlwelch wrote: I am amazed! In all my time trying to witness to this site, I never imagined there would be others doing the same. Good work JoS, and thank you for your efforts!
God Bless.

Eeh...heheheheh! Oh man I'm in the school library right now and I'm trying not to laugh but tears are welling up in my eyes from holding it in. Wow, talk about walking right into a bear-trap. *Wipes eye* ah that was classic.

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote: We cannot allow homosexuals to amrry. We must preserve the sanctity of the institution of marriage. It is a special bond between a man and a women. It is pure and cannot be corrputed by sodomites. It is a tradition as old as man, the last bastion of moral decency.

true because if we let gay people be allowed to be reckognized....then where do we stop...?
who draws the line?

Gays shouldnt be allowed to mary reffering to the christian ceremony of mairrage. The bible is strictly anti gay so the gays saying they want the christian ceremony of mairraige are just being dicks to the church. They should however be able to do that one thing, i dont know the name, but its that thing where they get couple statis in the eyes of the government. At least thats what i think

At 10/16/06 07:41 PM, Boarean wrote: Gays shouldnt be allowed to mary reffering to the christian ceremony of mairrage. The bible is strictly anti gay so the gays saying they want the christian ceremony of mairraige are just being dicks to the church. They should however be able to do that one thing, i dont know the name, but its that thing where they get couple statis in the eyes of the government. At least thats what i think

The bible also says you shouldn't curse and plainly you said "dicks" so what's your point? You don't come into the argument with clean hands so it hurts your credibility :/

Marriage is for chumps.

Be they fudge packers or not.

At 10/16/06 06:41 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 10/16/06 05:57 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote:

I am amazed! In all my time trying to witness to this site, I never imagined there would be others doing the same. Good work JoS, and thank you for your efforts!
God Bless.

Your a dumbass if you didn't see his sarcasm in the posts.

Look at the pictures.

Heh. I'd have thought you'd figured out that jwelch is a troll by now.

Anyway, I think that marriage should have two main elements or ceremonies (one of which being optional); the first one being a secular, legal marriage that almost everyone could get (includiong gays but [possibly] not including things like, let's say, animals or near relatives), and the second one being a religious ceremony or celebration that you could have with friends & family, where you make your union recognizied by the supernatural or whatever you want to do with it. If you wanted to get married in a church or a private religious building of some sort, I think they should be given the right to refuse to perform the ceremony if they don't agree with the marriage.

Yeah, something like that.

Marriage is about two people, a man and women who love achother for who theya re, nto what theya re or how much money they have or any of that other superficial crap. they love eachother and they want to have a family togetehr, their own children. Our birth rate is on the decline and we need people to marry so they can have childrena nd reproduce. that is one of the essential parts of marriage. Hwo can two homosexuals have children? Marriage is about love, conenctions and babies.

At 10/16/06 09:03 PM, JoS wrote: Marriage is about two people, a man and women who love achother for who theya re, nto what theya re or how much money they have or any of that other superficial crap. they love eachother and they want to have a family togetehr, their own children. Our birth rate is on the decline and we need people to marry so they can have childrena nd reproduce. that is one of the essential parts of marriage. Hwo can two homosexuals have children? Marriage is about love, conenctions and babies.

Homosexuality is about two people, same sex, who feel their sexual needs should come before anything else. They don't want children, because if they did, couldn't they just like make one of their own? The homosexuality rate is on the rise, because pollution is making the internet abort it's freedom of information act. Unless we have laws that say the internet can't do that, we're all gunna be put in a gulag.

George Bush hates gay people.

At 10/16/06 09:03 PM, JoS wrote: Marriage is about two people, a man and women who love achother for who theya re, nto what theya re or how much money they have or any of that other superficial crap. they love eachother and they want to have a family togetehr, their own children. Our birth rate is on the decline and we need people to marry so they can have childrena nd reproduce. that is one of the essential parts of marriage. Hwo can two homosexuals have children? Marriage is about love, conenctions and babies.

I think we have a pretty large population as is. I think we need to close our legs for a minute and maybe adopt a few children. >.>

On the note on how marriage is supposed to be good and pure and blah blah blah-blah, I think the only way to get rid of a lot of this unneeded bullshit (lots of divorces, gang violence, etc.) is to start being better parents, coaches, teachers and mentors. If you have a dumb jackass as an authority figure as a kid, you're not going to tend to respect authority. None of this was really on subject, but I just felt like rambling and getting thoughts floating aroundmy mind out of my head.

At 10/16/06 08:22 PM, Werewolf91 wrote:

At 10/16/06 06:41 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 10/16/06 05:57 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote:

Heh. I'd have thought you'd figured out that jwelch is a troll by now.

Yeah, something like that.

sigh...I am not a troll, I happen to believe what I post and I guess it was nieve of me to believe that JoS was a true Christian. It is a truly sad day when the common sensical is stated with sarcasm for humor purposes. How backwards has our society been twisted? How far have we sunk in moral depraivity? The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination so we should not allow it to run rampant. It is an afront to the True Word of God!

I think gay people should be allowed to marry simply because it is none of my business what someone chooses to do. I honestly don't mind, however I do not wish to see men making out on the sidewalk and stuff like that.

At 10/16/06 10:31 PM, jlwelch wrote:

sigh...I am not a troll, I happen to believe what I post and I guess it was nieve of me to believe that JoS was a true Christian. It is a truly sad day when the common sensical is stated with sarcasm for humor purposes. How backwards has our society been twisted? How far have we sunk in moral depraivity? The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination so we should not allow it to run rampant. It is an afront to the True Word of God!

amen. then again a 700 year old man building a boat the size of michigan is the word of god too, so.....

At 10/16/06 10:55 PM, michelinman wrote:

At 10/16/06 10:31 PM, jlwelch wrote:

amen. then again a 700 year old man building a boat the size of michigan is the word of god too, so.....

And your point is...?

At 10/16/06 10:55 PM, michelinman wrote:

At 10/16/06 10:31 PM, jlwelch wrote:

amen. then again a 700 year old man building a boat the size of michigan is the word of god too, so.....

I know it's off topic, but I hear that a nautical engineer took the specifications of Noah's ark from the bible and determined that, with the technology that was available to folks in that region at that point in history, Noah's ark would actuall be seaworthy if built exactly as written. It wouldn't hold every animal in the entire world, but given that the guy lived in the desert it's a fair bet that the 'whole world' from Noah's perspective would have been a really small place indeed.

At 10/16/06 10:31 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 08:22 PM, Werewolf91 wrote:

At 10/16/06 06:41 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 10/16/06 05:57 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote:

The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination so we should not allow it to run rampant. It is an afront to the True Word of God!

The Bible aint law in these parts.

I'm a Christian just like you, but I don't care.

I'm not the one sinning.

Try to help them, then let them make thier own choices.

At 10/16/06 08:21 PM, ImmoralLibertarian wrote: Be they fudge packers or not.

that must be such a great job.

At 10/17/06 02:42 PM, UnusQuoMeridianus wrote:

At 10/16/06 08:21 PM, ImmoralLibertarian wrote: Be they fudge packers or not.

that must be such a great job.

My sister was a fudge packer... >_>

no, seriously, she worked at Kilwins for like 3 years... they make fudge >_>

At 10/17/06 03:12 PM, Ravariel wrote:

no, seriously, she worked at Kilwins for like 3 years... they make fudge >_>

Oh. I thought she had a penis.

At 10/16/06 09:03 PM, JoS wrote: Marriage is about love, conenctions and babies.

Spoken like a true champion. That picture does a whole lot of good to the institution of marriage as well ;) nice.

At 10/16/06 10:31 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 08:22 PM, Werewolf91 wrote:

At 10/16/06 06:41 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 10/16/06 05:57 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote:

:The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination so we should not allow it to run rampant. It is an afront to the True Word of God!

Prove that your religion has power over the law, and then we can ban gay marriage. What about people who aren't Christians? What about people who don't believe homosexuality is an abomination? And what about people who are homosexual themselves, who can't do a thing to change it? You can't make the law change because your religion says so. And besides, who would be hurt by gay people getting married? Who would it be taking away from? And don't say "God" and start telling me "the Bible says this" and "the Bible says that".

Why do you need a binding contract that says you like another person? I dont get the whole thing about marriage.

At 10/17/06 04:59 PM, MonstroMan wrote:

At 10/16/06 10:31 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 08:22 PM, Werewolf91 wrote:

At 10/16/06 06:41 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 10/16/06 05:57 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote:

Prove that your religion has power over the law, and then we can ban gay marriage.

Very well.

http://mb-soft.com/b..eve/txw/bibleaut.htm

::
:What about people who aren't Christians?

They are the ones who desperately need to hear God's Word, and learn of the beautiful blessing Christ's sacrifice was for us!

::
:What about people who don't believe homosexuality is an abomination?

What about people who don't believe in gravity? What about people who don't believe in oxygen? Whether they believe or not does not shake the Truth!

::
:And what about people who are homosexual themselves, who can't do a thing to change it?

That is still a matter of debate as I still have a strong feeling (based on personal observation) that it may be nurture, not nature.

::
:You can't make the law change because your religion says so.

Actually it is wrong that it has not been made this way originally. It needs correction and this is it.

::
:And besides, who would be hurt by gay people getting married?

Who would be hurt if I suddenly started worshiping Moloch or some false god? Who would be hurt if I suddenly became a homosexual? Who would be hurt if I began coveting my neighbor's wife? I WOULD! It may not affect us, but it is selfish not to tend to the needs of those who need spiritual help. God clearly states it is an abomination and to simply allow them to continue on their path to Hell without at least warning them or trying to stop them would not be very compassionate would it?

::
:Who would it be taking away from?

Themselves, spiritually. Its like saying why can't a mentally handicapped person continue to operate in the real world, outside an asylum. NonChristians need help! Not mentally, but spiritually. If a homosexual was a Christian and honestly tried to fight his lust whist repenting for his slip ups, he is fine! God loves the homosexual (the person) but not his sin. Just as he loves all of us, but not our sins. However, most homosexuals seem intent on defiling the meaning of marraige which tells me that particular social group is still in need of help.

::
:And don't say "God" and start telling me "the Bible says this" and "the Bible says that".

I was not going to say God. However, telling me not to quote Scripture in a moral debate is like telling an evolutionist to quit citing scientific data...it makes no sense!

At 10/17/06 06:04 PM, jlwelch wrote: Very well.

http://mb-soft.com/b..eve/txw/bibleaut.htm

Oh my lord a different link for once!

What about people who don't believe in gravity? What about people who don't believe in oxygen? Whether they believe or not does not shake the Truth!

I see what you mean, but if you don't believe in gravity all you need to do is let something fall and it is proven. One can say if you don't believe in God all you need to do is look at life, and I agree with you on a deeper spiritual level but scientifically looking at life doesn't prove much about God unless you go into unexplained things such as the start of the universe.

That is still a matter of debate as I still have a strong feeling (based on personal observation) that it may be nurture, not nature.

As with many other cases not involving homsexuality, it can be a little bit of both with variations between genetics and culture.

Actually it is wrong that it has not been made this way originally. It needs correction and this is it.

Sounds like delusions of grandeur and ethnic cleansing to me, kind of like what Hitler used to say...

Who would be hurt if I suddenly started worshiping Moloch or some false god? Who would be hurt if I suddenly became a homosexual? Who would be hurt if I began coveting my neighbor's wife? I WOULD! It may not affect us, but it is selfish not to tend to the needs of those who need spiritual help. God clearly states it is an abomination and to simply allow them to continue on their path to Hell without at least warning them or trying to stop them would not be very compassionate would it?

Live and let live, this philosophy is even conveyed in Christian teachings because you are not supposed to force people to convert to the gospel. Your only duty is to inform them, whether they choose to accept it or not is a matter of free will. Such is what many Christians fail to see >:/

I was not going to say God. However, telling me not to quote Scripture in a moral debate is like telling an evolutionist to quit citing scientific data...it makes no sense!

No, quoting religion in a debate which entails science is pretty absurd because in order to back your arguments you need EMPIRICAL DATA which has been tried and tested time and time again and always holds true, such is scientific law.

http://www.google.co..=define%3A+empirical

The bible is very dodgy in the sense that it lacks empirical data and to provide us with some at this point would be bogus because the bible has never had any. So I better not see any future editions of the bible coming out with exact dates, doecumentations and literal interpretations of events which ocurred in the past and we have no evidence of other than the book which has been edited by man.

At 10/17/06 06:04 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/17/06 04:59 PM, MonstroMan wrote:

At 10/16/06 10:31 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 08:22 PM, Werewolf91 wrote:

At 10/16/06 06:41 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote:

At 10/16/06 05:57 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/16/06 01:52 AM, JoS wrote:

Prove that your religion has power over the law, and then we can ban gay marriage.

Very well.

http://mb-soft.com/b..eve/txw/bibleaut.htm

The Bible says God has authority. But not everyone believes that what the Bible says. As long as there are many religions, there ar emany different beliefs and not every religion uses the same Bible. Law and religion are two different things. Religion reflects your personal beliefs while law says what is acceptable and what is not.

What about people who aren't Christians?

They are the ones who desperately need to hear God's Word, and learn of the beautiful blessing Christ's sacrifice was for us!

Because of course, everybody in the world should become the same religion as you.
</sarcasm>

What about people who don't believe homosexuality is an abomination?

What about people who don't believe in gravity? What about people who don't believe in oxygen? Whether they believe or not does not shake the Truth!

Truth? You're only saying this because you believe it to be the truth, just as they believe it not to be the truth. Your religion is your personal beliefs. Your religion is not the only religion in the world, so simply saying it is the only true one is pointless.

And what about people who are homosexual themselves, who can't do a thing to change it?

That is still a matter of debate as I still have a strong feeling (based on personal observation) that it may be nurture, not nature.

According to actual homosexuals, they do not have a choice. They simply are, and how can someone be wrong by simply being what they are?

You can't make the law change because your religion says so.

Actually it is wrong that it has not been made this way originally. It needs correction and this is it.

This really annoys me. As I've said before, your religion is not the only religion, so why should it be the only one that laws are based on? If we were to change the laws according to religion (Which i have a strong feeling will NEVER happen), why would yours be the one chosen?

And besides, who would be hurt by gay people getting married?

Who would be hurt if I suddenly started worshiping Moloch or some false god? Who would be hurt if I suddenly became a homosexual? Who would be hurt if I began coveting my neighbor's wife? I WOULD! It may not affect us, but it is selfish not to tend to the needs of those who need spiritual help. God clearly states it is an abomination and to simply allow them to continue on their path to Hell without at least warning them or trying to stop them would not be very compassionate would it?

No, it certainly wouldn't, but you need to look at it from an actual gay man's perspective. Is it fair to destroy their lovelife because of religion? It's especially not fair to those who do not believe in God, or Heaven, or Hell. Think of yourself in this situation: You are a homosexual atheist thinking of getting married, when suddenly, gay marriage is abolished because of a group of religious fanatics. What would you do then? Please, answer this question directly. Do not say something such as "I wouldn't be an atheist".

Who would it be taking away from?

Themselves, spiritually. Its like saying why can't a mentally handicapped person continue to operate in the real world, outside an asylum. NonChristians need help! Not mentally, but spiritually. If a homosexual was a Christian and honestly tried to fight his lust whist repenting for his slip ups, he is fine! God loves the homosexual (the person) but not his sin. Just as he loves all of us, but not our sins. However, most homosexuals seem intent on defiling the meaning of marraige which tells me that particular social group is still in need of help.

"Non-Christians need help"? I'm starting to get tired of telling you that your religion is not the only one. Just because someone does not believe the same things as you does NOT mean that they are in need of help. I don't disrespect someone because of their religion, but there are 2 ways of crossing the line that really make me mad. One would be being intolerant of other religions. 3 times in this post I've told you that your religion is not the only one, and "Non-Christians need help" REALLY boiled my blood. Another is prejudice. Mainly prejudice towards homosexuals, but this is what my entire post is about.

And don't say "God" and start telling me "the Bible says this" and "the Bible says that".

I was not going to say God. However, telling me not to quote Scripture in a moral debate is like telling an evolutionist to quit citing scientific data...it makes no sense!

Scientific data is scientific data. Evidence cannot be argued with. The truth of th Bible, however, is debatable. Once again, your religion is not the only religion, so saying the Bible is true will get you nowhere. There are many religions in the world, all of which with their own beliefs, so quoting one specific one and passing it off as truth is pointless.

The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination so we should not allow it to run rampant. It is an afront to the True Word of God!

Prove that your religion has power over the law, and then we can ban gay marriage. What about people who aren't Christians? What about people who don't believe homosexuality is an abomination? And what about people who are homosexual themselves, who can't do a thing to change it? You can't make the law change because your religion says so. And besides, who would be hurt by gay people getting married? Who would it be taking away from? And don't say "God" and start telling me "the Bible says this" and "the Bible says that".

If gays want to be a couple i couldnt care less, But the law says religious freedom and when one religion is against gays and a gay person hires a lawyer to force that religion to perform one of its most holy ceremonys for them then not only is that not religious freedom but insted of religion condredicting law its law contredicting religion, and thats just as bad. Gays are getting cocky, they think because they can they should, if they become gay why would they want to be unified by a religion that hates them, not being gay i can see no reason, its just like if you hang out with some people who dislike you i dont see a point to it other than to say "screw you ill do whatever i feel like" to the church. What the fuck did the church do to you. Now saying homosexuality is an abomination could count as something but they arent killing gays anymore. So if there are any gays in the audiance who would like to tell me what the fuck is the point to getting married christian id be glad to hear it.

At 10/18/06 05:33 PM, Boarean wrote:

If gays want to be a couple i couldnt care less, But the law says religious freedom and when one religion is against gays and a gay person hires a lawyer to force that religion to perform one of its most holy ceremonys for them then not only is that not religious freedom but insted of religion condredicting law its law contredicting religion, and thats just as bad.

You're very wrong right now.
Gays are fighting for a court, non-secular, marriage. And even then... there are churches who marry gays and yet the state doesn't even recognize those. Gays are forcing a church or a synagogue or a temple to marry queers. They're forcing the government to do a duty that the government was suppose to do!

Whose in the wrong now?
The religious is this time trying to influence the state, and not the other way around as you once believed.

Gays are getting cocky, they think because they can they should, if they become gay why would they want to be unified by a religion that hates them, not being gay i can see no reason, its just like if you hang out with some people who dislike you i dont see a point to it other than to say "screw you ill do whatever i feel like" to the church. What the fuck did the church do to you. Now saying homosexuality is an abomination could count as something but they arent killing gays anymore. So if there are any gays in the audiance who would like to tell me what the fuck is the point to getting married christian id be glad to hear it.

Dude, marriage would help me manage my life normally. Gays also have families, children, and responsibility. They pay taxes and do other things like heterosexuals. Except that, should I fall out with my "husband" (could be said only in name) and then what will happen to us when we need to seperate our things? We have no legal precedent in court such as other married couples. And so something that should take a while to break up, gays have to battle it out for years. Imagine how hellish it is for divorced couples to fight for custody, to obtain the fairest possible share to wealth. It's twice as worse for people who never married but "lived together." It get much more complicated when the couple are same sex.

This isn't about a bunch of queers who are in your face saying, "We want equality!" And all that Liberal shit. Well... of course it's about equality, but the motives isn't strictly for that. It's about giving people the ability to function in society on the same level to others. The ability to not to worry what would happen to your kids because you are neither biologically nor linially related to them... the ability to have your decisions and last reasons to have legal weight so that you could leave your spouse inheritance and to not worry some homophobic family member will get a lawyer to overturn that decision.

If only you knew how important a legal marriage is. It seems you view it lightly, only see the wedding dress and kissing aspect of it. There is something more to the ceremony. Gays for a long time have take extra steps, which should be unnecessary for all people, to ensure their lives are okay.

When I was going to be a father, I had to speak to lawyers because I wanted to be sure that my husband had legal custody to child that was only biologically related to me. I had legal rights and custody but only because the kid was my blood. But what about my husband? Wasn't he a father too? If we were legally married, then we wouldn't need to take extra steps. I wouldn't have to worry, I would have just filled his name on a paper at the birth... and that would be that.

I'm guessing that fli himself is gay, considering he says he is male in his profile and mentions his husband. Am I right? Just making sure.

When you look at this issue from a non-religious standpoint, it seems pretty unfair to ban gay marriage. I don't believe homosexuality to be an abomination of any kind. I think this whole issue is no big deal, or at least should be no big deal.