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At 10/29/06 12:57 AM, jlwelch wrote:

The Word of God is the Word of God and there is nothing more important than one's Eternal Salvation!

'The word of god is the word of god', is the word of man. Your faith is misplaced in that you're faithful to the teachings of another mans view of the universe, and his view of god. Not god directly. You'd like to think that you follow god, but,sadly, you just follow the church.

'The bible is the word of god'-According to whom? Until i hear god say 'This is my will', "faith" is just being manipulated. If i get sent to hell for not trusting someone who has their own agenda, god can go fuck himself, I'll join the leigons f hell.

At 10/29/06 12:56 AM, ThunderboltLegion wrote: Can you? Our minds are three dimensional, we are not capable of picturing a fouth spacial dimension as we can a three dimensional space. With that said, I do understand a fourth spacial dimension, just not through mathmatics.

No, you don't. Without the mathematics there is no possible way you can understand dimensions beyond the ones we normally percieve. It's like listening to Mozart and claiming to understand it because you can hum the melody, even though you can't read music.

Anyway, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction of testing my intelligence, nice try though :)

It's really quite simple. I mean, if you can't explain what happens in this thought experiment, how can I take seriously your claim to understand how light and time are effected by gravity? If you can explain it, I will leave you alone about "understanding" theoretical physics, k?

It's a bargain at twice the price.

Everyone why dont we wait 4 million years and see if any animals have changed/evolved. I bet my left shoe they have.

true

Right now I am foaming at the mouth in anger at you. I will not become mean or violent but i must say that you are very very wrong. Man did evolve from monkey, the creation of the universe did not happen bye the hand of god, whom by the way does not exist. Just to prove something to you that god is not omnipitant I have a riddle for you. And because I think you might not know what that means, omnipitant means "can do everything". Can god create a rock that he himself cannot pick up? If he can, than the thing he can't do is pick up the rock. If he can't, the thing he can't do is make the rock. I know you didn't say that, but i know that if you do not believe in evolution you think that god is all knowing and like super man. Religion is the opiot of the masses, and you're no different. Did you know the world's largest acount of cannibalism is the Christian cruesades? I am very sorry if anything of what I said offended anyone, but this is all fact that you must realize. Deal with it.

At 10/29/06 02:12 PM, thejvman wrote: Can god create a rock that he himself cannot pick up? If he can, than the thing he can't do is pick up the rock. If he can't, the thing he can't do is make the rock.

I must hand it to you, that is one superb riddle.

At 10/29/06 01:12 PM, scottish-cunt wrote: Everyone why dont we wait 4 million years and see if any animals have changed/evolved. I bet my left shoe they have.

The thing is, we don't need to wait 4 million years to see if anything has evolved. It is happening right in front of us all the time. Just look at the cold virus(es) (or acute viral nasopharyngitis for you intellects). I'll use an example to explain my point more coherently.

Lets say there is a boy called Tom. He has just recently come down with the common cold, sure he doesn't fel too good but he knows that it'll pass in about three to five days due to his immune system creating antibodies to fight it. Before the three to five days time it takes him to get rid of it his friend, John, catches it from him. By the time Tom has gotten over the cold John then inevitably passes it back to Tom who then has it again. However, if evolution didn't exist Tom would not be able to get it again as his antibodies would easily fight it off. The thing is, the virus evolved in order to be able to fight more efficiently against certain antibodies.

Another example comes from how, at least here in Britain, antibiotics are becomming useful. This is happening because some people who are suffering from an infecting organism do not finish their full course of antibiotics and thus the organism gains defences against that specific antibiotic through evolution.

This again is similar to the development of some pesticide resistant insects.

If, however, some of you strange overly religious types who refuse to accept evolution don't realise now that it exists and it happening right in front of you thwen, i'm sorry to say, there is no hope in Mankind.

At 10/29/06 02:12 PM, thejvman wrote: Man did evolve from monkey

Sorry dumbass, it looks like you're the ignorant one when it comes to the subject of evolution.

At 10/29/06 02:20 AM, ImmoralLibertarian wrote:

At 10/29/06 12:57 AM, jlwelch wrote:

Now I’m absolutely positive you’re a troll…

I am nothing of the sort.

You don’t even know you’re own religious dogma.

God made man on the sixth day, then rested on the seventh according to the bible you jackass.

Sorry, my mistake. You are correct. But that doesn't change the fact that God created the Universe. With your correction we are 5 days younger than the Universe.

At 10/29/06 02:12 PM, thejvman wrote: Right now I am foaming at the mouth in anger at you. I will not become mean or violent but i must say that you are very very wrong. Man did evolve from monkey, the creation of the universe did not happen bye the hand of god, whom by the way does not exist.

That is by far the most horrible and intolerable thing anyone can possibly say. Listen to yourself. You are blasphemous, you are denying the existance of our One True God and you are putting your faith into a theory that Noble Prize winners belive will be the biggest joke of our time (see Way of the Master Link - Evolution posted above). You are one of the lost that we must reach out to and your anger is a typical symptom of such a thing.

:Just to prove something to you that god is not omnipitant I have a riddle for you. And because I think you might not know what that means, omnipitant means "can do everything". Can god create a rock that he himself cannot pick up? If he can, than the thing he can't do is pick up the rock. If he can't, the thing he can't do is make the rock. I know you didn't say that, but i know that if you do not believe in evolution you think that god is all knowing and like super man. Religion is the opiot of the masses, and you're no different. Did you know the world's largest acount of cannibalism is the Christian cruesades? I am very sorry if anything of what I said offended anyone, but this is all fact that you must realize. Deal with it.

God is omnipotent and can do anything. The riddle you proposed is outside the realm of human understanding and is something you can ask God after you have been spiritually rehabilitated and saved. False religion may be the opiot of the masses, but its darker purpose is to lead the flock away from Christ. Satan is indeed on of the most subtle influences of the Earth. I insist that you begin to reason with yourself and review my previous sources. If you click on the links, all you need is "eyes that can see and a brain that works", as the WOTM guys say, to see that what I am saying is true.

So I've gotten a lot of people that tell me, "Evolution is a sin and it's concept is absolute shit." In my area, evolution IS the devil. But I've thought of something that may change your mind.

Let's look at race. The more we look at the differences of race, the more we find out how similar we are. Scientists have said that race has depended on genetics and sunlight.

So evolution says that we evolve from past species and that we adapt to the environment arounds us. Keep this in mind for the idea that might blow you away.

People try to claim that we are descendants of Adam and Eve, but if you know the Bible you know that the correct term should be we are descendants of Noah (because God flooded the earth and the only people left where the animals on the ark and his family). From an athiests point of view, how could all these different races spawn from one family? Are you telling me tha Noah's family has Chinese, mexican, black, and white looking people? But what if his family spread across the continent and EVOLVED through time and adapted to their environment (like the Africans that adapted to the desert weather and that scientists say causes their blacks skin)?

And what about the arc? There's no way that Noah could fit all those animals on an arc? But what if he took one species of bird and that one species evolved into the millions of ones we have now?

At 10/29/06 01:12 PM, scottish-cunt wrote: Everyone why dont we wait 4 million years and see if any animals have changed/evolved. I bet my left shoe they have.

You don't even have to wait that long. sientists alredy discoves genetic evoluation with fishes in the nothsea.
There fishe ged adult sooner stay smaller and reproduce faster. So acualy a smaller kind of fishes had evaluated, (this is a forced evoluation becouse of to mutch fish arez begin taken)

At 10/29/06 02:40 PM, jlwelch wrote: God is omnipotent and can do anything.

Omnipotent eh? Just take a quick look in your bible.. Go to Judges 1:19
I'll tell you what it says..

"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." (KJV)

False religion may be the opiot of the masses, but its darker purpose is to lead the flock away from Christ.

False religon? What are the false religions? Personally Christianity is, afterall, a false religion as you are effectively worshipping a lord who was directly inspired by other gods. Jesus' life is the same as that of the gods Dionysus, Osiris and many more.
Lets use Dionysus as an example. Dionysus was born the son of a mortal woman and the son of God (Zeus) the mortal woman stayed a virgin. Dionysus et al, like Jesus, were born in humble locations such as barns caves etc. They all had similar miracles such as feeding a multitude of people, raising of the dead... Things to do with wine (in fact Dionysus was the god of wine). All goda also died directly because of society and they all were ressurected etc.. (I'd write more about it but i've been drinking a bit too much)

Satan is indeed on of the most subtle influences of the Earth. I insist that you begin to reason with yourself and review my previous sources. If you click on the links, all you need is "eyes that can see and a brain that works", as the WOTM guys say, to see that what I am saying is true.

In other words we need to be brainwashed so we believe what you tell us is true yet it doesn't ever change whether or not it actually is true.

Neoptalumus, the only brainwashing is that which is done by the false religions. A false religion is any that does not embrace Christ as Savior and recognize the Holy Trinity as the ONE TRUE GOD! This being said, it is most blasphemous to compare the sanctity of Christ to other pagan dieties. I know that this society is in the middle of a moral meltdown but honestly...have some self respect and be aware of the sacred. Such depraivity is simply unspeakable!

At 10/29/06 03:11 PM, jlwelch wrote: Neoptalumus, the only brainwashing is that which is done by the false religions. A false religion is any that does not embrace Christ as Savior and recognize the Holy Trinity as the ONE TRUE GOD! This being said, it is most blasphemous to compare the sanctity of Christ to other pagan dieties. I know that this society is in the middle of a moral meltdown but honestly...have some self respect and be aware of the sacred. Such depraivity is simply unspeakable!

Do you know how your religion preaches tolerance and respect for your fellow human beings... Well, how can you respect others by trying to make them fall sway of a false religion such as christianity? Surely you can't be as much of a zealot as you appear to be.

Anyway, wh yshould i give a damn about what your opinions are upon the matter of a supreme being and religion. Afterall you suffer from ignorance to actually believe your religion is the only path to enlightenment, eudamonia, salvation etc.

As for the "trinity" surely the trinity of "god" implies that your religion is not a proper monotheistic religion and thus, by your own dogma, you are a pagan and therefore you're going to go to hell.

At 10/29/06 03:16 PM, neoptolemus wrote:

At 10/29/06 03:11 PM, jlwelch wrote:

Do you know how your religion preaches tolerance and respect for your fellow human beings... Well, how can you respect others by trying to make them fall sway of a false religion such as christianity? Surely you can't be as much of a zealot as you appear to be.

I truely hope you pull yourself away from such depraivity before you die, or the Lake of Fire will be your fate. I would not post and evangelize so frequently if it were not true. Save yourself, you are obviously just trying to anger me as I doubt if anyone is so depraved as to actually believe what you just posted.

Anyway, wh yshould i give a damn about what your opinions are upon the matter of a supreme being and religion. Afterall you suffer from ignorance to actually believe your religion is the only path to enlightenment, eudamonia, salvation etc.

Actually it is the Biblical Truth and I have worked hard to save as many people as possible. Jesus is the Way and the Truth and the Life, no one speaks to the Father except through Him!

As for the "trinity" surely the trinity of "god" implies that your religion is not a proper monotheistic religion and thus, by your own dogma, you are a pagan and therefore you're going to go to hell.

The Holy Trinity is One God. Such a thing is another example of that which human minds cannot fathom, but again your depraivity is astonishing. I beg of you to repent before it is too late! Please.

At 10/29/06 03:28 PM, jlwelch wrote: I truely hope you pull yourself away from such depraivity before you die, or the Lake of Fire will be your fate. I would not post and evangelize so frequently if it were not true. Save yourself, you are obviously just trying to anger me as I doubt if anyone is so depraved as to actually believe what you just posted.

I do believe that Christianity preaches respect and tolerance for your fellow Man.
Why must it be that Christianity is th e"right" religion? Why can't you be more like a Buddhist or a Sikh who believe that all religons are paths towards "god" or enlightenment?

Actually it is the Biblical Truth and I have worked hard to save as many people as possible. Jesus is the Way and the Truth and the Life, no one speaks to the Father except through Him!

Didn't Jesus preach agape which is unconditional love for your fellow man? Unconditional love wouldn't be to pass judgement upon another based upon ones belief.

The Holy Trinity is One God. Then would that make hinduism polytheism or monotheism?

At 10/29/06 03:36 PM, neoptolemus wrote:

At 10/29/06 03:28 PM, jlwelch wrote:

:I do believe that Christianity preaches respect and tolerance for your fellow Man.

Why must it be that Christianity is th e"right" religion? Why can't you be more like a Buddhist or a Sikh who believe that all religons are paths towards "god" or enlightenment?

Christianity does preach respect and tolerance for your fellow Man, and that is why I seek to do my fellow man a service by attempting to save the lost. If a blind man walks towards a thousand foot cliff do I say "Well there are many ways to town" or do I frantically attempt to warn the stubborn old man of what his fate will be if he continues down his path? Which would be the greater service? And I would not choose to be "more like" such false religions as I know Jesus is the only way for our unclean souls to reach eternal salvation.

Didn't Jesus preach agape which is unconditional love for your fellow man? Unconditional love wouldn't be to pass judgement upon another based upon ones belief.

See above post. It would be cold and uncaring to let my fellow man blindly walk towards the cliff of Buddhism or whatever other false relgion you may have in mind.

The Holy Trinity is One God. Then would that make hinduism polytheism or monotheism?

I wouldn't know, I don't pay attention to such false religions.

At 10/29/06 12:57 AM, jlwelch wrote: but God made them on the seventh day.

it is my honour to inform you that nothing was created on the seventh day.

At 10/29/06 03:42 PM, jlwelch wrote: I wouldn't know, I don't pay attention to such false religions.

Then how are you sure your religion is the right one if you have not studied other beliefs.. Surely that is illogical and thus goes against Mankinds rational nature which, according to you, is a construct of god.. Therefore, you are not using the tools "god" gave you.

I personally have studied many religions and am very interesting in several. The problem is that while the concept of a god does appeal to me the whole dogmatic approach to it all just doesn't appeal to me as all biblical scriptures are written by man and thus are not actually valid.

At 10/29/06 03:51 PM, neoptolemus wrote:

At 10/29/06 03:42 PM, jlwelch wrote: I wouldn't know, I don't pay attention to such false religions.

Then how are you sure your religion is the right one if you have not studied other beliefs.. Surely that is illogical and thus goes against Mankinds rational nature which, according to you, is a construct of god.. Therefore, you are not using the tools "god" gave you.

A scientist does not need to research voodoo and other forms of nonsense before publishing a paper, and I do not need to read ample amounts of Satanic Lore to realize that Jesus is Lord!

I personally have studied many religions and am very interesting in several. The problem is that while the concept of a god does appeal to me the whole dogmatic approach to it all just doesn't appeal to me as all biblical scriptures are written by man and thus are not actually valid.

You are terribly mistaken about the validity of Biblical Scriptures. HOWEVER, if you accept Christ as your Savior and have faith in the One True God the Bible clearly states you will be saved by your faith. Even if I fail to witness to you the Truth of God's Word, if I can even witness to you that far I will rest easily.

you should really reread your scripture if you wanna continue being a Bible troll.

At 10/29/06 04:06 PM, jlwelch wrote:

A scientist does not need to research voodoo and other forms of nonsense before publishing a paper, and I do not need to read ample amounts of Satanic Lore to realize that Jesus is Lord!

Actually, there are many social-sciences which include research into other cultures beliefs such as voodoo.

You are terribly mistaken about the validity of Biblical Scriptures. HOWEVER, if you accept Christ as your Savior and have faith in the One True God the Bible clearly states you will be saved by your faith. Even if I fail to witness to you the Truth of God's Word, if I can even witness to you that far I will rest easily.

Will you just please stop trying to convert me, no matter what you say i'll stick to my views that one can never know whether or not god(s) does exist and it is ignorant to assume that it is so.

At 10/29/06 12:57 AM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/28/06 11:08 PM, Horrigan wrote:

Have you witnessed your god do everything? Did you get a souvenir or something to show it?

Two words: "Bible" and "Faith".

The Bible says so and you believe it unquestioningly. We know that.

Not you or your sources have provided any solid evidence to prove your claims. You have done this again and again, and because of this, every one of your posts is more incredible than the last.

I am going to assume you have not even reviewed any of my sources because if you did you would be singing a different tune.

Oh, but I have. The first, "Is There A God?" by David J. Stewart, author of "God is Amazing", an essay you previously posted a link to. This states humans are incapable of studying the universe. The second, "What the Bible Says is So" by Pastor Roy Thompson states the different ways each type of non-Christian is full of shit.

Don't think I stopped 'listening' the moment I saw "God" or "Bible". I doubted the part about the moons of Saturn in "God is Amazing", a point on why humans need to obey the Bible because we are incapable of doing otherwise. I thought David was stretching the truth to suit his own purposes. I investigated and found that part to be right (the discovery dates, that is), and I admitted my view was wrong.

1. I shall provide a source <A>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man<A>

2. I never mentioned hydrogen bombs.

The person who originally posted on this aspect stated H bombs were used and I pointed out that they were U-235 enriched. When you stated both were used, I assumed you meant both U-235 and Hydrogen but now that you stated you never mentioned hydrogen bombs I am curious as to what you meant by "both".

For example: "I pointed out that THEY were U-235 enriched." Little Boy held U-235 and Fat Man held Plutonium. They here both fission devices however.

At 10/29/06 02:42 PM, MegalomaniacVirus wrote: So I've gotten a lot of people that tell me, "Evolution is a sin and it's concept is absolute shit." In my area, evolution IS the devil. But I've thought of something that may change your mind.

Let's look at race. The more we look at the differences of race, the more we find out how similar we are. Scientists have said that race has depended on genetics and sunlight.

So evolution says that we evolve from past species and that we adapt to the environment arounds us. Keep this in mind for the idea that might blow you away.

People try to claim that we are descendants of Adam and Eve, but if you know the Bible you know that the correct term should be we are descendants of Noah (because God flooded the earth and the only people left where the animals on the ark and his family). From an athiests point of view, how could all these different races spawn from one family? Are you telling me tha Noah's family has Chinese, mexican, black, and white looking people? But what if his family spread across the continent and EVOLVED through time and adapted to their environment (like the Africans that adapted to the desert weather and that scientists say causes their blacks skin)?

Noah, his wife, their three sons, and their sons' wives boarded the arc, right? There are 9 different human racial groups(each containing their own diversity), right? At the very MOST, Noah and his family would only have been able to produce offspring of 4, count 'em, FOUR hybrid-races. To make these 4 races, Noah, his wife, and their sons' wives would all have had to have been a different race, which was very unlikely because of extremely limited travel (I exclude the sons, as they are in between their parents' races). Also, Noah would need to produce a daughter with his wife, for their sons to impregnate. Noah would also have had to impregnate all of his son's wives with a boy and a girl, and those boys and girls would have had to have produce more offspring with each other. This story provides no time for evolution of new races.

At 10/29/06 02:32 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/29/06 02:20 AM, ImmoralLibertarian wrote:

At 10/29/06 12:57 AM, jlwelch wrote:

Now I’m absolutely positive you’re a troll…

I am nothing of the sort.

Jwelch, you absolutely are a troll.

Troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
Dictionary

I can't quite figure out why so many people are responding to your obvious baiting.

Cmon, people, you should know not to feed the troll.

At 10/29/06 04:28 PM, Draconias wrote:

I can't quite figure out why so many people are responding to your obvious baiting.

Cmon, people, you should know not to feed the troll.

Well, i've been drinking and i like discussions when i'm drunk, i'll think twice about it in the future Sir.

At 10/29/06 04:28 PM, Draconias wrote:

At 10/29/06 02:32 PM, jlwelch wrote:

At 10/29/06 02:20 AM, ImmoralLibertarian wrote:

At 10/29/06 12:57 AM, jlwelch wrote:

Jwelch, you absolutely are a troll.

Troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
Dictionary

Your definition has nothing to do with what I am doing. I do not troll the forums, I use them as an opportunity to witness when I am at home. I am diligently and feverishly trying to save the souls of the lost before it is all too late. You must see this. Actually, I could care less how you think of me personally, so long as you take my messages to heart that is all I care about.

I can't quite figure out why so many people are responding to your obvious baiting.

Cmon, people, you should know not to feed the troll.

I do not bait. I stimulate intellectual discussion that, if successful, leads to soulwinning for Christ and a return of the lost to the flock.

At 10/29/06 04:28 PM, Draconias wrote: Cmon, people, you should know not to feed the troll.

Hah, yeah, but I actually think he's being serious. I have met numerous people like him.

At 10/29/06 05:29 PM, Peter-II wrote: Hah, yeah, but I actually think he's being serious. I have met numerous people like him.

Really? Fuck, us her ein Britian don't meet people like that very often if ever. At the most we have some random person shouting in the city centre about how we're all going to hell until they get abused by chavs.

At 10/29/06 05:33 PM, neoptolemus wrote: Really? Fuck, us her ein Britian don't meet people like that very often if ever. At the most we have some random person shouting in the city centre about how we're all going to hell until they get abused by chavs.

I live in the UK as well.

So, are you lucky, or am I just unlucky?

At 10/29/06 05:35 PM, Peter-II wrote: I live in the UK as well.

So, are you lucky, or am I just unlucky?

Well, i'd go i'm more unlucky as i live in Hull