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Jackho
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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 14:21:02 Reply

At 4/13/14 01:55 PM, DM692 wrote: Cowboy Bebop (7.5)
Elfen Lied (10 WOW)

I fear something has gone terribly wrong here


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DM692
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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 14:24:02 Reply

At 4/13/14 02:21 PM, Jackho wrote:
At 4/13/14 01:55 PM, DM692 wrote: Cowboy Bebop (7.5)
Elfen Lied (10 WOW)
I fear something has gone terribly wrong here

If you figure it's worth the time, I can explain that a little better. Can you tell me what you think is wrong with my opinion?

Also, the fact that I rated Elfen Lied so highly may have something to do with the fact that I read the manga after I finished the anime and might be looking at it more fondly because of that. I really liked the manga.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 15:15:18 Reply

At 4/12/14 01:01 PM, Vinnyy wrote: I'm currently watching Death Note. The story line and character development are fantastic.

fantastic, yes!
definitely one of my favorites!

there is so much i love about death note; you're on to a good one there vinnyy my man!


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 15:56:45 Reply

At 4/13/14 02:24 PM, DM692 wrote:

If you figure it's worth the time, I can explain that a little better. Can you tell me what you think is wrong with my opinion?

Rating Elfen Lied over Cowboy Bebop isn't going to be something people will tolerate.

Also, the fact that I rated Elfen Lied so highly may have something to do with the fact that I read the manga after I finished the anime and might be looking at it more fondly because of that. I really liked the manga.

There's a difference between the anime and the manga, you can't really put the two together when the anime diverge from the manga storyline.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 16:07:27 Reply

At 4/13/14 03:56 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote: Rating Elfen Lied over Cowboy Bebop isn't going to be something people will tolerate.

So I'll explain my opinion if I can get a reason why people don't like it, but I haven't yet.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 16:11:54 Reply

At 4/13/14 03:56 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote: There's a difference between the anime and the manga, you can't really put the two together when the anime diverge from the manga storyline.

Thinking about this point a little more, I'd probably rate the anime closer to a 9, but I still definitely enjoyed it the most out of any I've watched.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 16:43:58 Reply

Elfen Lied if pretentious, edgy, entry level trash

Into the wastebasket receptacle it is deposited!

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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 16:50:14 Reply

0/3 replies so far have given me any objective problems with Elfen Lied, I've just been told that my opinion is wrong with nothing to back that claim. I'm not sure I'm as interested in posting here as I previously was.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 18:28:35 Reply

@DM692

i have a slight objection in that i would rate cowboy bebop 8.5 or 9 even, though i want to know more about elfen lied. a friend of mine has a dvd set and i may want to check it out. what can you tell me about it: storywise, action, all that good stuff.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 18:47:37 Reply

At 4/13/14 06:28 PM, FRAYDO wrote: i have a slight objection in that i would rate cowboy bebop 8.5 or 9 even, though i want to know more about elfen lied. a friend of mine has a dvd set and i may want to check it out. what can you tell me about it: storywise, action, all that good stuff.

The first two episodes have a ton of nudity and gore (not in a senseless way, mind you), so if you do get into it at least wait until the 3rd or 4th episode before you form any lasting opinions.

In this universe, there are creatures known as diclonius (diclonii?) that are bred in captivity. They have invisible arms they control that give them pseudo-telekinetic powers, and are seen as replacements for inferior humans. All diclonius have an inner voice that tells them they must kill humans to make a place for themselves in this world. The story follows Lucy: the only known female diclonius able to reproduce. In the first episode, she is seen escaping from the facility used to research them, but events that take place cause her to develop a split personality.

These personalities are Lucy and Nyuu. Nyuu has child-like intelligence, but Lucy is invoked whenever Nyuu is in substantial danger. A boy who recently moved into an unused restaurant finds Nyuu on a beach, takes her in, and tries to figure out her origin.

Throughout the series, the organization tries to recapture Lucy through various means. To her, life becomes a balancing act of not going back to the torturous facility, but keeping her adopted family safe.

That's pretty much the story, as far as action goes, it pulls it off rather nicely. Diclonius' arms (Vectors) are shown to have incredible power, being able to seemingly pick and choose what they touch. For example, one subtle method they use to kill is to stick a vector into your brain and touch some nerve to kill you. This is contrasted by the sheer destructive power the Diclonius possess, with the ability to rip apart anything their vectors are able to reach.

As far as inter-character relations go, I believe this is the reason I liked the show so much. Everyone has a clear backstory, and throughout the show, they're all explained and connected in crazy ways you wouldn't even think of the first time you see the characters.

I'm sure this is long winded enough by now, so the bottom line is that if you get the chance to borrow the DVD set, I'd highly recommend it.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 18:53:45 Reply

At 4/13/14 06:47 PM, DM692 wrote: the bottom line is that if you get the chance to borrow the DVD set, I'd highly recommend it.

will do! sounds amazing, ima definitely have to get to watching elfen lied
thanks, DM my man!


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 19:04:06 Reply

I like ghost in the shells.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-13 20:05:58 Reply

At 4/13/14 07:04 PM, Shadaw wrote: I like ghost in the shells.

Ghost in the Shell is a classic.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 01:38:51 Reply

Just finished watching "Gundam F91" and I can see why people have problems with this movie. It should have been a series and yes, as a series it wouldn't have been as well animated but with the story being crammed into two hours, anyone can tell how much materials were skipped, even Stevie Wonder could have seen it.

It's a shame, it has so much potential and it would have made a really good series.

I mean, when did Anna Marie defected? How did Seabook and his injured dad escaped from the car crash? You can tell at what point in which the scene could have been a good spot for the episode to end.

Not to mention the buildup being skipped when Seabook decides to pilot the F91.

Even Amuro's first time had more buildup than that!

I liked the movie but it could have been much better as a series, what could have been thanks to the production issue.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 14:15:29 Reply

At 4/14/14 01:55 PM, darkjam wrote: So Attack on Titan season 2 is coming this July, anyone else read the manga, or are you going to watch it?

Looking forward to this. I heard about Attack on Titan from a buddy, so I just watched the anime. I was considering starting the manga, but that same day my buddy told me that a 2nd season of the anime was slated for production, so I decided to hold off.

I'm pretty interested in this, because the last season ended off at a really shitty place.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 14:38:22 Reply

At 4/14/14 02:15 PM, DM692 wrote: I'm pretty interested in this, because the last season ended off at a really shitty place.

I thought it ended well, seeing that titan was pretty interesting, until I read the manga that is.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 14:48:00 Reply

At 4/14/14 02:38 PM, darkjam wrote:
At 4/14/14 02:15 PM, DM692 wrote: I'm pretty interested in this, because the last season ended off at a really shitty place.
I thought it ended well, seeing that titan was pretty interesting, until I read the manga that is.

TEETAHNS ARE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 15:02:25 Reply

Date A Live Season 2 has started; just in case you didn't know.
hhnnnnngg


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 16:03:50 Reply

At 4/14/14 02:48 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote: TEETAHNS ARE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SPOILER ALERT FOR ATTACK ON TITANThat is not 100% known yet, all we know is that the Beast Titan can turn people into titans, but whether they started as humans is unknown.

step up bitch

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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 21:45:44 Reply

@DM692

It's not worth arguing over but Elfen Lied is (in my eyes) the worst anime I've ever sat through. I've never understood people's enthusiasm toward Elfen and it's characters when everything about it is so blatantly shallow. It tries so hard to be messed up that by the halfway point they have to cut a little girl's limbs off and beat a puppy to death to attempt to get a rise out of the viewer. It barely even starts before it stops being horror and veers toward comical. It's not relatable, it's edgy for the sake of being edgy and no amount of blood pinatas or nudity can make up for such a severe lack of talent or make it stand up as a deep or mature anime alongside the likes of Evangelion or the work of Satoshi Kon (or Ghost in the Shell, I guess).

This is just how I felt about it though, I wont forcefully try to convince you that something is shallow or soulless if it meant something to you. With that list I can see you're fairly inexperienced with anime (and perhaps to serious or "deep" art in general?) so maybe you'll see why Elfen Lied fails to impress most people once you have a better reference point. In my experience Elfen is beloved exclusively by young teens who simply have nothing that's actually good to compare it to. Hence why "entry-level" gets thrown around so much an an insult, like that other guy helpfully demonstrated in this thread.

I don't want to keep bashing something you enjoy here, but try watching Neon Genesis Evangelion. A show that, imo, excels everywhere than Elfen Lied falls flat. They're prime targets for comparison (along with Mirai Nikki, which you might like as it's essentially this decade's Elfen Lied) for both being "messed up" with deep characters, but to me Eva is so far ahead of EL in every aspect. The majority of the hate for Elfen most likely just comes from people who saw Evangelion first, which came 9 years earlier and achieved so much more. I haven't read the manga and it may well be the story that the anime wanted to and should have been, but with how much I disliked the show I doubt it would change my mind.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 22:38:00 Reply

I personally don't like when people throw around words like 'deep' or 'deconstruction' or any of those other lofty words used to describe Evangelion. I liked Evangelion, probably not as much as most people but I really liked it's unconventional style and it's exceptional maturity for the medium. However, I always thought that 'deep' kind of writes a check the show doesn't really cash and is honestly better for it. To me 'deep', in the positive sense, means that the show says something about society or humanity or some other lofty idea and does so in a way that puts a unique perspective on the issue it's tackling while still being accurate and in the best of cases even objective.

I don't think Evangelion really tries to say anything about big subjects like humanity or society and is much more of an introspective show that wants the viewer to think about how they relate to the characters, specifically Shinji. Yeah, Shinji has his paternal issues but I don't think it's done in a way that's really all that pervasive or 'edgy'. Like Jackho said, shows like Elfen Lied try to equate being serious and mature with violence and pervasive material like rape or animal cruelty but they don't accomplish anything with it except shocking or appalling the viewer until eventually it's stops being about interactions between characters and how their experiences affect them and more about 'wow this f*cked up world sure is crazy aaaaaa'. Shows like that weaken the work shows like Evangelion do to advance the maturity of anime and move the medium forward. I'm not saying every show has to be introspective or mature; if you only watch what is deemed to be as such it'll just become exhausting after a point really, but shows like Elfen Lied manage to be not only immature but completely saturated in melodrama that makes it equally exhausting with none of the insight.

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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 22:38:44 Reply

I've never seen Elfen Lied, but rating Cowboy Bebop only 7.5 is wrong. As far as the worst anime I've sat down and watched, I think Mars of Destruction and Vampire Wars are up there (even worse than Psychic Wars). If we're talking about popular anime, though, I'd say Pokemon, Digimon or Inuyasha.

At 4/12/14 01:01 PM, Vinnyy wrote: I'm currently watching Death Note. The story line and character development are fantastic.

It might just become one of my favorite short anime series and I've watched quite a lot of anime over the past month alone. I've been on an anime streak lately.

I definitely wouldn't call that a short series. Maybe if most of the anime you watch are over a hundred episodes.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 23:22:20 Reply

At 4/13/14 01:55 PM, DM692 wrote: Based on my list and ratings, could anyone give me some other suggestions?

I missed this bit before. Going by that list, I think these might work for you.

Samurai Champloo
Darker Than Black
Baccano!
Blue Gender
Black Lagoon
Berserk (heads up, though, it doesn't really have an ending since the manga is still going)
Texhnolyze
Vampire Hunter D and Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust
Battle Angel
Ninja Scroll

Also, Gantz is kinda disappointing. It wasn't bad, but it could have been better. Plus, Kei Kurono is annoying. The live action movies are awesome, though, except for the shitty downer ending that wasn't even in the manga. Though, I guess some fans might also have an issue with them making all the characters older than in the manga. I wish a good staff would make a new anime series based on it. The anime didn't actually get to the end.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-14 23:55:48 Reply

I've noticed that someone voted Cowboy Bebop a 7.5 and Elfin Lied a 10. I get that people have different opinions and tastes, but CB is an anime classic, whereas Lied was more memorable for having a high degree of shock and awe more so than just being memorable. Take all of the "philosophical" stuff aside, {it seems like a lot of people are fond of putting quasi-philosophical stuff in anime that doesn't really fit or even need it at all} Elfin Lied is just another anime that has excessive blood and guts for pure shock value, more so than anything else, and while I think EL is a decent anime overall, there are many better shows that do blood and carnage better, along with having a good story as well. Really, it's just the first episode where the carnage is considered excessive, and then after that, it really just peters out into a rather shallow buddy-buddy show, in other words, it's a one-trick pony.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-15 00:01:35 Reply

At 4/14/14 11:55 PM, orangebomb wrote: I've noticed that someone voted Cowboy Bebop a 7.5 and Elfin Lied a 10. I get that people have different opinions and tastes, but CB is an anime classic, whereas Lied was more memorable for having a high degree of shock and awe more so than just being memorable. Take all of the "philosophical" stuff aside, {it seems like a lot of people are fond of putting quasi-philosophical stuff in anime that doesn't really fit or even need it at all} Elfin Lied is just another anime that has excessive blood and guts for pure shock value, more so than anything else, and while I think EL is a decent anime overall, there are many better shows that do blood and carnage better, along with having a good story as well. Really, it's just the first episode where the carnage is considered excessive, and then after that, it really just peters out into a rather shallow buddy-buddy show, in other words, it's a one-trick pony.

Not only that, the rating was based from the enjoyment he had from reading the manga. When it comes to rating an anime series, one can't do just that as the two are still different medias. Elfen Lied is one of the series where the anime starts to diverge from the manga storyline, never mind the fact that Nana was nerfed in the anime in her fight against Mariko.

Is there an end to Nana's suffering?

And to think people gave Victory Gundam tons of flack for overdoing the body count where Uso is essentially the proto-type and the inspiration for Shinji Ikari.

Uso's mom does gave a nice head though.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-15 00:38:07 Reply

At 4/14/14 09:45 PM, Jackho wrote: It tries so hard to be messed up that by the halfway point they have to cut a little girl's limbs off and beat a puppy to death to attempt to get a rise out of the viewer.

I'll admit that at some points there were definitely parts that felt they were put in to get a rise out of the viewer, but I personally found they made sense from a narrative point of view. For example, cutting off Nana's limbs set her up for being more vulnerable than the average diclonius under pressure (as she needed to use vectors to control her artificial ones). The puppy was Lucy's breaking point, she was fairly tolerant of humans until they senselessly killed her only friend.

With that list I can see you're fairly inexperienced with anime (and perhaps to serious or "deep" art in general?) so maybe you'll see why Elfen Lied fails to impress most people once you have a better reference point.

I will completely concede this point, until about 6 months ago my only experience with anime was Full Metal Panic!, so I've been trying to absorb as much as I can, and I feel like I'm starting to get into it and appreciate a lot more.

I don't want to keep bashing something you enjoy here, but try watching Neon Genesis Evangelion. A show that, imo, excels everywhere than Elfen Lied falls flat. They're prime targets for comparison (along with Mirai Nikki, which you might like as it's essentially this decade's Elfen Lied) for both being "messed up" with deep characters, but to me Eva is so far ahead of EL in every aspect.

Holy shit I can't believe I forgot to put Evangelion on my list, but I assure you I have seen it, I actually watched it right before Elfen Lied. From a story standpoint I liked the animes about equally, but EL felt like it was so much more open about using devices like nudity and gore (yeah yeah cheesy-ass reasons to like it) to tell the story. Evangelion's scenes with Rei and Shinji on a train are some of my favorite narrative scenes of any media I've consumed and their use of tech intrigued me deeply. However, as generic of a plot device as it is, I found that Kouta from EL uncovering his amnesia made for a really strong vehicle to move the story forward. Evangelion's big overarching "what are Angels/EVAs" was also really good, but not as interesting to me.

It may be because I haven't seen the movies (which I hear tie a lot of stuff together) or read the manga (which would be beneficial for obvious reasons), but I didn't enjoy Evangelion as much as Elfen Lied. Of course, that's not to say I didn't enjoy it because I did thoroughly, but for the reasons outlined above, I found EL to be more to my tastes. I'll also look into Mirai Nikki after I'm done Gantz or something Sense-Offender suggested.

@Sense-Offender

I have looked into Darker than Black, Blue Gender, and Berserk before, I'll have to keep these suggestions in mind. If I get tired of Gantz I'll probably switch onto either one of those or Mirai Nikki.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-15 02:10:39 Reply

At 4/15/14 12:38 AM, DM692 wrote: It may be because I haven't seen the movies (which I hear tie a lot of stuff together) or read the manga (which would be beneficial for obvious reasons)

The End of Evangelion is literally my favorite film. The new ones (rebuild) are good but mostly just eye-candy, throwing out most of the psychological stuff and each character's traumas for more fan service and action. It's basically Evangelion for people who didn't like Evangelion. Even so I still consider them to be very good by anime or general film standards, but they never live up to the original. 2.22 is especially awesome.

I wouldn't worry so much about reading the manga, as it was only created to generate publicity for the anime before release and it's made entirely by Sadmoto (the character designer) who seems to not fully understand Anno's characters yet doesn't make them his own for fear of annoying fans I guess. The final chapter is completely different to EoE's ending but other than that it's just the same story, somewhat compressed, with a handful of inconsequential little changes to catch you out. It's a fine read if you're a fan and want more, but it's not essential. Death & Rebirth is just a ~50 minute recap so it's not important either, but I like it.


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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-15 05:04:03 Reply

with gantz and berserk the manga versions are a lot better. while berserk isn't finished, there are a lot of volumes out, it's one of the definitive works in the dark fantasy genre.
gantz is kind of the same, the anime is basically just a promo for the manga, which is just an excess of hyper-violence, sex, and over the top, exciting battles, and it is amazing.

an anime i like to recommend to beginners is Kaiji. it's addicting, suspenseful and deep.

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Response to Anime Club 2014-04-19 15:54:25 Reply

Turns out that link I posted about AOT's season 2 was a fake, but at least you guys get it on Toonami in May. Lucky shits, only Anime on British TV is Pokémon.


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