Studying the Cuban Revolution

[rocknrollanimal]

Right, so I've been studying this for a comparative government project and have run into some problems regarding ALL of the source material.
I've noticed there's no non-biased information here. It's not a matter of facts being overlooked, but of facts actually being disputed. For example, there are respected historians who present evidence that the trials at la cabana were carried out in a just and orderly manner, and that only war criminals were sentenced to the firing squad. On the other hand, there are some elements presenting evidence that dissidentswere put to death from day 1. On the other hand, it seems to be generally accepted that the batista government was a total disaster, with a brutal police regime, an apartheid esque segregation system, and a tremendous population of workers that were practically slaves. It's also generally accepted that the government deteriorated over time, although the means of that deterioration are disputed. What do those of you here who have studied the topic make of the history of the cuban revolutionary government? of the merits or lack thereof of castro's land reform, education, and medical care policies? Would the cuban people have been better off had the batista government remained in tact?

[Der-Lowe]

At 10/6/06 10:27 PM, rocknrollanimal wrote: Right, so I've been studying this for a comparative government project and have run into some problems regarding ALL of the source material.
I've noticed there's no non-biased information here. It's not a matter of facts being overlooked, but of facts actually being disputed. For example, there are respected historians who present evidence that the trials at la cabana were carried out in a just and orderly manner, and that only war criminals were sentenced to the firing squad. On the other hand, there are some elements presenting evidence that dissidentswere put to death from day 1. On the other hand, it seems to be generally accepted that the batista government was a total disaster, with a brutal police regime, an apartheid esque segregation system, and a tremendous population of workers that were practically slaves. It's also generally accepted that the government deteriorated over time, although the means of that deterioration are disputed. What do those of you here who have studied the topic make of the history of the cuban revolutionary government? of the merits or lack thereof of castro's land reform, education, and medical care policies? Would the cuban people have been better off had the batista government remained in tact?

It is a very controversial subject, specially as the regime installed in the cuban revolution still rules over Cuba. And the questions you are making are subjective too, and pretty speculative. My personal opinion is that, if it hadn't been for the Cuban revolution and communism taking over, Cuba would be as poor as it is today, but distribution of wealth would be much worse. It human development index would be similar to its fellow Central American countries, instead of the most developed countries in Latin America (which is not saying much, by the way) like Argentina, Urugay and Chile. The dictatorship has also given Cuba a relatively stable goverment, probably there would have been many more goverments and revolutions (like in other Latin American countries) if the Cuban Revolution had failed.
Of course, a left-wing democracy (as in Europe) would have been the best, but the US foreign policy (and the US armed forces) didn't allow that in those times. They prefered a right wing dictatorship (including all the torturing and banning of free speech), than even a slightly socialist democracy. Want proof? Study Latin America's 20th century history.

[abluepillorafreemind]

Maybe you think this is entirely irrelavant ot this thread but i thought it'd be the best place to ask, I've been studying the Cold War, and we've just finished looking at the Cuban Missile crisis and i was wondering: What will happen in Cuba when Fidel Castro dies? Will his brother take over? Is America going to interfere (again)? Will there be another revolution?

[hongkongexpress]

to answer your question of what happens when Castro dies. He'll join Guevara in Athiest Limbo, with all the other athiests, playing Poker.

[abluepillorafreemind]

Leave Guevara out of this ... :p I think i actually asked what will happen in CUBA not to Castor's souls, althought the poketr scenario is a might fien one, answer me this though, will they be smoking cigars???

[Der-Lowe]

At 10/8/06 01:01 PM, abluepillorafreemind wrote: Maybe you think this is entirely irrelavant ot this thread but i thought it'd be the best place to ask, I've been studying the Cold War, and we've just finished looking at the Cuban Missile crisis and i was wondering: What will happen in Cuba when Fidel Castro dies? Will his brother take over? Is America going to interfere (again)? Will there be another revolution?

There will be a democracy, mainly because of the influence of the US, since they've decided that killing people is not fun anymore.

hopefully

[hongkongexpress]

At 10/8/06 04:45 PM, abluepillorafreemind wrote: Leave Guevara out of this ... :p I think i actually asked what will happen in CUBA not to Castor's souls, althought the poketr scenario is a might fien one, answer me this though, will they be smoking cigars???

No because Che would read modern anti smoking info, and learn that smoking is bad for Asthma. ha ha ha. but on a lighter note. when Castro got sick, I told my shop teacher this, and he said. "Castro, should give me all his ciggars, he won't need them where he's going". Well when Castro dies, then Cuba will return to it's old state, being a farm owned by the United Fruit Company, and the Montana Reality Corporation, and the Trump Casinos.

[Slizor]

Right, so I've been studying this for a comparative government project and have run into some problems regarding ALL of the source material.

All sources everywhere are biased.....especially stats. Get used to it.

[Begoner]

There will be a democracy, mainly because of the influence of the US, since they've decided that killing people is not fun anymore.

There is already democracy in Cuba; in some ways, it is better than the false democracy we have in the US. After all, Cuba's centralized democracy is more efficient because there are no political parties. In the US , you only have two (real) choices, while you Cuba you have numerous choices.

http://en.wikipedia...iki/Politics_of_Cuba

http://en.wikipedia...i/Cuba_and_democracy

[hongkongexpress]

There's an intresting novel, It's called "I Che Guevara". and it's about this elderly man who is or maybe thinks he is an elderly Che Guevara, who survived the Bolivian excution. Anyways, he returns to Cuba, disguised as this old mysterious dude who travels the villages that were forgotten by the revolution. (the ones that Andersen Cooper from CNN, recently did an expose on).

Castro in that novel, resigns as party leader, and goes on a world wide speaking tour, allows for free elections, and challenges US corporations to bring their millions of dollars in wealth to Cuba.

But the story points out, that if the "Free Cubans" the ones who fled to New York and Miami, returns then all the Tony Montana like vices return to Cuba, if the socialists win, nothing changes the economy still stagnates. But some mysterous old man offers a third option to the smaller cities in Cuba. To forget both systems and rely on self government, like forget relying on the national government for stuff like schools, and build them youselves, and stuff.

It's a very intresting read actually. Because all the Free Cubans are like rich and form their party with commercials with some sexy senoria agast at a bunch of old beuraucrats stamping stamps. and the Socialists now, are portraying all the Cubans as whore mongering yeast infested coke dealers.

and Che is just telling people to think for themselves.

It's a cool book. Unfortunatly the real Che Guevara is dead, but perhaps a similiar situation will happen in the book, that if Castro goes, and elections are held, then Cuba has a choice to be the "crack whore of the Americas". or the sick old man of the americas

[Der-Lowe]

There is already democracy in Cuba; in some ways, it is better than the false democracy we have in the US. After all, Cuba's centralized democracy is more efficient because there are no political parties. In the US , you only have two (real) choices, while you Cuba you have numerous choices.

In Cuba you have no democracy, and only ONE choice the Communist Party. And about efficiency, I have to agree with you, despotic goverments are the most efficient.
And don't get me started on civil rights.

[Begoner]

In Cuba you have no democracy, and only ONE choice the Communist Party. And about efficiency, I have to agree with you, despotic goverments are the most efficient.
And don't get me started on civil rights.

In the US, you have two choices: the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. In Cuba, you may pick anyone within the Communist Party, which allows for a greater diversification of ideas. You aren't restricted by a one-party system at all; you may choose whomever you wish, as almost everybody is a Party member. The denial of civil rights is not really widespread -- the amount of political dissidents who are under arrest in Cuba is equal to the number of prisoners the US is holding at Guantanamo -- pot, you shouldn't be calling the kettle black.

[JakeHero]

At 10/10/06 06:39 PM, Begoner wrote: In the US, you have two choices: the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. In Cuba, you may pick anyone within the Communist Party, which allows for a greater diversification of ideas.

Yeah, because you know, they allow rightist capitalists to run in Cuba.

sarcasm

[Begoner]

Yeah, because you know, they allow rightist capitalists to run in Cuba.

And "they" don't allow leftist socialists to run in the US (well, they can run, but none of the two major parties will accept them, so they cannot win). We're even.

[Der-Lowe]

At 10/10/06 07:55 PM, Begoner wrote: And "they" don't allow leftist socialists to run in the US (well, they can run, but none of the two major parties will accept them, so they cannot win). We're even.

They can form a 3rd party, the fact that nobody will vote for them isn't anti-democratic, on the contrary, it means the people like the Democrat and the Rupublican parties. Besides, there is no free speech in Cuba, and the opposition is incarcerated, whether in the US opposition is allowed, and I can tell the US President to go to hell if I want.

Cuba is NOT a democracy, Period.

[Begoner]

They can form a 3rd party, the fact that nobody will vote for them isn't anti-democratic, on the contrary, it means the people like the Democrat and the Rupublican parties.

No, very few people are more closely aligned with the Democratic and Republican parties rather than some other third party. However, they know that a third party cannot win, so they make a compromise. Very rarely has an independent come to power because of the large economical and political clout wielded by the two major parties -- they cooperate to squash any external opposition.

Besides, there is no free speech in Cuba, and the opposition is incarcerated, whether in the US opposition is allowed, and I can tell the US President to go to hell if I want.

As one political leader put it, “what you have in Cuba is a very specific model of revolution. In the grassroots in Cuba, there are constant elections that take place. Is it true that by electing a President or Prime Minister every five years you have democracy? Is it because you have press and TV channels that you have freedom of speech? There’s a lot of cynicism behind that. So many lies behind that. Every country has its own model.” How many political dissidents are currently under arrest in Cuba? Not many at all.

[JakeHero]

At 10/10/06 07:55 PM, Begoner wrote:

Yeah, because you know, they allow rightist capitalists to run in Cuba.

And "they" don't allow leftist socialists to run in the US (well, they can run, but none of the two major parties will accept them, so they cannot win). We're even.

Bullshit, dumbass. They can run, and are being accepted. In the US anyone can run if they have the money. In Cuba you can only run if you agree with the established way of thinking. That's not democracy, fool, that's tyranny.

[Der-Lowe]

At 10/10/06 09:04 PM, Begoner wrote: No, very few people are more closely aligned with the Democratic and Republican parties rather than some other third party. However, they know that a third party cannot win, so they make a compromise. Very rarely has an independent come to power because of the large economical and political clout wielded by the two major parties -- they cooperate to squash any external opposition.

I think the reason for this political doupoly is that the political parties have been successful, i.e. the US is the #1 world power, and that, given the success of the political parties, people are not interested in pòlitics, because the system is working, the have their nice paychecks, and life blossoms. A major social crisis would have to take place in order to this doupoly to be broken.

As one political leader put it, “what you have in Cuba is a very specific model of revolution. In the grassroots in Cuba, there are constant elections that take place. Is it true that by electing a President or Prime Minister every five years you have democracy? Is it because you have press and TV channels that you have freedom of speech? There’s a lot of cynicism behind that. So many lies behind that. Every country has its own model.” How many political dissidents are currently under arrest in Cuba? Not many at all.

Of course Democracy is not just choosing a leader every 4,5 or six years, it means that the masses have the power of the goverment, and minorities can express themselves freely. Cuba may have some low-level insertion of the public into the goverment, but that is not enough to be considered a democracy, it allows no opposition, and the leader will remain as a leader until he dies. We can consider the US democracy a bad one, but we can't consider Cuba's regime as any type of democracy, because it lacks its most basic features.