Issues with egos in the Audio Forum

[DavidOrr]

Before I start this thread, I want everyone to know that nothing I say here is targeted at any one person, but at the AF community at a whole.

I've noticed many users of the audio forum have been acting very conceited lately. More often than not, every time I visit I will find at least one post such as “No one's music is as good as MY music :P" or "I've been here on the forum longer than you, so respect your elders and shut up". At first it wasn't very bad, but it's been progressing. The messages are becoming more blunt and more frequent, and it's really starting to get to me.

First off, the difference between a user who has been on the Audio forum for 3 months or 3 years is very little. It only takes a month or two to realize how everything works, and to get to know everyone to some degree. For some reason the "elders" here feel that since they've been here for a few years they are smarter, and have more say in a discussion. I've seen 2-month-old Newgrounders insert more wisdom in a single post than some of the 2-year-olds have in 20 of them. It seems to have become acceptable to use "I've been here longer than you" as a valid argument. We were all new here at some point, but that doesn't mean we are naive and stupid.

Second, I've been getting really tired of the conceited posts. I used to think that people were joking, but I am having second thoughts. Throwing a little ":P" at the end of a vain statement doesn't change anything about it. I'm afraid these may turn into the "I'm better than you" arguments that seem to pop up occasionally between big-headed artists. Does posting an egotistical remark really benefit anyone? Chances are, it's only going to hurt your reputation. Many good artists seek attention and praise, but the great don't need it. If you have talent and are accomplished, you will command attention, praise, and respect through your music, not your words.

Again, none of this is pointed at any one person, we are all guilty of doing this from time to time. That said, I think we need to watch what we say a little closer, and ask ourselves "Is this really benefiting anyone?"

[dj-padman1]

I'd like to second that motion.
Especially apt is the part that states a great musicans work will speak for him. We should all keep that in mind.

[Grumbleduke]

On a semi-related note, I've beseeched help from the AF twice in two weeks, and got next to nothing in return (in one thread just sarky comments). Is this an unseen extension of what you have just described? Is it really too much to help someone?

[DavidOrr]

At 10/5/06 08:59 PM, dj-padman1 wrote: I'd like to second that motion.
Especially apt is the part that states a great musicans work will speak for him. We should all keep that in mind.

Glad you see where I'm coming from.

Grumbleduke, I think the willingness to help someone is another issue (although an important one, and not entirely unrelated). Nonetheless, an important reason to have forums is to look for advice, techniques, and help. I think this problem would be addressed if people posted helpful posts instead of conceited ones.

[Grumbleduke]

It's not that I expect help/ advice to be immediate, but even an "I don't know but I'll try" post is better than complete dismissal. The only person who actually offered advice was a "n00b" who had barely reached double figure posts. Regrettably I couldn't use his advice because it would illustrate your point marvellously. On a completely unrelated note, you have one more day before reaching level 10!

[DavidOrr]

At 10/5/06 09:27 PM, Grumbleduke wrote:

you have one more day before reaching level 10!

Yup :)

It's not that I expect help/ advice to be immediate, but even an "I don't know but I'll try" post is better than complete dismissal. The only person who actually offered advice was a "n00b" who had barely reached double figure posts. Regrettably I couldn't use his advice because it would illustrate your point marvellously.

I don't think I need any specific examples to illustrate my point, I'm sure everyone here has come across a smart "n00b" at some point. As for your question, I personally can't help you because I don't know the answer, but I would try directing your question to the audactiy forum, where you will probably find an answer.

[WinTang]

While I agree with most of what was said (the Dimrain47 vs. SaintIsaiah that was going on lately was a downright horror to behold, as was ParagonX9's attention craving - just to name an interesting few), there is another side to this.

Really, if someone is going to post an I-don't-know-how-to-make-audio-plz-tell-me thread, in a blatant rape of grammar/interpunction/syntaxis, I am not going to sound hospitable directing him or her to the sticky. The reason is that I think people should show respect when entering any community.

When you're enjoying some beers with some friends in a nice cafe and suddenly a guy pops up, joins you, leans back in his chair and says "Entertain me and buy me some beers", you tell him to fuck off.

So, when a guy wants to learn audio from the people at an audio forum, is too lazy to actually look at the page to see the words "New to audio? Read this first!", let alone use the forum search, and creates a thread asking for complete, thoroughly detailed tutorials on audio, you tell him to fuck off. Basically.

To Grumbleduke though, I have no idea what your question was so you might wanna just bump that thread, if I know how to help, I will.

[MrPariah]

Well the best we can do is to be as helpful as possiable and lower the ego level a little. Sadly though this is the internet where people can do what they want without getting in much trouble at all. Let's just try and do our best and that will bring the number of jerks online down... not much but some...

[DavidOrr]

At 10/5/06 09:58 PM, WinTang wrote: While I agree with most of what was said (the Dimrain47 vs. SaintIsaiah that was going on lately was a downright horror to behold, as was ParagonX9's attention craving - just to name an interesting few), there is another side to this.

Really, if someone is going to post an I-don't-know-how-to-make-audio-plz-tell-me thread, in a blatant rape of grammar/interpunction/syntaxis, I am not going to sound hospitable directing him or her to the sticky. The reason is that I think people should show respect when entering any community.

When you're enjoying some beers with some friends in a nice cafe and suddenly a guy pops up, joins you, leans back in his chair and says "Entertain me and buy me some beers", you tell him to fuck off.

I understand your point completely and agree. I was careful to specify that these people who are getting the "respect your elders" are not the people who are clueless, but the people who have been around here for a few months. I've seen some relatively regular posters get hit with this insult, which is ridiculous.

[DavidOrr]

At 10/5/06 10:04 PM, DJPariah wrote: Well the best we can do is to be as helpful as possiable and lower the ego level a little. Sadly though this is the internet where people can do what they want without getting in much trouble at all. Let's just try and do our best and that will bring the number of jerks online down... not much but some...

But how? The only way I can see to lower the ego level is to directly confront it. I see many people just brush off the egotistical remarks (myself included). By doing this it only encourages the act, which is why it's probably gotten so out of hand in the first place.

[SirSeraphdeFallen]

there is no GOOD way to go about the ego problem. i have been part of several on line communities and they ALL have one thing in common... veteran members who think they are god! it doesnt matter who it is or how long they have been part of the community, someone is going to step on them because others feel they are better than you. the attention whoring, that is another story... not much you can do about that. people who crave attention always find a way to be in the center of it.

people are people, nothing changing that.

[PERVOK]

At 10/5/06 09:58 PM, WinTang wrote: While I agree with most of what was said (the Dimrain47 vs. SaintIsaiah that was going on lately was a downright horror to behold, as was ParagonX9's attention craving - just to name an interesting few)

I hope you aren't including the small battle between me and Andrew-Parker in that "interesting few". It was something simple that sparked from him not being able to take and use constructive critism.

[Erkie]

This thread made me really nervous, but then I actually read it.

“No one's music is as good as MY music :P"

Also known as the Chronamut play-time attitude, it's intended to be goofy, anyone who uses it in a serious context is a legitimate moron.

"I've been here on the forum longer than you, so respect your elders and shut up"

Housemasta syndrome, he doesn't have much except that one sentence he doesn't really know how to use.

I've seen 2-month-old Newgrounders insert more wisdom in a single post than some of the 2-year-olds have in 20 of them.

Seniority is an automatic argument, you see, the audio forum is still in the stage of a retarded animal.

I've always held within my (lol "my") criteria that a regular is an individual who's smart, if they're not smart, then they should at least have posting experience, if that doesn't improve, then just general time based experience, if that doesn't work, then at least have some audio uploaded so we don't kick your ass.

I'm going to say this once, hopefully I can help crackdown egos that get in the way of our purpose:
If you post in the AF, if you plan to become a "regular" in the AF, if you even look at the AF, if you are not properly assisting in it's overall mission, don't even post here if you can't do that.

This isn't the general forum anymore, if you're not equally pulling your weight in productivity you don't mean jackshit to us.

[jarrydn]

What Erkie said, plusssssss

It's the internet. Take everything you read with a grain of salt. It's way too easy for people to say things they don't really mean, when they aren't talking to someone face to face.

[Metaljonus]

I pwn.

[Rucklo]

I think it´s because most of us are statwhores, one way or another, and if you can stick out by having an early signup date, alot of songs, being a girl, being gay (what, im not mentioning any names:) or whatever, people will do that.
Some people are more attentioncrawing then other, some are more attentioncrawing on the INTERNET (yes, like jarrydn said, its teh internet...), whatever peoples attitude might be there should still be respect.

Amongst the "regulars" (IMO, a regular is someone who post on this forum regurlarly, and contribute to the forum one way or another. Could just be with a good mood, to be honest) there should be more respect, even though this person thinks this and thisone have opposite opinion.

If you can respect other people, even if they have habits you dont approve of, much is won for you. Hell, I´ve worked with many ppl I don´t like, still I try to respect for something (maybe wht they do, who they are, or something positive about them).

internet.

[pr0de]

its a stuggle of knowing what you dont know, lots of replies in help topics are misleading, one guy asks to remove vocals, one replies that "the music would sound bad". one guy askes how to convert # kbps CBR to # VBR. some guy with his occupation saying "audio engineer" replies with "WTF is CBR?"

so i guess it would easier for these people just to tell them to shut up

conclusion, yall niggaz is dumb

[Erkie]

At 10/6/06 03:54 AM, b-a wrote:
conclusion, yall niggaz is dumb

I think this sums everything up clearly.

[Love-Hate-War]

No matter how many times we tell people to read the sticky, another person will just come in asking "whats the best free audio program" it used to annoy me, but now I just learn to deal with it. You've always gotta think about it the other way round, if you were new and missed the stick by mistake, would you like a load of arseholes having a go at you making you feel embarrased?

As far as my ego goes, I don't really have one, i never consider my music good. I know there's people out there worse then me, but there's ALOT better. I dont make music for other people, I make it for myself, to see how far I can stretch my ability.

LHW out.

I hope that CBR comment wasn't aimed at me CBR = constant bit rate :D

[JackCurrie]

I generally do not visit the Audio forum, I'm usually at the general. This is mainly because as soon as you say something about a band, your hit with a wave of insults and PM's saying stuff like 'OMFG UR A FAGET HOW CUD U LIKE DEM!?!'

It's just a letdown.

[Love-Hate-War]

At 10/6/06 05:10 AM, Botmeister wrote: I generally do not visit the Audio forum, I'm usually at the general. This is mainly because as soon as you say something about a band, your hit with a wave of insults and PM's saying stuff like 'OMFG UR A FAGET HOW CUD U LIKE DEM!?!'

It's just a letdown.

The thing you have to appreiciate about some musicians is that they like the music THEY like, and slate anything else. Metal heads being the most elitist >:( Also the AF is more a place for the discussion on the creation of music, not professional music.

[jarrydn]

At 10/6/06 05:10 AM, Botmeister wrote: I generally do not visit the Audio forum, I'm usually at the general. This is mainly because as soon as you say something about a band, your hit with a wave of insults and PM's saying stuff like 'OMFG UR A FAGET HOW CUD U LIKE DEM!?!'

It's just a letdown.

I can't see a regular doing that :/

Assuming you didn't just create a thread declaring your love for a band. As long as it was in context i highly doubt that would happen. And metalheads aren't elitist lovehatewhore ;D

[Love-Hate-War]

At 10/6/06 05:21 AM, CptnJarrrrrydn wrote: And metalheads aren't elitist lovehatewhore ;D

Haha, I meant some. But I am a metalhead, so I know plenty of elitist ones that slate all other styles of music but metal. Crazy aussie man :P

[jarrydn]

At 10/6/06 05:24 AM, Love-Hate-War wrote: Crazy aussie man :P

Touche' friend...touche'

[DavidOrr]

At 10/6/06 03:01 AM, Rucklo wrote: I think it´s because most of us are statwhores, one way or another, and if you can stick out by having an early signup date, alot of songs, being a girl, being gay (what, im not mentioning any names:) or whatever, people will do that.
Some people are more attentioncrawing then other, some are more attentioncrawing on the INTERNET (yes, like jarrydn said, its teh internet...), whatever peoples attitude might be there should still be respect.

Just because it is the internet, it doesn't mean that you should act any different to someone than if you were to talk with them in real life, on the phone, or in a letter. Sure, the mediums are different, but if you are interacting with others in some form of communcation there should be certain manners and respect. I think that is basically what you just said.

Amongst the "regulars" (IMO, a regular is someone who post on this forum regurlarly, and contribute to the forum one way or another. Could just be with a good mood, to be honest) there should be more respect, even though this person thinks this and thisone have opposite opinion.

If you can respect other people, even if they have habits you dont approve of, much is won for you. Hell, I´ve worked with many ppl I don´t like, still I try to respect for something (maybe wht they do, who they are, or something positive about them).

I'm not really talking about respect. I think respecting someone and liking someone can be unrelated. There are many people I like but don't respect as much as people I dislike. I think the best way to command respect is through your actions (as I had said before). I find it hard to have a lot of respect a person who is very full of themselves. That's not to say I don't respect them at all, but a person who doesn't have to announce their fondness of themselves is more respectable.

At 10/6/06 05:08 AM, Love-Hate-War wrote: No matter how many times we tell people to read the sticky, another person will just come in asking "whats the best free audio program" it used to annoy me, but now I just learn to deal with it. You've always gotta think about it the other way round, if you were new and missed the stick by mistake, would you like a load of arseholes having a go at you making you feel embarrased?

That's how I deal with it too. I try to be a civil as possible regardless of how annoyed I am, because you never know if these "newbies" are going to have a lot to offer the community or not. Still, this isn't really the issue I am adressing.

[Chronamut]

heh I felt nervous upon reading this thread title too..

as for those ppl pming you telling you you're awful for liking so and so - or for not liking so-and-so's music - from observance I've noticed a lot of those angry ppl replying tend to be girls.. girls of ALL ages.. and fanatical fans.. just brush em off..

and yes its the internet.. I may come off as an attention craving gay senior with a god complex but its the internet and we all like to have fun - obviously I don't go around saying im a god in real life hahaha.. but hey it's fun here - we're a close knit community and noone really gives a fuck - we all know who's kidding and who is just being an asshole. Most of our lives suck - we come here for relief.

[Erkie]

I finally agree with Orr.

I respect SpamWarrior, but only because I hate his guts. We don't get in eachothers ways and we don't conflict.

[Khuskan]

Eliteism need not be a problem as long as everyone understands that i'm better than them. :-P

(seriously, do we have to bring in huge </sarcasm> tags now?)

I actually agree with what you're saying here, but I havn't see nearly as many regulars do it as... newer regular-wannabees who think their music is better simply because they havn't listened to anything else.

But after all, we are MUSICIANS and what are musicians if not the decendants of those great minds from Vienna who were commissioned to write symphonies for menial events to glorify moments. Thinking that we're better than other people fuels us.

[Erkie]

Being descendants of a specific defintion of musician doesn't mean much, if anything, trying to live up to "them".

I could record myself shitting into a can and call the music, and if it gets successful, that'd be bitch slappping orchestrators everywhere.

[SpamWarrior]

At 10/6/06 01:13 PM, Erkie wrote: I finally agree with Orr.

I respect SpamWarrior, but only because I hate his guts. We don't get in eachothers ways and we don't conflict.

LOL love you too erkie, you big gay bear.