Philosophy 2 There is no purpose

[NoNameProphet]

Here's something many of you may think is a bit basic, but sometimes it's better to give a simpler one. Less confusion means lower chance of things being taken the wrong way. Anyway.

I highly doubt there's any 'purpose' for human beings or the universe. And if there was, he would have to be far from perfect. Why?

Well, lets say you were God. Lets also assume that you were an omniscient being. You could hear everyone's thoughts, you could feel everything, because you were everything. You know all that is going to happen, and has happened because you are outside of the space-time continuum.

Why the hell would you create the universe? If you know what's going to happen, why bother? If there's a purpose, and we reach it, then what? The plan must be infinite, but then it would have no goal, so then it wouldn't be a plan at all.

Sure you can take the easy way out and say "he thinks in mysterious ways", but that's just silly. This is all why I doubt 'his' existance as an actual sentient entity.
___________________________________________
How was the universe created? What was it's trigger? Chicken or the Egg? I have no idea, but I doubt there's an almighty 'plan'.

Another thing you can use to doubt God's infinite power is that mistake he made with Moses, and how he promised not to interfere with life again. Many use that as a reason for him giving us total freedom, yet it is also a symbol of his incompetence and imperfectness, if he even exists.

******
Many claim to be inspired by God to perform various actions. Presidents, Hitler, Saints.. they all claim heavenly divination. Why does this God interfere and give messages to the few, when he could intefere and just send messages to the many? Why not give concrete proof?

Some say we need to be taught a lesson, and that's the plan. For the soul to reach purity and get into 'heaven', but when did our individual entities first exist? Created by God? But why would he do something like that if he already knows the result? Why break up the infinite?
*****

Those questions spark the idea of maybe just existance being one... and it willed itself into physical manifestation. We think we are one, but like a single drop of water that break apart from the ocean when it hits a rock, it quickly returns to that ocean and you cannot identify it from the rest.

So, to sum it all up, there might be no God (in the popular Westerny term of the word), or Self, no Plan. Just existance.
____________________
It's mind-boggling to think about it. The answers to these kinds of questions will go on for infinite. I have given many questions and few answers for those reasons....

I apologize for stretching it all on for so long too, it'll be hard to analyze it all at once so, just read it all and take a piece you like. Respond to that.

Bit choppy too, hope you guys can make some sense out of my late-night brain-splurge =P

Enjoy.

[NJDeadzone]

I'm Jewish in tradition, but deist in faith...i wrote a few months ago about deism and it got me in trouble because many were spreading the word and giving me a role i didn't want...but i'll talk about it again.

Deism is the believe that God created the universe and left it alone to do its thing. What makes it so much fun is that it accounts for everything and doesn't favor a certain people. Things just happen.
A simple analogy would be that God's playing SimUniverse and built the minimal requirements and is just putting it on the highest speed of growth and left the computer screen. That reasoning works for me, and i've been closer to him ever since
::halo floats over my head::
>< relgion is the opium of the masses-Karl Marx

[Taxman2A]

At 3/19/03 12:57 AM, NJDeadzone wrote:

>< relgion is the opium of the masses-Karl Marx

yeah right, Karl... ever heard of sex, music, alchohol, drugs, television, the internet, and about anything and everything else people use as a passtime?

I understand what he was trying to say about religion, however, the simple fact is that in this day and age, many people drown their insecurities concerning their own mortality in other things than scripture.

Oh well, this is the same guy that, after writing "The Communist Manifesto" took a look at his practices in action and said "I am not a Marxist".

[NoNameProphet]

At 3/19/03 12:57 AM, NJDeadzone wrote: Deism is the believe that God created the universe and left it alone to do its thing. What makes it so much fun is that it accounts for everything and doesn't favor a certain people. Things just happen.
A simple analogy would be that God's playing SimUniverse and built the minimal requirements and is just putting it on the highest speed of growth and left the computer screen. That reasoning works for me, and i've been closer to him ever since

halo floats over my head::

>< relgion is the opium of the masses-Karl Marx

Lol,if that were the reason it would make sense. It totally destroys that Christiany "God loves everyone" view since he 'walked off'.

That's kind of a strange concept. Because then he's like an invisible person that shapes worlds and runs off @_@. I honestly don't know what of the things I said that I truly believe though. Its not that important to me though, eitherway I'll be living my life the same way.

Do more good than bad. It's silly if we have to be a certain religion to be saved from hell or whatever. It's just not something that matters and effects what we do. If you ever ask me what religion I am from, I'll reply none, or my own religion. *shrug* The religion of humanity. =P

But if that eastern meditation/enlightenment thing is the answer... Ooops. I doubt with my current personality would be able to live such lives anyway. If they're right, I'll just finish the job in another lifetime, one where I am actually born there. Eitherway, still livin' the same way.

Well, I still THINK I should be living that way. I really am not as good as my words. A hypocrite yeah, but few truely stick to their beliefs.

[NoNameProphet]

At 3/19/03 01:04 AM, Taxman2A wrote: yeah right, Karl... ever heard of sex, music, alchohol, drugs, television, the internet, and about anything and everything else people use as a passtime?

Well, I guess in Karl's defense... he didn't say those things didn't also numb you. He was only talking about religion. Lol.

And yeah, religion does have that problem. People accept certain truths because they must, else they face damnation. They adopt absurd rituals. Just look at what I had to go through in a Roman Catholic school... ROSARY. Incarnation of the very thing I despise. Almost 50 friggin prayers, and we are supposed to do it because people say so.

Good thing I ditched that crazy and manipulative religion (not only for that reason. If you wanna know why, ask later)

[Taxman2A]

At 3/19/03 01:10 AM, NoNameProphet wrote:

Good thing I ditched that crazy and manipulative religion (not only for that reason. If you wanna know why, ask later)

The catholic school I went to was as manipulative as hell also. During my freshman year of high school they literally brainwashed us during a "morality class", making us sit through several hours of videos of doctors administering abortions to women. I remember after that class we talked about and every single one ofthe 40 students in the room was talking about how they would be pro-life forever, and about how pro-choice really meant pro-death. We were given homework assignments to cut out ads for abortion clinics we found in phone books and newspapers, and we were made to bring them in so that our teachers could show how all of the ads were evil and lied to us.

It took a good 4 years for that brainwashing to wear off. No shit. During that time if you had told me that you were pro-choice I would have instantly started a debate with you.

I have both been through Marine Corps training, and Catholic high school, and let me tell you- Marines are not brainwashed at all, especially when compared to students from my high school.

[NoNameProphet]

At 3/19/03 01:20 AM, Taxman2A wrote: The catholic school I went to was as manipulative as hell also. During my freshman year of high school they literally brainwashed us during a "morality class", making us sit through several hours of videos of doctors administering abortions to women. I remember after that class we talked about and every single one ofthe 40 students in the room was talking about how they would be pro-life forever, and about how pro-choice really meant pro-death. We were given homework assignments to cut out ads for abortion clinics we found in phone books and newspapers, and we were made to bring them in so that our teachers could show how all of the ads were evil and lied to us.

Lol. I know exactly what you're talking about. I dealt with it last year actually. I managed to see through it about a year later (now). Thank god for world religions class. Opened my mind up from the narrow narrow christian point of view.

[NoNameProphet]

Oh yeah, but everyone else is still brainwashed and they think I am going to hell just because I say prayer and the rosary is useless BS.
No one is any fun. Oh and the fact that I enjoy progressive rock, Incubus n' Tool... really doesn't help me. "Devil-Music" lol. *sigh* I want out, but last year is soon to start so I might as well finish it somewhere where I know where all the classes and blah are...

[Taxman2A]

At 3/19/03 01:24 AM, NoNameProphet wrote:

Lol. I know exactly what you're talking about. I dealt with it last year actually. I managed to see through it about a year later (now). Thank god for world religions class. Opened my mind up from the narrow narrow christian point of view.

Was a high school world religions class? If so thats interesting, the world religions class at my high school was all about why other religions suck.

[Commander-K25]

Karl Marx said "Religion is the opitiate of the masses."

He was wrong about other things too.

[OlenWhitaker]

I only have one thing to add.
Just because you don't know why a think is or should be so, doesn't mean it's not. If I drop a rock off a cliff, and it falls to the bottom, I don't have to know why gravity works to make the assumption that if I jump off, I will follow the same course as the rock.
Don't get me wrong, you make good points, I just don't think they collectively point to anything in particular.

On another matter: I, too, went to a religious school for nine hellish years. Looking back now, I can see where the methods they used were textbook non-violent brainwashing techniques. I'm pretty much recovered now, some seven years after I walked out one day and refused to go back. I was one of the strong ones, or maybe just lucky; a lot of my classmates committed suicide. It was bad. I still have a hard time talking about those times.

I feel very strongly that religion has no place in schools.

[Ted-Easton]

The egg came first. And I'll prove it if you don't believe me. ;)

[Slizor]

yeah right, Karl... ever heard of sex, music, alchohol, drugs, television, the internet, and about anything and everything else people use as a passtime?

I choose to quote you "in this day and age".

Oh well, this is the same guy that, after writing "The Communist Manifesto" took a look at his practices in action and said "I am not a Marxist".

I've heard the quote, but not what you've said, mainly because Marxism didn't take off until well after he was dead.

[NoNameProphet]

At 3/19/03 02:57 AM, OlenWhitaker wrote:

:collectively point to anything in particular.

Nope, just said stuff and hoped it would stir up thoughts. Never really had any points to prove, just pondering.

I feel very strongly that religion has no place in schools.

Yeouch. Pretty big statement there =P. Maybe single religion schools should not exist, yet the opportunity for Multiple Religion learning to arise at a grade level where it isn't just childish memorization and they actual reason and create ideals.

Oh and other guy, if you ever see this again, lets hear why the egg came first. =D

[clownfish]

Oh, I can solve the chicken/egg enigma. You see, the chicken must have evolved from another species, and I'm not saying it happened over one generation, but the chicken we know now must have had a parent that was not exactly like the chicken now right? That's because it was still evolving, and still is, by the way. But the egg the parent produced hatched into a chicken as we know it. So, basically the egg came first. And my vision on the universe and the big bang? I have a topic somewhere named m-theory, look it up if you want, I still support it fully.

[NoNameProphet]

Bleh, can't seem to find it. Think you could give a better keyword to look for or something? I'll try your profile too I guess =P

[clownfish]

Here is the URL:
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=47866
It's mostly conversation between me and dr_Natch_Kilder. Guess because we are in the same tim-zone...

[OlenWhitaker]

Let me clarify my "religion has no place in schools" comment. I meant that in terms of schools that teach that a particular religion is right and all others are wrong. I didn't mean this to extend to scrapping comparative religion classes in schools as long as they are unbiased. Sorry, I didn't make that clear.

[NJDeadzone]

At 3/19/03 12:57 AM, NJDeadzone wrote:

>< religion is the opium of the masses-Karl Marx

that was very cliche of me, i apologize...anyway you all get my picture so true to my promise i will speak of it no more.