The Immigration Debate

[wesdood]

Resolution - All illegal immigrants should be classified as “felons,” rounded up and deported.

Argue your points

[BrickMurus]

At 10/3/06 11:24 AM, wesdood wrote: Resolution - All illegal immigrants should be classified as “felons,” rounded up and deported.

I will try to give this a quick run through, as I can see you took a good hard 5 seconds to think this out. Rounding up the large number of illegal immigrants is an improbable if not impossible task. The sheer amount of time, money, and man power that would go into such an operation would require something along the lines of martial law or a strict dictatorship. Especially when you think that the current amount of law enforcement that we have would have to arrest, process, and transport them would cripple their ability to actually fight crime.

I say we just listen to Carlos Mencia, who says that Mexicans really hate other Mexicans, so we open the border, and then eventually they will realize that there are to many damn Mexicans in America, and then the will all go to Canada, where they will be called Frostbacks.

[NorseBeast]

I don't think "rounding them up" is really possible, as the last guy said. What we need to do is to realize that since they are "illegal immigrants", they are not citizens, and we should stop giving them rights as citizens. They are in this country illegally, and as such should be given only basic human rights- much like prisoners.

Basic human rights do not include drivers licenses. *cough* *cough* *California* *cough*

[JMHX]

You can explain to people when the U.S. economy grinds to a halt.

[ImmoralLibertarian]

At 10/3/06 11:24 AM, wesdood wrote: Argue your points

If you’re happy to see California and the other states who rely on their cheap labour economies to slip into the gutter, then why not?

[Peter-II]

Immigration is important. Very few people seem to understand that.

Furthermore, there's a difference between an immigrant and an "illegal" immigrant.

[JoS]

The US economy depends on cheap illegal labour. You cant take 12 million people out of your workforce who are working for less than minimum wage and not expect that to have an impact on your economy.

Furthermroe , why are we only making the act of being an illegal immigrant illegal? why not crack down on those who employ them? If there was no one giving them jobs they would have no reason to come. I say crack down first and foremost on people who employ them.

[BeFell]

How about we just enforce the laws we have on the books.

[Proteas]

At 10/3/06 02:05 PM, BeFell wrote: How about we just enforce the laws we have on the books.

You see, I like this idea. I once heard it said that in my home state of Tennessee you can be fined a bare MINIMUM of $10,000 and have your business license revoked for having illegals working for your business. And that's already on the books, it's just waiting to be enforced...

[ReiperX]

It isn't a simple solution, opening the borders isn't feasable, and neither is deporting all of the illegal immigrants. Here are a few parts of my solution.

1) Very harsh punishments to businesses hiring illegal immigrants, it isn't that hard for an employee to find out if they are illegal or not. Hell my employer just made me prove I was a legal citizen. First time, heavy fine, second strip the business liscense, it won't take long for businesses to realize the risk vs reward isn't there anymore.

2) Make becomming a legal immigrant easier, being able to speak english, quick background check to make sure they don't have a criminal record, and blood tests for HIV, Hep, ect. While the blood test wouldn't stop them from becomming legal immigrants, it would allow them to know if they have any of those, and if they knowingly spread them without their sexual partner's knowledge it would be punishable.

3) Allow work Visas that illegal immigrants could apply for, even within the US to work cheap labor jobs. Same simple things as becomming a legal immigrant english language, blood test, background check. Just a temperary status that they would have to reapply for every 6 months or so, applyable within the US.

[wesdood]

At 10/3/06 02:22 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 10/3/06 02:05 PM, BeFell wrote: How about we just enforce the laws we have on the books.

You see, I like this idea. I once heard it said that in my home state of Tennessee you can be fined a bare MINIMUM of $10,000 and have your business license revoked for having illegals working for your business. And that's already on the books, it's just waiting to be enforced...

well, here in connecticut it's being enforced too. my friends dad was employing an illegal immigrant. her dad was fined $50,000 for it. they guy faked his birth certificate and social security information. he was caught when trying to cash his paycheck.

on a side note - her dad still empoylees him, just pays him under the table.
second side note - he makes over $20 an hour, so don't start on that whole "work for less tahn minimum" bullshit you people like to talk about.

[Cereal]

At 10/3/06 11:24 AM, wesdood wrote: Resolution - All illegal immigrants should be classified as “felons,” rounded up and deported.

Argue your points

deporting... they'll just walk over the boarder again.

[ImmoralLibertarian]

At 10/3/06 02:46 PM, wesdood wrote: on a side note - her dad still empoylees him, just pays him under the table.
second side note - he makes over $20 an hour, so don't start on that whole "work for less tahn minimum" bullshit you people like to talk about.

Oh, well of course, if you have one example then that MUST mean all other reports of illegals working for peanuts are false.

sarcasm, if you didn’t already know…

[wesdood]

At 10/3/06 02:49 PM, Cereal wrote:

At 10/3/06 11:24 AM, wesdood wrote: Resolution - All illegal immigrants should be classified as “felons,” rounded up and deported.

Argue your points

deporting... they'll just walk over the boarder again.

not with the border security. also, your guys are just thinking this implys mexicans. it's not. theres thousands of illegal european immigrants and stuff. they can't just "climb the fence" can they?

[Cereal]

Don't forget the cubans, they jump the fence of the boat.

At 10/3/06 11:24 AM, wesdood wrote: Resolution - All illegal immigrants should be classified as “felons,” rounded up and

not with the border security. also, your guys are just thinking this implys mexicans. it's not. theres thousands of illegal european immigrants and stuff. they can't just "climb the fence" can they?

[wesdood]

At 10/3/06 03:00 PM, Cereal wrote: Don't forget the cubans, they jump the fence of the boat.

more like they build trampolines on thier boats so they don't even have to try as hard.

At 10/3/06 02:55 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 10/3/06 02:46 PM, wesdood wrote: on a side note - her dad still empoylees him, just pays him under the table.
second side note - he makes over $20 an hour, so don't start on that whole "work for less tahn minimum" bullshit you people like to talk about.

Oh, well of course, if you have one example then that MUST mean all other reports of illegals working for peanuts are false.

sarcasm, if you didn’t already know…

totally. it's impossible to think illegal immigrants can make even close to minimum wage.

[ImmoralLibertarian]

At 10/3/06 03:17 PM, wesdood wrote: totally. it's impossible to think illegal immigrants can make even close to minimum wage.

Stop polarising. Yes, some will be paid very well, but the VAST majority are paid poorly.

[JMHX]

I don't like the idea of multiregional recession within the United States from pulling immigrants out.

[JoS]

The Immigration Debate.

[wesdood]

At 10/3/06 03:40 PM, JoS wrote: The Immigration Debate.

thats a good movie thing. but that also is slightly off what i wanted this on. this isn' about immigration. it's about illegal immigration. there were no laws preventing immigration at that time, so it was legal. now it's not legal to do that.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 10/3/06 03:28 PM, Truthiness wrote: I don't like the idea of multiregional recession within the United States from pulling immigrants out.

The recession(if any) would be strongest in the southwest and weakest in the North and North East.

Simply put, cheap labour isn't a strong portion for those local economies, and due to area, illegal labour is also hard to come by.

But otherwise, to stop the flood, you must fix the dam. Target illegal immigration at it's source, business that exploit these people.

[Laos101]

At 10/3/06 11:24 AM, wesdood wrote: Resolution - All illegal immigrants should be classified as “felons,” rounded up and deported.

Argue your points

i disagree

they should have to make a payment based on how many years they were here and how much their income is then go for a free "Nightschool" program to become american citizens

[fli]

At 10/3/06 01:27 PM, Truthiness wrote: You can explain to people when the U.S. economy grinds to a halt.

I really don't think so...
I mean... we do import so much of our stuff world wide.

[NorseBeast]

At 10/3/06 06:44 PM, Alexi101 wrote: they should have to make a payment based on how many years they were here and how much their income is then go for a free "Nightschool" program to become american citizens

Problem: They got no money. Still a very costy affair, considering the school would be free, but you would first have to build them, them staff and supply them. We need an idea that does not include spending large amounts of money. Just enforcing the laws that are in place seems like the best option to me, crack down on the buisnesses.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 10/3/06 12:22 PM, BrickMurus wrote: Rounding up the large number of illegal immigrants is an improbable if not impossible task. The sheer amount of time, money, and man power that would go into such an operation would require something along the lines of martial law or a strict dictatorship.

Yes? And? Any sacrifice neccessary for enforcing the law should be acceptable.

Especially when you think that the current amount of law enforcement that we have would have to arrest, process, and transport them would cripple their ability to actually fight crime.

Which is why I've thought, for many years, that our police force needs to be given autonomy. Our police force needs ten times the funds, and twenty times the manpower. Law enforcement, as a governmental branch, should be the most important branch in our country.

At 10/3/06 01:27 PM, Truthiness wrote: You can explain to people when the U.S. economy grinds to a halt.

Let it. If that's what it takes the enforce the law, maybe it's been a long time coming.

At 10/3/06 01:59 PM, JoS wrote: Furthermroe , why are we only making the act of being an illegal immigrant illegal? why not crack down on those who employ them? If there was no one giving them jobs they would have no reason to come. I say crack down first and foremost on people who employ them.

Agreed. Shut down every single business who knowingly employs and exploits illegal aliens. Make it a felony to be and illegal alien, and a felony to employ an illegal alien. I don't give a fuck if it's Wal-Mart, or Mom and Pop's House of Fruiit.

At 10/3/06 02:49 PM, Cereal wrote: deporting... they'll just walk over the boarder again.

Kudos, for bringing that up.

The attack on illegal aliens must be three pronged.

The first is a baricade, between the Mexico and America borders.
The second is a crackdown on every and all businesses who give incentive to Illegal Aliens.
And the third is the rounding up and deportation of every single illegal alien in America.

[ImmoralLibertarian]

At 10/3/06 06:55 PM, Samuel-HALL wrote: At 10/3/06 06:55 PM, Samuel-HALL wrote:

At 10/3/06 01:27 PM, Truthiness wrote:

You can explain to people when the U.S. economy grinds to a halt.

Let it. If that's what it takes the enforce the law, maybe it's been a long time coming.

Riiiiight.... because a resession is worth the price of having fewer hispanic faces on the streets.

And the third is the rounding up and deportation of every single illegal alien in America.

lmao.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 10/3/06 07:03 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 10/3/06 06:55 PM, Samuel-HALL wrote:

You can explain to people when the U.S. economy grinds to a halt.

Let it. If that's what it takes the enforce the law, maybe it's been a long time coming.

Riiiiight.... because a resession is worth the price of having fewer hispanic faces on the streets.

Who gives a fuck about hispanics? Thousands of legal immigtants enter this country every year (some of them hispanics), and I stand strongly behind them. I stand behind all legal immigrants.

We're aren't, however, talking about hispanics. We're talking about illegal aliens. We're talking about criminals.

[troubles1]

I think the word ILLEAGAL; speaks for it's self. so strick punishment , de[pending on the number of times they commit the ileagal action of entering our country without proper documentation. Fines,jail, and even death..
Seriously though We need to make the boerders surounding us more secure , then figure out ways to improve the Mexican econamy, through tourisim,manifacturing of goods, what ever it takes to make them want to stay in there own country..
And any person entering this country ILEAGAL OR EVEN LEAGAL FOR THAT MATTER, SHOULD BE SENT STRAIGHT BASIC TRAINING IN THE MILITARY FOR NO LESS THAN 4 YEARS.. You want to live here so bad fine go fight for it, it seems fair.

[NorseBeast]

At 10/3/06 08:18 PM, troubles1 wrote: And any person entering this country ILEAGAL OR EVEN LEAGAL FOR THAT MATTER, SHOULD BE SENT STRAIGHT BASIC TRAINING IN THE MILITARY FOR NO LESS THAN 4 YEARS.. You want to live here so bad fine go fight for it, it seems fair.

What would the purpose be to that? It does not solve any problems (the opposite, it has the potential to create many more problems) and is completely unneccesary and unreasonable. What good is sending an illegal immigrant through bootcamp going to do, especially in a future time of peace?

[ImmoralLibertarian]

With every post he makes. I am more sure troubles1 is a complete, and utter moron.

But then, that's just my opinion.