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At 10/3/06 10:56 AM, BeFell wrote: You know, if teachers were packing this wouldn't be a problem. Can amish have guns? Maybe just a muzzle loader...

because everyone having guns made the west so mild?

At 10/3/06 11:00 AM, stafffighter wrote:

At 10/3/06 10:56 AM, BeFell wrote: You know, if teachers were packing this wouldn't be a problem. Can amish have guns? Maybe just a muzzle loader...

because everyone having guns made the west so mild?

Perhaps you would like to adopt England's gun laws, the strictest in the world I believe.

At 10/3/06 11:28 AM, BeFell wrote:

Perhaps you would like to adopt England's gun laws, the strictest in the world I believe.

Yes they have a higher crime rate lower murder per capita. I'd rather be beaten up than shot.

At 10/3/06 11:34 AM, stafffighter wrote: Yes they have a higher crime rate lower murder per capita. I'd rather be beaten up than shot.

Americans are just better shots.=P

At 10/3/06 11:47 AM, BeFell wrote:

Americans are just better shots.=P

Still more death dude.

At 10/3/06 11:53 AM, stafffighter wrote: Still more death dude.

So outlaw cars, alcohol, cigarettes and McDonalds, they kill a hell of a lot more people than guns.

At 10/3/06 12:12 PM, BeFell wrote:

At 10/3/06 11:53 AM, stafffighter wrote: Still more death dude.

So outlaw cars, alcohol, cigarettes and McDonalds, they kill a hell of a lot more people than guns.

A drunk driver isn't going to take out a school yard of people. Unless he has a machine gun at the time.

the answere is to stop gun production and to not let the general public have guns. police should have guns but only for certain situations. fuck "the right to bear arms".

guns are shitty.

At 10/3/06 12:13 PM, stafffighter wrote:

At 10/3/06 12:12 PM, BeFell wrote:

At 10/3/06 11:53 AM, stafffighter wrote: Still more death dude.

So outlaw cars, alcohol, cigarettes and McDonalds, they kill a hell of a lot more people than guns.

stop trying to rationalize gun violence. just because theres alot of fucked up shit in society already it doesnt mean we shouldnt try to eliminate the problems one by one, the fact that there are gun AND mcdicks AND cigarettes prooves that we need to do somthign about ALL OF THESE THINGS.

Heh, yeah I saw that. They kept saying something about an incident 20 years ago that happened to the shooter. But they won't say what. Intrigueing.

At 10/2/06 11:11 PM, TheSovereign wrote: Video games are the problem!

No, that's just a way for mothers to blame off the real reason: Themselfes.

And it's just a way for lawyers to make money like fucking grass.

And accually, i played Quake II when i was 6-8 years old, and you know what?

I've never hit someone!

At 10/3/06 11:28 AM, BeFell wrote: Perhaps you would like to adopt England's gun laws, the strictest in the world I believe.

Britain has the strictest laws.

That's a graph for violent crime, not gun crime. The two are completely different.

compare the two nations gun death and the graph will look very different.

At 10/3/06 12:19 PM, fallen-son wrote: fuck "the right to bear arms".

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

So, go get yourself a BIG handful of vasoline and your favorite dildo and GO FUCK YOURSELF. There are things in society more dangerous than guns, why don't you go on a self righteous rant about THEM for a change?

And this just in from AOL News...

------------------

Police Say Amish School Killer Longed to Molest
Fifth Girl Shot in Schoolhouse Dies, Four Remain Critical
By MARK SCOLFORO, AP

NICKEL MINES, Pennsylvania (Oct. 3) - A man who laid siege to a one-room Amish schoolhouse, killing five girls, told his wife shortly before opening fire that he had molested two young relatives decades ago and was tormented by "dreams of molesting again," authorities said Tuesday.

Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, appeared to have planned to molest the girls at the school, but police have no evidence that he actually did, State Police Commissioner Jeffrey B. Miller said.

He said Roberts had sexual lubricant with him and flex-ties that he had bought seven days earlier, and that he chained the girls together in a line at the blackboard after sending the boys and adults away. Roberts also had weapons and supplies indicating he was prepared for a long stand-off, he said.

"He states in his suicide note that he had dreams about doing what he did 20 years ago again," Miller said.

Miller said police could not confirm the claim about molesting young relatives when Roberts would have been a just a child himself, and he said Roberts' family members knew nothing of molestation in his past.

Roberts left one note for his wife, one for each of his three children and a note and checklist in his truck, Miller said. The note to his wife talked about his anguish over the loss of the couple's newborn daughter, Elise, in 1997, Miller said.

"The note that he left for his wife talks about the good memories together, the tragedy with Elise, it focuses on his life being changed forever ... over the loss of Elise, his hatred toward himself, his hatred towards God as a result of that event, and he alludes to this other reason for this anger but he can't discuss it with her and it happened 20 years ago," Miller said.

When Roberts spoke with his wife by cell phone from inside the school, more than half an hour after he had walked in, he "told her he had molested two minor relatives 20 years prior and that was how she put all of that together," Miller said.

The girls were shot "execution style" shortly after police arrived, Miller said, and Roberts was dead by the time officers broke windows to get inside. It was the nation's third deadly school shooting in less than a week.

Miller identified the victims, two of whom died on Tuesday, as Naomi Rose Ebersole, 7; Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12; Marian Fisher, 13; Mary Liz Miller, 8; and her sister Lina Miller, 7.

Five other children remained hospitalized, four of them in critical condition.

State police spokeswoman Linette Quinn said the two girls who died early Tuesday had suffered "very severe injuries, but the other ones are coming along very well."

Roberts, a father of three from the nearby town of Bart, was not Amish and did not appear to be targeting the Amish specifically, Miller said. He said Roberts seemed bent on killing young girls and apparently figured he could succeed at the lightly guarded schoolhouse.

10/3/2006 11:47:37 EDT

http://articles.news..id=NWS00010000000001

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At 10/3/06 01:22 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 10/3/06 11:28 AM, BeFell wrote: Perhaps you would like to adopt England's gun laws, the strictest in the world I believe.

Britain has the strictest laws.

That's a graph for violent crime, not gun crime. The two are completely different.

compare the two nations gun death and the graph will look very different.

Perhaps the violent crime rate is so high because the criminals don't fear the people they are being violent to.

At 10/3/06 01:52 PM, Proteas wrote: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I can see how theoretically speaking, this is a good thing. And at the time this was written, the government was new, and possibly unstable.

But there are many 'Free States' around the world whose citizens don't feel the need to keep a militia. My own included.

Also, many Americans who are pro-gun, are also very patriotic (a generalisation? maybe...) and use the above quote to defend their right to bear arms whilst never actually believing their government would fuck them over, and are the first to criticise liberals who state that it might.

I stand by my opinion: I’m not American and don’t care if you have guns or not, but I just thought this was interesting.

At 10/3/06 01:59 PM, BeFell wrote: Perhaps the violent crime rate is so high because the criminals don't fear the people they are being violent to.

Speculation? Well i can speculate too:

Perhaps if they could easily get a gun, they wouldn't care if their victims had guns or not.

At 10/3/06 02:02 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote: I stand by my opinion: I’m not American and don’t care if you have guns or not, but I just thought this was interesting.

Interesting observation. But it should be noted that I've never met a conservative who trusted his government to truly do right by ANYONE, especially if the opposition was in power.

At 10/3/06 02:04 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 10/3/06 01:59 PM, BeFell wrote: Perhaps the violent crime rate is so high because the criminals don't fear the people they are being violent to.

Speculation? Well i can speculate too:

Perhaps if they could easily get a gun, they wouldn't care if their victims had guns or not.

Uh huh...

In 1987, two men assaulted Eric Butler, a 56-year-old British Petroleum executive, in a London subway car, trying to strangle him and smashing his head against the door. No one came to his aid. He later testified, ''My air supply was being cut off, my eyes became blurred, and I feared for my life.'' In desperation he unsheathed an ornamental sword blade in his walking stick and slashed at one of his attackers, stabbing the man in the stomach. The assailants were charged with wounding. Butler was tried and convicted of carrying an offensive weapon.

In 1994, an English homeowner, armed with a toy gun, managed to detain two burglars who had broken into his house, while he called the police. When the officers arrived they arrested the homeowner for using an imitation gun to put someone in fear. Parliament is now considering making imitation guns illegal.

http://www.allsafede..al/BritCrimeMyth.htm

At 10/3/06 12:23 PM, fallen-son wrote:

stop trying to rationalize gun violence.

As if any other violence is rational?

just because theres alot of fucked up shit in society already it doesnt mean we shouldnt try to eliminate the problems one by one, the fact that there are gun AND mcdicks AND cigarettes prooves that we need to do somthign about ALL OF THESE THINGS.

Yeah, alcohol is a huge problem. Let's deal with it one problem at a time. Abortion is a huge problem in society. Let's deal with it one problem at a time. Corruption is a huge deal. Let's deal with it one problem at a time.

And you're worried about guns, because your parents were too pussy to teach you?

At 10/3/06 01:22 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:
That's a graph for violent crime, not gun crime. The two are completely different.

What the fuck are you kooks talking about? Violence is violence is violence.

Does the motive change if a gun is being used?

Yes, your people are more prone to subjugation, the wars that born our own country proved that point beyond a doubt. Yes, you guys enjoy the higher violence and peace of mind knowing that you probably won't get a bullet on your way home from work. Great.

Do you support the Brady initiate to have guns banned on a worldwide basis?

At 10/3/06 03:43 PM, BeFell wrote: In August 1999, Tony Martin, a 55-year-old Norfolk farmer living alone in a shabby farmhouse, awakened to the sound of breaking glass as two professional burglars burst into his home. He had been robbed six times before but, like 70 percent of rural English villages, his had no police presence. He sneaked downstairs with a shotgun and shot at the intruders. Martin received life in prison for killing one burglar, 10 years for wounding the second, and 12 months for having an illegal shotgun.

I can't comment on the other two (like I even need to seeing as the examples came from a fucking commercial website selling shooting practice...) but this is not how it happened.

The house was so run down and was in such disarray that the burglars were under the impression it was abandoned, does this excuse their actions? No. Did they deserve to be shot at? No.

Tony Martin lay in wait, did not let them know of his presence, and shot one in the back as they were fleeing.

Also, seeing as he owned a farm, it would not be difficult for him to gain a firearms licence for the shotgun, for practical purposes.

Parliament is now considering making imitation guns illegal.

Bullshit.

At 10/3/06 03:56 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: What the fuck are you kooks talking about? Violence is violence is violence.

Wow, well done, you’ve got such a great talent for pointing out the bleeding obvious.

In relation to this topic….they are however, different.

Yes, your people are more prone to subjugation, the wars that born our own country proved that point beyond a doubt. Yes, you guys enjoy the higher violence and peace of mind knowing that you probably won't get a bullet on your way home from work. Great.

Nah, that’s not it: it’s just we don’t need a piece to feel like a man.

Do you support the Brady initiate to have guns banned on a worldwide basis?

Hell no, I might like to think I know what’s best for my nation, I’m not arrogant enough, unlike some folks here, to presume I know what’s best for others.

The situation in the US is very different for one….mainly, the populace already has a large amount of firearms.

10/2/06 04:40 PM, zeus-almighty wrote:

At 10/2/06 04:35 PM, Cereal wrote: well how did this 32 year old man get his hands on it then.

On another note. How in the hell did that canadian guy get his hands on a weapon in that monteal shooting? I thought they didnt have guns in canada.

Omg! You mean Canada's ban on guns didn't stop a violent attack?
You mean...crime actually exists outside the world of firearms?

I'm so surprised

At 10/3/06 12:32 AM, The-Bi99man wrote: But it wasn't commited by a student, which is what instantaneously comes to people's minds when they hear the term, "school shooting".

Then the flaw is with people's interpretation, and not with the term that is used.

It was a shooting. In a school. The fact even one person disputed the term is idiotic - the fact that many did is disturbing. This topic has more posts about 'it wasn't a student so it's not a school shooting' then about the actual shooting itself.

If it had happened in a laundromat, it might have been called the 'laundromat shooting'.
Would that term be faulty, too, because some imbecile out there assuimes that the shooter was someone washing clothes?

If ever in doubt, turn not to perception and interpretation....but to definition. Definitions do not yield, or waiver. Defintions are black and white. Definitions remains constant.
Either something is, or it is not.
If George Bush calls protesters 'terrorists'...turn to Webster's for the truth of the word.
If some foolish mind calls up the image of students shooting student everytime he hears the word 'school shooting'...do not blame the word, or phrase.

Never blame a misused word, or flawed perception. Simply blame the mind who was incapable of seeing the definition.

At 10/3/06 02:02 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 10/3/06 01:52 PM, Proteas wrote: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I can see how theoretically speaking, this is a good thing. And at the time this was written, the government was new, and possibly unstable.
But there are many 'Free States' around the world whose citizens don't feel the need to keep a militia. My own included.

Pffft. Good for you, and good for them.

They don't, however, have a constitution guaranteeing a right to a citizen militia.

Also, many Americans who are pro-gun, are also very patriotic (a generalisation? maybe...)

Yes. A major generalization.

At 10/2/06 04:07 PM, Jose wrote: Parents don't know how to take responsibility for their kids anymore. Attack the problem, not the symptom. Start putting metal detectors in schools and arming security officers in the school.

dont forget to make the guards cold blooded, if some kid is shootin they gotta be able to kill him or her in a second

At 10/2/06 05:02 PM, RedSkunk wrote: I think the connection with all of these is that the shooters are males. I think they should be called male shootings. Or gun shootings, since they all used guns.

If your a chick then you are a total sexist bitch, thats right, and i wish I couls say it to your face, you sexist bitch

getting shot hurts

Ok this might sound nasty and sadistic... But what would the world be without tragedies... I was really exited about reading this. School shootings are so complex. They have a lot of depth and are really interesting to read about. The fact that they let some live and not others is pretty exiting to me.

it's quite sad though when you consider it in a real, down-to-earth way. It's had to make out the boundary of what is real. What is real just tends to be what is relevant to you.

At 10/7/06 11:40 AM, LolOutLoud wrote: ...and are really interesting to read about.

Couldnt you just read some about warhammer instead? If all you want is to read something interesting it might aswell be fictional.

At 10/7/06 11:55 AM, The-Stefan wrote:

At 10/7/06 11:40 AM, LolOutLoud wrote: ...and are really interesting to read about.

Couldnt you just read some about warhammer instead? If all you want is to read something interesting it might aswell be fictional.

But think about it... You were probably NEVER going to know these people ever existed and vice versa. Their lives probably wouldn't have the slightest effect on yours. It's pretty much like feeling sad for the people who never existed.

Ok, that is really inhumane... I do feel compassion towards my fellow man... But to recieve this compassion I must KNOW that they exist in the first place.