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At 7/1/07 05:28 PM, azwsxdcrfv wrote: how many sites did you submit it to.

Not many at all, it got front page here on NG and after that it appeared on flash sites everywhere. If only I had a website so I could've linked to it in the flash.. :P

RE: Ebaums still an issue

At 7/1/07 05:14 PM, DFox wrote: It started because a kid released a movie without any links to his site, credits, sponsorship, etc. That's simply what I call bad parenting. Just because it's on the computer doesn't mean his parents shouldn't have stepped in and said "hey, maybe you should get some links in this to your site and give yourself some credit."

And then everyone jumps on Ebaumsworld for offering him money... Did the 1,000 other sites that used it without permission offer him money? Of course not.

I would say about 95% of the Flash developers who actually get a game on Ebaumsworld (which is very, very, very few) would agree that it is a blessing if you set the Flash up right. If you have a link to your site in your Flash and it gets on Ebaumsworld, you're guaranteed a very nice traffic slow for a very nice amount of time. Ebaumsworld is still one of the top refferers to my site and the game that I got on there was posted over a year ago.

So, the only people who should be issuing public apologies are the people who gave Ebaumsworld a bad name.

I agree about the whole eBaums thing turning into a bandwagon with people who really have little relation to actually creating Flash, and there are plenty of similar, and recently, worse sites, so singling them out not longer makes much sense, but these sites as a good thing? Nope. I'm not buying it.

I have no doubt that there are benefits for Flash authors in getting as much distribution as possible - hell, I've experienced them too - but that doesn't mean that we have to abandon whatever sense of justice we have and actually try to support them. Do content stealing sites care that you're benefiting slightly? It's doubtful. Even if they did, it clearly wasn't enough to so much as send you an e-mail informing you of what was going on with your game. Whatever good may come to you as an author is entirely accidental.

Should authors be expected to layer links to their websites all over their work? No way. That's something you learn to do as you gain experience. If you were a new author with little experience on viral spreading of Flash content, could you really be expected to assume that some fucker would rip it and stick it on a page with eighteen banner ads and four popups with out so much as sending you some contact information? Or would you just assume that people would see you credited at the site you submitted to? The only reason that content stealing sites are seen as acceptable and inevitable is because we have allowed them to be so; we've accepted them.

Now, as an author you probably want to see your work viewed as much as possible. But just stop for a second and look at the current state of affairs. Hundereds, if not thousands, of sites; all almost identical; all featuring exactly the same content; all competing for ad revenue and every single one representing a fraction of the viewing public. They advertise 'ten new games added every weekday', achieving this by simply ripping ten games off from each other and the small percentage of sites which actually ask for permission or only accept content submitted by its creator. Is this really the ideal state of affairs? Is it even close?

It's not realistic to expect sites with their cynical 'ten a day' quotas to ask for permission for every single game they host, even if it's nice to think that maybe the people who actually put work into Flash could be in control, but damnit, even an e-mail along the lines of 'we are hosting x at y.com. If you have any objections to our hosting, send us a message and we will remove it promptly' would be acceptable. Even a goddamn autoamated message. Is that too much to ask? Ten automated messages a day? Is that too much to ask of someone?

If you don't want your inbox flooded, you should be leaving some mark on your submissions for free distribution. That's cool. If you're wanting to see your submission spread as much as possible, that's up to you. Hell, I'll be the first to use one. But don't assume for one second that shameless, cold, uncaring stealing of content is somehow the default state of affairs. There is no way that stealing without any indication of the author's wishes can possibly be considered 'a good thing'.

Content stealing may be very much a part of the internet - it may well be something that more experienced authors have learned to deal with, but don't for one second claim that it's somehow right or acceptable. There's a clear line between what's realistic and what's acceptable.

RE: Ebaums still an issue

At 7/1/07 06:12 PM, Paranoia wrote: Content stealing may be very much a part of the internet - it may well be something that more experienced authors have learned to deal with, but don't for one second claim that it's somehow right or acceptable. There's a clear line between what's realistic and what's acceptable.

I agree with a lot of the points you made. Stealing games is obviously wrong, but I don't see how anyone can not see a way to profit off these people. Even newcomers should do a little research before publishing games. I mean they've played Flash games before... They have to be aware of what they've seen and at least know some of their options just from playing games.

RE: Ebaums still an issue

At 7/1/07 06:31 PM, DFox wrote: I agree with a lot of the points you made. Stealing games is obviously wrong, but I don't see how anyone can not see a way to profit off these people. Even newcomers should do a little research before publishing games. I mean they've played Flash games before... They have to be aware of what they've seen and at least know some of their options just from playing games.

They may well have the chance to be aware of the opportunities they have, but then again they may not. Either way there's no reason that anyone should expect them to be. The Flash scene should be all about the developers - not about sites cock slapping each other to try and get the maximum ad revenue while seeing developers as little more than Flash producing robots to be stolen from whenever it suits the hosts.

RE: Ebaums still an issue

At 7/1/07 06:35 PM, Paranoia wrote: They may well have the chance to be aware of the opportunities they have, but then again they may not. Either way there's no reason that anyone should expect them to be. The Flash scene should be all about the developers - not about sites cock slapping each other to try and get the maximum ad revenue while seeing developers as little more than Flash producing robots to be stolen from whenever it suits the hosts.

I agree 100%... All I'm getting at is this isn't the perfect world. Sites steal content. Until someone steps up and finds a way to stop it, people need to take advantage of it. In the ideal world sites would ask permission, so the people who wanted their content on other sites would get it on other sites and the people who didn't would simply be able to say no. So we can either say let's not even try to benefit off the content stealing because of principle, or we can at least make money off the unfortunate thing going on. I mean no one would ever dispute that fact that it would benefit EVERYONE if sites asked permission, because even people like me who like my content on other sites would still get it on the other sites...

wtf?
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=72 7621

RE: Flash Stealing
I only originally submitted Exorbis to Newgrounds, within a week it was on more than 50 different sites, and only 2 or 3 of them asked. I was kind of annoyed at first, but then I realised I don't really care, it's not like I'm losing anything, I already had my bag of money from the sponsor... I also noticed half of the sites were non-English, which I thought was kind of cool, that everyone can understand my game even if they can't neccessarily read the instructions.

Does anyone know if Hallpass.com is user-submitted content? Because if that's so, then someone took credit for my work, and that's the only site I'd be annoyed with...

Unititled
I just wrote, like, 200 lines of Actionscript, and I cannae get it to work :(

At 7/1/07 06:55 PM, edit-undo wrote: RE: Flash Stealing

Does anyone know if Hallpass.com is user-submitted content? Because if that's so, then someone took credit for my work, and that's the only site I'd be annoyed with...

Because they sponsored one of my flashes I had to upload it then they would feature it, but I had to upload it first.

I would think someone stole it, but I can tell you that HallPass are very trustworthy, and I'm 99% percent sure they were'nt involved.

..::Sonx::..

At 7/1/07 06:54 PM, Edvin wrote: wtf?
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=72 7621

Sonx is fine, he's just waiting for his epic 9,000th post.

At 7/1/07 07:02 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: ..::Sonx::..

At 7/1/07 06:54 PM, Edvin wrote: wtf?
http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic.php?id=72 7621

Sonx is fine, he's just waiting for his epic 9,000th post.

I think a mod should delete a random post of his so we can clarify he's alife as well as keeping his dignety(sp?)

RE: Sonx

At 7/1/07 07:05 PM, crushy wrote: I think a mod should delete a random post of his so we can clarify he's alife as well as keeping his dignety(sp?)

*gasp!* A mod would never abuse their power in such a way....

Although, we should totally ban him after his 9000th post. lol, no stat threads >:)

At 7/1/07 07:08 PM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote:
Although, we should totally ban him after his 9000th post. lol, no stat threads >:)

Heh, ruining his moment is vital

onReadPost { if (sonx == dead) { trace "RIP Sonx :(" ; } else { trace "It would have been the hardest to read suicide note anyways" }

But in all seriousness, I'll totally feel like a deush if he's really dead :O

At 7/1/07 07:36 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: ..::Sonx::..

He's not dead...
he's undead, apparently. =O

'twas just deleted.

At 7/1/07 07:41 PM, Penboy wrote:
'twas just deleted.

What was deleted?

At 7/1/07 07:44 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote:

At 7/1/07 07:41 PM, Penboy wrote:
'twas just deleted.

What was deleted?

I must be seeing things ._.

At 7/1/07 07:51 PM, Penboy wrote:
I must be seeing things ._.

Indeed you must. =]

So YOU say...

At 7/1/07 08:21 PM, azwsxdcrfv wrote: So YOU say...

You might wanna finish ur sentence, pal...

Who else in this world can say they've seen Motley Crue, Megadeth and Chaz n' Dave all in the same month ey?

Download festival,
then Cardiff Millenium stadium for the Speedway.

Animating

It's too hard and requires too much patience >:(
Here's that blueberry movie i started like a year ago and never finished
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/386323

I used to love animating, now it feels like tedious chore. I'd much rather do a digital painting than an animation now.

At 7/1/07 10:41 PM, mynamewontfitin wrote: I used to love animating, now it feels like tedious chore. I'd much rather do a digital painting than an animation now.

pfft, traitor >.>

At 7/1/07 10:41 PM, mynamewontfitin wrote: It's too hard and requires too much patience >:(
Here's that blueberry movie i started like a year ago and never finished
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/386323

Thats good. :D

I used to love animating, now it feels like tedious chore. I'd much rather do a digital painting than an animation now.

And i agree with you completely.

At 7/1/07 10:41 PM, mynamewontfitin wrote: Animating

It's too hard and requires too much patience >:(
Here's that blueberry movie i started like a year ago and never finished
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/386323

I used to love animating, now it feels like tedious chore. I'd much rather do a digital painting than an animation now.

To each his own, both of them are really fun, but very different. Paintings/or single pieces are great for keeping your attention span rooted the entire time, but animations are really a test. Anyways, I loved the art you had throughout your little movie there - would've loved to see you finish though.

Completely understand about the whole patience thing though - but at least I still get to see your paintings and all their greatness.

At 7/1/07 10:55 PM, ConAir wrote: To each his own, both of them are really fun, but very different. Paintings/or single pieces are great for keeping your attention span rooted the entire time, but animations are really a test. Anyways, I loved the art you had throughout your little movie there - would've loved to see you finish though.

Completely understand about the whole patience thing though - but at least I still get to see your paintings and all their greatness.

Thanks ConAir. I wish I could finish it too but I know I never will. It's just too late. Animation is what got me into the whole "digital art scene" in the first place so I don't regret ever trying it but it made me realize that I definitely don't want to be a cartoonist for a living. :D

..::animating/static art::..

Nice animation, MNWFI.

Yeah, animating can really wear you down, especially if you have an impossible standard set for yourself. I'm never satisfied with anything I make, I want things to be just so and when they're not I get really stressed about it. Part of the reason I haven't finished anything worthwhile in ages.

Oh well, now I have the BBS to play with, we'll see how long that keeps my attention.

At 7/1/07 11:20 PM, SeanJoystick wrote: I hope that wins an award, but most likely some game(s) that was thrown together in five minutes will take its place because the shallow public vote without watching.
Anyhow it was a pretty stiff but reminds me a lot of a truffleclock movie (which is good). :)

no subject title on this post because its pretty gay

They look when they vote, they just don't vote the way we want them to >_>

Flash 10

When will this come out? I hate CS3, and Flash 8 has many limitations. I hope Adobe fixes the problems it had with CS3 and makes Flash 10 the best 2D animating program. BTW, what happened to Macromedia? Why did they sell Flash >:(