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MSGhero
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 15th, 2012 @ 01:41 AM Reply

At 11/14/12 11:40 PM, MSGhero wrote: Alpha map-based bitmapdata collisions...though it's kinda wonky since the sprites from the spritesheet change dimensions a bit when I use a rotated one (premade rotation sprites).

The wonk is coming from certain stuff not being at a y coordinate divisible by 4. I hope.

Meanwhile, school keeps me very busy. Last test for a while today, though :D

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 15th, 2012 @ 08:30 AM Reply

At 11/15/12 01:41 AM, MSGhero wrote: The wonk is coming from certain stuff not being at a y coordinate divisible by 4. I hope.

What in the world are you doing? O.o

Meanwhile, school keeps me very busy. Last test for a while today, though :D

mm, I still have homework due by Sunday that I haven't even started yet...


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 15th, 2012 @ 11:16 AM Reply

At 11/15/12 08:30 AM, egg82 wrote: What in the world are you doing? O.o

The background and characters are all from spritesheets (blitted), so the only reasonable way to do collisions is with an alpha map, the city map abstracted to colors. Transparent means walkable, red is a wall or something, yellow is a door, etc. Then I test the corners of the sprite's rectangle with alpha map.getPixel32() to see what's going on. It's just glitchy if the y coordinate isn't divisible by 4 because he'll move past the boundary and then check getPixel32, which would cause problems when he turns and is partially stuck in a tree.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 15th, 2012 @ 02:20 PM Reply

I've been thinking on and off about why there is no service to let indie web game developers build games and then sell them online? Do you guys think anyone would pay for high quality content if it was in a web browser ? I think the world as a whole is becoming more comfortable with buying digital content. I am just thinking it would be neat if there was a steam-like service online that showcased quality games, and gave the developers the option of selling them for a small fee. What do you guys think about this ?


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 15th, 2012 @ 02:58 PM Reply

I think the idea of a Steam like platform for selling Flash games is a great idea, but it will never work.

The problem is that there is so much competition in terms of free games that it would be really hard to attract people to your pay only game. I think another big problem is that a very large percentage of casual gamers are pre-teens that both don't have jobs and have no concept of having to pay rent and thus they don't care if the dev makes any money or not.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 15th, 2012 @ 03:11 PM Reply

At 11/15/12 02:58 PM, pirateplatypus wrote: I think the idea of a Steam like platform for selling Flash games is a great idea, but it will never work.

The problem is that there is so much competition in terms of free games that it would be really hard to attract people to your pay only game. I think another big problem is that a very large percentage of casual gamers are pre-teens that both don't have jobs and have no concept of having to pay rent and thus they don't care if the dev makes any money or not.

Yeah micro transactions, downloadable content, and crowd funding seem to be the hot ways of making money with games these days. Lure them in with free to play, then ask money from them. Besides if you make a good enough game or series you'll be able to ask money for it.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 16th, 2012 @ 06:44 PM Reply

At 11/15/12 02:58 PM, pirateplatypus wrote: I think the idea of a Steam like platform for selling Flash games is a great idea, but it will never work.

I think having a platform for distributing flash games with Steam being so popular is a little redundant. Generally if your game is high enough quality to be sold for money, it is perfectly capable of getting onto Steam. Of course, some developers who make high quality flash games want them to be free anyway, thus the internet already fills that niche.

It does beat the current model of money through sponsorship, which seems to me to be tapering off, so maybe there is a market for a distribution platform for small-time flash game developers who can no longer, or don't want to, rely on sponsors. I still feel a slight negative reaction towards people who try to charge people for flash games on par with the quality of free online games, but I now realize that the developers are trying to make a buck either way so maybe the players should be the ones paying up?


:U

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 17th, 2012 @ 10:01 AM Reply

At 11/16/12 06:44 PM, Josh-B wrote: Generally if your game is high enough quality to be sold for money, it is perfectly capable of getting onto Steam.

steam is extremely overloaded with indies lately and they made greenlight as a result, if you wanna get on steam now you pretty much have to go through greenlight, which is more effort than "just" making a good game, you need to get a good following too (which to be fair, is made easier with flash games since they spread virally)

also, people won't pay for flash games from a flash game portal, hell they whine and complain when flash games show up on steam as it is

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 19th, 2012 @ 08:11 AM Reply

I've been having several dates with procedural generation, and as a result made 2 small libraries, 1 for L-Systems, and another for DLAs (Diffused Limited Aggregation). L-Systems is a simple concept, basically you define a set of rules, like replace X with F[+XF]-[F] and F with FF or something like that, then you start with X, and just iterate over a few generations. Very quickly things can add up, and a result could be the plant (first pic). Really cool stuff.

Now for DLAs, those are also really cool, and again, a very simple underlying concept. Basically you have an origin and a target boundary, and you generate particles from the origin, and have them move randomly. If a particle touches the boundary or another particle that has already frozen, the particle freezes. This way the particles build up around the boundaries. I read about this using pixels and shit, but I thought making a geometric library would be better just so that it's not tied to a specific platform or something.

Anyways, enough blabbing, here are some cool pics. The first is a plant made with L-Systems, and the rules being interpreted like this:
F = draw forward
-/+ = turn left/right 25°
[/] = push/pop the current position
The 2nd pic is a DLA system with a circular boundary, and the 3rd is with a rectangular boundary.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 05:36 AM Reply

At 11/19/12 08:11 AM, PSvils wrote: Anyways, enough blabbing, here are some cool pics. The first is a plant made with L-Systems, and the rules being interpreted like this:
F = draw forward
-/+ = turn left/right 25Ã'°
[/] = push/pop the current position
The 2nd pic is a DLA system with a circular boundary, and the 3rd is with a rectangular boundary.

You know, you're always working on these really cool stuff! And I think about awesome games could be if flash programmers started getting more competent in their programming, because if you look at programmers in like C++ or something, you could see people building these really amazing stuff, like these lighting techniques and smooth 3D animation or whatever, but that's normal cuz what the top end C++ games do blows away all that.

But with flash games, very rarely do you see someone get out of their programming comfort zone, and when they do it usually results in something pretty new and fantastic.

Like that game, e7, that made elastic terrain. And the fact that very little games have good path finding. So it's like there's a lot of room to innovate.

So I just got this idea, what if we make like, these "Code Challenges", where every week or so we announce a challenge, and people try to do it and post their code. This could be really fun but it could also be really useful for the flash community as a whole.

I remember a while ago on the mochi forums, someone posted asking how e7 made elastic terrain, and not many people could answer, but then a few people started coming up with different solutions. So whether people participate or just watch, this could maybe encourage flash programmers to try new/innovative things, and if someone's a really great game designer, but isn't the best programmer (there's a lot of those) he might see a really cool effect another programmer made, but the programmer didn't really know what to do with it. So it would collectively make flash games better!

Thoughts?

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 06:37 AM Reply

At 11/22/12 05:36 AM, 4urentertainment wrote: So I just got this idea, what if we make like, these "Code Challenges", where every week or so we announce a challenge, and people try to do it and post their code. This could be really fun but it could also be really useful for the flash community as a whole.

I discussed this idea with mike a few weeks ago. I can think of at least half a dozen people on here who would be up for that. Are you volunteering to host? :-)


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 10:54 AM Reply

At 11/22/12 05:36 AM, 4urentertainment wrote: Thoughts?

I like the meaning behind the idea, but you should take a look at the idea more closely.

How would it be any more different than the Game Jams or the occasional ASWars?
How would it work? Is there a theme? Time limit? What are the rules?
How would you make it a popular idea? What would you do to make it appeal to enough people to get good participation from the many people who are just starting AS3 to the few AS3 gurus we have here?


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 11:16 AM Reply

At 11/22/12 10:54 AM, egg82 wrote: How would it be any more different than the Game Jams or the occasional ASWars?

Game jams are about prototyping game ideas.

ASWars are (mostly) about artificial intelligence and bots.

These code challenges would focus on programming specific mechanics.

How would it work? Is there a theme? Time limit? What are the rules?

The difference from all the above mentioned events, is that it's not a contest. There's never a clear winner. A mechanic would be announced and described, like "elastic terrain" for example. And then programmers would have say, a week to try and create this effect.

But since there are many different ways to do anything, like someone could make a terrain that's super realistic and hyper-advanced, but someone else does it in a more crude way that turns out to be a lot more fun.

How would you make it a popular idea? What would you do to make it appeal to enough people to get good participation from the many people who are just starting AS3 to the few AS3 gurus we have here?

So it's really all about challenging those people who can, and inspiring those who can't. The beauty is that even if like 3 people join the first event, it'd be just as good as long as you end up with a working prototype.

The most important thing is that people would be heavily encouraged to share their source code. So even a novice programmer could scroll through the competitions and perhaps end up learning something, and maybe making an awesome new kind of game.

This would ideally be a site-independent thing. Like even if it starts on Newgrounds it could have a separate website where you could easily browse the archives.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 11:30 AM Reply

At 11/22/12 10:54 AM, egg82 wrote:
At 11/22/12 05:36 AM, 4urentertainment wrote: Thoughts?
I like the meaning behind the idea, but you should take a look at the idea more closely.

How would it be any more different than the Game Jams or the occasional ASWars?
How would it work? Is there a theme? Time limit? What are the rules?
How would you make it a popular idea? What would you do to make it appeal to enough people to get good participation from the many people who are just starting AS3 to the few AS3 gurus we have here?

I don't know that we need participation from beginners. The point of this is to have people challenged with complicated tasks that would require a lot of thinking and hopefully creative solutions. Watching a beginner to challenge himself with making a ball bounce up and down wouldn't exactly be exciting.

We've had quite a number of such challenge threads on the NG BBS already. We had an optimization battle, and we've had a couple were we just come up with random challenges and selected programmers attempt to solve them. No theme, no rules particularly. Just a generous amount of time for 2 or more people to compete against each other in a challenge.

As for how it's different from AS: Wars, well .. AS: Wars are about constructing a bot that competes against others in an arena (and in almost all past cases it's been a small circle/square that moves/shoots/heals). This is just a challenge thread. The challenges can go as far as your imagination does. It could pertain to immense notions like generating endless galaxies or cities that run themselves, or it could be more physical and precise like simulating unusual matter like fluids and elastic objects. Frankly I'm as excited to find out about challenge ideas as I am to do the challenges themselves. I hope people can come up with really fun subjects.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 11:43 AM Reply

I absolutely love the idea of these "Code Challenges" or whatever you want to call them. I personally think it would be quite inspirational for anyone, and a great learning/experimenting experience. That's one thing I never get around to doing... just fiddling around with mechanics.

If this actually happens and turns out well, it would be neat to make a game which incorporates several concepts from these challenges :P

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 11:51 AM Reply

At 11/22/12 11:16 AM, 4urentertainment wrote: These code challenges would focus on programming specific mechanics.

ah, making bits of a full engine. I could see a lot of people getting involved if it lasted a little. Less than a week, but more than two days. Maybe four or five days? Four sounds like it would be better, but five's easier to remember.

The difference from all the above mentioned events, is that it's not a contest. There's never a clear winner. A mechanic would be announced and described, like "elastic terrain" for example. And then programmers would have say, a week to try and create this effect.

hmm... So what benefit does, say, a busy programmer gain if they were to enter this? I know one or two programmers who are very good at what they do and have a lot to offer, but if there's nothing in it for them they won't do it.
One of the reasons the Game Jams are successful is because people actually win money. It kills two birds with one stone: The psychological aspect (hey, look what I did!) and the more practical side of things (yay, I has money!)

But since there are many different ways to do anything, like someone could make a terrain that's super realistic and hyper-advanced, but someone else does it in a more crude way that turns out to be a lot more fun.

that'll happen no matter the contest/competition/whatever is made. It's one of the most interesting aspects :P

The most important thing is that people would be heavily encouraged to share their source code. So even a novice programmer could scroll through the competitions and perhaps end up learning something, and maybe making an awesome new kind of game.

I like this! :3

This would ideally be a site-independent thing. Like even if it starts on Newgrounds it could have a separate website where you could easily browse the archives.

I like this, too, but I think until we can see a clear direction, it should go on a newspost.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

it's fine, man! I like the idea :P
but that does bring up two questions:
1. How are you going to start this, and get enough people in the first challenge to get people to recognize its potential?
2. What are you going to name it? Something easy to remember and at last somewhat self-explanatory, but also sounds cool and/or interesting.

("The Challenge"? - that brings the interest level to a full max, is easy to remember, and is pretty self-explanatory, but i'm not sure how well that would go in regular conversation)

the biggest challenge of making these kinds of things is that nobody ever gets involved.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 11:57 AM Reply

At 11/22/12 11:30 AM, Toast wrote: I don't know that we need participation from beginners. The point of this is to have people challenged with complicated tasks that would require a lot of thinking and hopefully creative solutions. Watching a beginner to challenge himself with making a ball bounce up and down wouldn't exactly be exciting.

i'd have to disagree with this. What were to happen if we told everyone entering the Game Jams that only experienced people were allowed to enter?
besides, how would you define "experienced"?

The thing is, the more experienced you get, the more you recognize a comfort zone, and the more you want to stay in that zone. A newbie doesn't have a comfort zone, and thus can challenge themselves in ways and think of things we never realized before.
That's pretty much what this challenge is about.

Limiting the number of people limits the number of minds limits the number of ideas.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 12:07 PM Reply

You're putting too much thought into this. If your super-good AS3 friends want not join, they need not join. Advertising, prize money, and in general attracting people to the challenges is not something I'd be preoccupied about, in my eyes the purpose here is just to stir up a little fun and activity (along with mental challenges) among NG regs. I'd be happy enough with 5-6 people participating. For reference, here's a code battle we had in 2006.

So what do you guys say we fire up a thread with the first couple of challenges this weekend? :-)

At 11/22/12 11:51 AM, egg82 wrote:
At 11/22/12 11:16 AM, 4urentertainment wrote: These code challenges would focus on programming specific mechanics.
ah, making bits of a full engine. I could see a lot of people getting involved if it lasted a little. Less than a week, but more than two days. Maybe four or five days? Four sounds like it would be better, but five's easier to remember.

The difference from all the above mentioned events, is that it's not a contest. There's never a clear winner. A mechanic would be announced and described, like "elastic terrain" for example. And then programmers would have say, a week to try and create this effect.
hmm... So what benefit does, say, a busy programmer gain if they were to enter this? I know one or two programmers who are very good at what they do and have a lot to offer, but if there's nothing in it for them they won't do it.
One of the reasons the Game Jams are successful is because people actually win money. It kills two birds with one stone: The psychological aspect (hey, look what I did!) and the more practical side of things (yay, I has money!)

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 12:24 PM Reply

At 11/22/12 11:57 AM, egg82 wrote: Limiting the number of people limits the number of minds limits the number of ideas.

I don't think Toast meant we wouldn't allow novice programmers as much as he meant that this wouldn't be geared towards them. Like the challenges would naturally be challenging, anyone can enter and although inexperienced programmers may find themselves in over their heads, sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. Occam's razor. As I said, maybe someone makes something super awesome, but someone else makes a dumbed down version that ends up being practical for game designers to use!

As for your ongoing question about how to get people interested, just like you would do for a game jam, you'd just post it, people see it and participate. It doesn't matter if we only have a handful of people first, as it would quickly grow and so on and so forth.

hmm... So what benefit does, say, a busy programmer gain if they were to enter this?

The thing about a monetary prize is that it's usually very arbitrary. The $300 prize of game jams, split between four members, is really peanuts. Or rather, it's more sentimental. These challenges would likely be completed in a few hours to a day. The only reason the deadline is a week is to give people time to see it and come up with something. There should also be no limit as to whether you want to submit something to an old event.

This is not a contest. There are no winners. This is a project to encourage programmers who want to challenge themselves, but more important, to amass a library of these cool open-source mechanics, and inject new ideas into the flash industry.

There seems to be enough support. I'll see if I can kickstart something soon, and we'll see how it goes!

And note that you don't need a monetary prize to entice people to enter. Look at ludum dare, and look at all the awesome things that come out of it.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 01:02 PM Reply

You guys have all sorts of fun while I'm asleep. As long as we do them somewhat often (like I can skip one and not have to wait 2 months to try another), then this would be great! Comment and asdoc your code heavily so everyone can learn from it.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 22nd, 2012 @ 01:09 PM Reply

At 11/22/12 12:24 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: The thing about a monetary prize is that it's usually very arbitrary. The $300 prize of game jams, split between four members, is really peanuts.

though I think you're probably right, i'd just like to point out that you're talking to a guy so broke his money needs money. I personally wouldn't mind getting any cash for something i'm normally doing for free.

and like I said, I know one person who could whip up one of the best platform engines you've ever seen in two days, but there's a very good chance he won't do it for free. I'd just like to see something that he (and others like him) would enter that actually benefits other people instead of just showing off skills.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 27th, 2012 @ 06:27 PM Reply

I started making this game for fuck this jam, but I didn't finish in time. I am going to try to finish it now. It's a farmville style game where you are trying to survive through a summer in the great famine. It might be boring. I'm not sure yet.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 27th, 2012 @ 07:30 PM Reply

At 11/27/12 06:27 PM, PrettyMuchBryce wrote: I started making this game for fuck this jam, but I didn't finish in time. I am going to try to finish it now. It's a farmville style game where you are trying to survive through a summer in the great famine. It might be boring. I'm not sure yet.

ooh, cool! 3D, or 2.5D?
what makes it different from Farmville? Or is it just a clone? :P


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 27th, 2012 @ 08:19 PM Reply

At 11/27/12 07:30 PM, egg82 wrote: ooh, cool! 3D, or 2.5D?
what makes it different from Farmville? Or is it just a clone? :P

Who knows. Were all just making clones of clones of clones at this point. Fuck this jam was about making a game in a genre you hate. Basically I'm thinking the gameplay loop is something like

Sell Potatoes
Buy seeds, water, food
Plant seeds, tend to plants, feed family (if your family dies you lose), avoid or discard of predators,
Repeat

but this might chance once it's working and I decide that isn't fun.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 29th, 2012 @ 12:50 AM Reply

At 11/27/12 06:27 PM, PrettyMuchBryce wrote: I started making this game for fuck this jam, but I didn't finish in time. I am going to try to finish it now. It's a farmville style game where you are trying to survive through a summer in the great famine. It might be boring. I'm not sure yet.

I was gonna do fuck this jam too but I ended up having to port closure to linux instead. Well I hate linux so it sorta fits the theme. Anyway I like the concept I was GONNA do enough for fuck this jam to actually start working on it now instead, its neat, and the playable character of the game is a fungus (an actual fungus not a humanoid one with legs).

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 29th, 2012 @ 12:06 PM Reply

At 11/29/12 12:50 AM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: I was gonna do fuck this jam too but I ended up having to port closure to linux instead. Well I hate linux so it sorta fits the theme. Anyway I like the concept I was GONNA do enough for fuck this jam to actually start working on it now instead, its neat, and the playable character of the game is a fungus (an actual fungus not a humanoid one with legs).

why do you hate coding for Linux? Just package it into a (mostly) universal tarball. If someone's using Linux, they're not a complete idiot and can figure out how to install it.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 29th, 2012 @ 02:06 PM Reply

Happy User of the Day to KaynSlamdyke ...where ever he may be!

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Nov. 29th, 2012 @ 02:28 PM Reply

At 11/29/12 02:06 PM, ReNaeNae wrote: Happy User of the Day to KaynSlamdyke ...where ever he may be!

5000 posts even. Something you don't see every day.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Dec. 2nd, 2012 @ 02:31 PM Reply

At 11/29/12 02:06 PM, ReNaeNae wrote: Happy User of the Day to KaynSlamdyke ...where ever he may be!

Hopefully he found employment somewhere nice :)


- Matt, Rustyarcade.com

I-smel
I-smel
  • Member since: Mar. 2, 2006
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Game Developer
Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge Dec. 3rd, 2012 @ 09:57 PM Reply

I only noticed Fuck This Jam had started 2 days after it finished :/
For everyone who dislikes horrible time-sink iOS games: Download Little Inferno. It's about that concept.

Also I got greenlit on Steam this week, :brag: :smug:
Don't repurpose a flash game as a desktop download, it's a fucking pain in the dick.