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Sam
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-10 22:26:34 Reply

At 6/10/11 09:28 PM, Innermike wrote:
At 6/10/11 07:41 PM, Doomsday-One wrote: you can mess about with variables using slider bars!
NOWAIRLY???

Mike swoops in to destroy the meaningful discussion!

It's super effective
Gimmick
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-11 01:09:15 Reply

At 6/10/11 07:41 PM, Doomsday-One wrote: For example, you can mess about with variables using slider bars!

So, what about it?


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Doomsday-One
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-11 06:16:19 Reply

At 6/11/11 01:09 AM, Sanjeev98 wrote:
At 6/10/11 07:41 PM, Doomsday-One wrote: For example, you can mess about with variables using slider bars!
So, what about it?

It's nifty!
As I said, not a required feature, but it feels so much easier testing things by moving a bar or selecting an object from a list rather than going into the code and typing these things out.
And, as I also said, it is probably much less intimidating for non-programmers working with various classes.

To clarify, I'm not saying I'm gonna drop everything Flash and move to Unity just for slidey bars, but I am saying that Flash has always needed better integration with code, and Unity provides a strong example of how to do it.


Doomsday-One, working on stuff better than preloaders. Marginally.

Innermike
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-11 09:00:59 Reply

At 6/10/11 10:26 PM, Sam wrote:
At 6/10/11 09:28 PM, Innermike wrote:
At 6/10/11 07:41 PM, Doomsday-One wrote: you can mess about with variables using slider bars!
NOWAIRLY???
Mike swoops in to destroy the meaningful discussion!

Meh, it's not that meaningful, we've had fucktons of threads exactly like this and almost every possible opinion, idea and prediction has been exhausted, I don't know why people feel the need to revisit the same thing. But hell, if you want I'll go along with the charade.

I'm still worried about the unity export to flash, if I have to write in actionscript then I don't see the value, but if the code conversion from C# to AS3 at compile time is shit (ala AS3 to iPhone via CS5/5.5) then that's a disappointment too, from what I've experienced with unity I think it's very good, I think unity, flash and javascript drawn to HTML5s canvas should be kept for their separate uses, namely varying agrees of intensity in whatever it is you're doing online in descending order, and whoever said that "everyone said HTML5 would kill flash, where is that?" you have to remember that A. It's not even finished B. People haven't had enough access to resources to decide whether to reject it or not, you can't rule it out as a possibity or at least a viable replacement for the million+ battery devouring web players out there (enormous amounts of web traffic come from mobile devices and laptops so that is a big thing) though I suppose it would be limited to simple things like that because all the source would be on show and I doubt sponsors would pay tons for games anyone can copy :/ I don't think any one runtime should have a monopoly, after all, programmers love to complain about fragmentation then complain about lack of choices the next day.

Happy now Samuel?

nobody

I-smel
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-11 11:42:35 Reply

Flash might be a much simpler thing to get into, but most web games aren't coming from us Newgrounds doofs any more. It's 2011 and this is a MARKET now full o teams of 4 or 5 people in god-knows-where makin a serious living.

So if Unity's the next step up then it's not gonna scare people off if it's a bit harder to use.

Gimmick
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-11 12:14:35 Reply

At 6/11/11 06:16 AM, Doomsday-One wrote:
At 6/11/11 01:09 AM, Sanjeev98 wrote:
At 6/10/11 07:41 PM, Doomsday-One wrote: For example, you can mess about with variables using slider bars!
So, what about it?
It's nifty!
As I said, not a required feature, but it feels so much easier testing things by moving a bar or selecting an object from a list rather than going into the code and typing these things out.
And, as I also said, it is probably much less intimidating for non-programmers working with various classes.

To clarify, I'm not saying I'm gonna drop everything Flash and move to Unity just for slidey bars, but I am saying that Flash has always needed better integration with code, and Unity provides a strong example of how to do it.

I've always considered Unity, as it appeals to me, but I can't be arsed to learn another language and get used to Unity's interface when I can do almost the same stuff in another program.


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KaynSlamdyke
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-11 14:50:22 Reply

The main problem with Unity we've found is that doing anything with User Interfaces is nowhere near as easy as it is with Flash. To be fair, any UIs you have to create and modify using pure code are un-fun, but in Unity's case each UI element adds to the draw calls (which need to be saved for important things on iPhone development), and need to be exported "just so" otherwise they'll be treated like textures, and turned into Power of Two scale images (which are ugly).

I'm sure we'll spring for the third party Sprite Manager and UI Manager classes at some point for 2d imagery manipulation, but it's a shame there's not a simpler solution for managing UIs in Unity.


...

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Kirk-Cocaine
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-12 17:52:20 Reply

At 6/11/11 02:50 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: I'm sure we'll spring for the third party Sprite Manager and UI Manager classes at some point

Yeah, we've got the Sprite Manager 2 and EZGUI at work, both are shit hot.


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| AS3: Main | AS2: Main | Flash Tutorials |

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Kevin
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-12 23:09:23 Reply

Birth year/page post.

If anyone (no one) cares, I was looking into Unity a while back, but never bothered to go anywhere with it. Maybe I'll try to later or whatever.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-15 12:05:25 Reply

Stencyl

Is it my relative distance from Game Dev these past two years that caused me to overlook Stencyl? Or is my first impression of the program overestimating its capabilities? Recently NG teamed up with TGF, but if the rumors I've been picking up are anything to go by, Stencyl is a much better solution. Is this true? Has anyone managed to test it out? I'm looking to make a very basic RPG, more parts visual novel, and I'm currently inbetween RPG Maker VX and Stencyl, so I'm just looking to get a more informed, subjective opinion of the program.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-15 13:23:15 Reply

At 6/15/11 12:05 PM, Deathcon7 wrote: Stencyl

Is it my relative distance from Game Dev these past two years that caused me to overlook Stencyl? Or is my first impression of the program overestimating its capabilities? Recently NG teamed up with TGF, but if the rumors I've been picking up are anything to go by, Stencyl is a much better solution. Is this true? Has anyone managed to test it out? I'm looking to make a very basic RPG, more parts visual novel, and I'm currently inbetween RPG Maker VX and Stencyl, so I'm just looking to get a more informed, subjective opinion of the program.

Just be a man and program it yourself...
Your relative distance from Game Dev has kept you from discovering Actionscript 3.

Deathcon7
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-15 17:53:52 Reply

At 6/15/11 01:23 PM, PSvils wrote: Just be a man and program it yourself...
Your relative distance from Game Dev has kept you from discovering Actionscript 3.

I'll take your lack of tact as a lack of maturity. I appreciate your input, however. Perhaps I should improve my grasp of AS3, but there is no point re-inventing the wheel. If I can find a suitable API, and associated GUI, why shouldn't I use it to help expedite development?

4urentertainment
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-15 18:50:23 Reply

At 6/15/11 05:53 PM, Deathcon7 wrote: I'll take your lack of tact as a lack of maturity. I appreciate your input, however. Perhaps I should improve my grasp of AS3, but there is no point re-inventing the wheel. If I can find a suitable API, and associated GUI, why shouldn't I use it to help expedite development?

This reminds of an interesting discussion. I believe some people were pissed when that Game Factory 2 came out, because it enabled anyone without much grasp on programming to make a game when other, more competent people had to go through much more and use knowledge they worked hard to obtain to make something similar. But really, if there's an easier way to do whatever it is you're doing, then you should really be practical and use that method.

It's like, why make your own physics engine from scratch when there's perfectly good ones, and even better ones, out there? Why make your game in C++ while you're at it, and find some way to make it playable online, when you can just use Flash? I think that's a pretty bad example, but you can see my point.

As a general rule of thumb though, the more complicated something is to use, the less limited it is. It all just depends on what you want to do.

I-smel
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-15 19:22:41 Reply

At 6/11/11 12:14 PM, Sanjeev98 wrote: I've always considered Unity, as it appeals to me, but I can't be arsed to learn another language and get used to Unity's interface when I can do almost the same stuff in another program.

Oh the Unity site is just fucking FULL of tutorials, you should check it out.

At 6/15/11 06:50 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: This reminds of an interesting discussion. I believe some people were pissed when that Game Factory 2 came out, because it enabled anyone without much grasp on programming to make a game when other, more competent people had to go through much more and use knowledge they worked hard to obtain to make something similar. But really, if there's an easier way to do whatever it is you're doing, then you should really be practical and use that method.

It's like, why make your own physics engine from scratch when there's perfectly good ones, and even better ones, out there? Why make your game in C++ while you're at it, and find some way to make it playable online, when you can just use Flash? I think that's a pretty bad example, but you can see my point.

As a general rule of thumb though, the more complicated something is to use, the less limited it is. It all just depends on what you want to do.

god, whoever's saying that sounds like jerk. If your talent's in game design or animation, then you might aswell just jump onboard. Programming is a huge barrier for everyone.

PSvils
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-15 20:14:14 Reply

At 6/15/11 07:22 PM, I-smel wrote: god, whoever's saying that sounds like jerk. If your talent's in game design or animation, then you might aswell just jump onboard. Programming is a huge barrier for everyone.

I'm a disciple of the DUI. I mean DIY.

You can fight me with your progressive, liberal, rainbow, everyone-is-happy-and-shouldn't-be-press ured-to-try ideology, but you'll never win!

On a serious note, why do you think that a lot of the big game devs out there create their own engines from scratch, even 3D rendering! (I'm not just talking about big companies, the indie devs of Amnesia also made their engine from the ground up, only used 3rd party physics libs and such...

In the end, yes, do what you can, if you find an easy way of doing it, do it...but making a game is all about developing the core of it. It's what defines the game as yours imo. All flixel games have a similar feel I think...

meh.

Then again I only finally allowed myself to use 3rd party libs a few months ago, and started playing with Box2D a bit...explains my mentality a bit.
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-15 21:44:33 Reply

At 6/15/11 08:14 PM, PSvils wrote:
At 6/15/11 07:22 PM, I-smel wrote: god, whoever's saying that sounds like jerk. If your talent's in game design or animation, then you might aswell just jump onboard. Programming is a huge barrier for everyone.
I'm a disciple of the DUI. I mean DIY.

You can fight me with your progressive, liberal, rainbow, everyone-is-happy-and-shouldn't-be-press ured-to-try ideology, but you'll never win!

On a serious note, why do you think that a lot of the big game devs out there create their own engines from scratch, even 3D rendering! (I'm not just talking about big companies, the indie devs of Amnesia also made their engine from the ground up, only used 3rd party physics libs and such...
In the end, yes, do what you can, if you find an easy way of doing it, do it...but making a game is all about developing the core of it. It's what defines the game as yours imo. All flixel games have a similar feel I think...

meh.

Then again I only finally allowed myself to use 3rd party libs a few months ago, and started playing with Box2D a bit...explains my mentality a bit.

I can definitely understand your perspective. There is a more acute sense of ownership when you completely develop an engine. I can also understand your antipathy to anyone that takes "the easy way." Back when I was more active in the flash forum, it was Gust who helped me to build a more practical perspective on programming. His stern words eventually cracked my shell and, despite my drifting from programming, has allowed me to better appreciate the true objective of programming: the result. Since then I have taken the soccer approach to it: so long as the ball hits the back of the net, it's a goal.

As far as stencyl is concerned, I'm taking the time out tonight to work with it since I really didn't get a conclusive opinion. I'll see if it works for me and my needs and report my findings. I know back when I was a regular here, my biggest barrier was ego. Had I had something to supplement my understanding of AS3, I would have been much more productive.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-15 22:44:18 Reply

As a programmer I'm more inclined to dislike things like the Game Factory, etc. that make it waaaaay too easy to make bad games, but I will always appreciate the effort that is put in to making a truly enjoyable, unique game, no matter who or what made it.

However, I will respect an author far more if he programmed a game himself.

In the end, a good game programmed entirely from scratch using no "game builders" will always be better than anything made using a "game builder". The easier the game development process becomes, the more similar and repetitive games will become, until there is only a vague sense of originality left. The fewer creative restrictions you have, such as those that generally accompany "game builders" , the better the end result will be.

And some of this applies to Flash vs. C++/Java/whatever--some restrictions had to be applied to make the development process easier. I'm sure if we all spent the time to make games in other, less restrictive languages, we would be much happier with our work.

</ramble>

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-16 10:57:04 Reply

At 6/15/11 06:50 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: It's like, why make your own physics engine from scratch when there's perfectly good ones, and even better ones, out there?

I believe this sums up my opinion...

"When I tell most people that I made the engine and tools myself, they usually ask, "Why did you do that?" My friends over at FlashBang try to cram Unity down my throat every single time I talk to them, but I stand by the decision to make our own tools and engine.

One huge reason is control. I'm sort of a control freak when it comes to code; I like to understand everything that's going on in my codebase. That way, if something breaks, I know exactly where and how to fix it. Also, I got into games to program games, not to script them. I enjoy all aspects of game programming, from the engine to the gameplay. Since we're indie and can do what we want, and since I had the skill set, I simply enjoyed doing the engine."
(Tommy Refenes (programmer of Super Meat boy))

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-16 11:14:08 Reply

You people bore me. So when's the re-design coming? Is Tom waiting for the summer vacation?


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-16 15:27:33 Reply

At 6/16/11 11:14 AM, Xeptic wrote: You people bore me. So when's the re-design coming? Is Tom waiting for the summer vacation?

Tom is waiting for the icon mods... I'm sure it's not the only thing but that's part of the reason we don't have the redesign yet.

PestoForce
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-16 15:30:55 Reply

Tom holed up in a bunker for the May Rapture and set fire to the NG servers the day before.

When the Rapture was narrowly averted, Tom rebooted NG's servers on his cell phone and has been scrambling ever since to rebuild his empire.

That's why the redesign is delayed.

SantoNinoDeCebu
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-16 17:27:08 Reply

At 6/16/11 10:57 AM, UnknownFury wrote:
At 6/15/11 06:50 PM, 4urentertainment wrote: It's like, why make your own physics engine from scratch when there's perfectly good ones, and even better ones, out there?
I believe this sums up my opinion...

"When I tell most people that I made the engine and tools myself, they usually ask, "Why did you do that?" My friends over at FlashBang try to cram Unity down my throat every single time I talk to them, but I stand by the decision to make our own tools and engine.

One huge reason is control. I'm sort of a control freak when it comes to code; I like to understand everything that's going on in my codebase. That way, if something breaks, I know exactly where and how to fix it. Also, I got into games to program games, not to script them. I enjoy all aspects of game programming, from the engine to the gameplay. Since we're indie and can do what we want, and since I had the skill set, I simply enjoyed doing the engine."
(Tommy Refenes (programmer of Super Meat boy))

Important words here are "and since I had the skill set"!!

It really depends on the reason why someone wants to use something. Physics seems to be the prime example. If you are making a game with a bit pf physics bit it is neither a focal point of the game or your interest then that is where a pre-made engine is perfect, your efforts may be best spent on other aspects.

Optimise your time better then you optimise your game code! :p

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-16 22:24:33 Reply

At 6/16/11 10:57 AM, UnknownFury wrote: One huge reason is control. I'm sort of a control freak when it comes to code; I like to understand everything that's going on in my codebase. That way, if something breaks, I know exactly where and how to fix it.

Was going to write a long post but I'll just 1up this, I detest using other peoples classes unless I absolutely really really need to, which has never been the case in respect to AS3. For some people I can understand time is an issue and you want to see your work come into fruition quickly and painlessly, but until I get an actual full time programming job and I rely on getting results fast, it will be 90% a learning thing, I don't care so much about the end game as long as I'm getting better in the process, sure there have been times where I think, hey I have a ton of code that does this stuff and I could throw it together and make a game, would I learn more about making game in the process, maybe would I actually improve as a programmer, I really doubt it, so I'm kind of mean to myself in that way. I mean, what are the chances of me making the next Ocarina of Time? 1x10^100:1? Honestly at least I can be sure of when I'm going to learn something or at least get experience in tackling the problem or even keeping a handful of workarounds or new snippets in my programmers toolbox so-to-speak.

I never know how to end my posts properly, I'm so bad at writing conclusions.

nobody

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-19 18:50:31 Reply

Or maybe you've already outgrown it and now just see yourself as just a viewer rather than developer.


-L

I see myself becoming a developer of more gadgets than anything. I havent submitted much, but i want to make sure that as i submit my ideas are going in the right direction. I actually want to make a smaller easier to use flash... for the beginners who are just playing with the idea. where you draw a character click a button and it has the movement of a platformer character, then the same with the ground. completely no work for the designer... but easy enough to use that the people who cant figure out flash can still have a say in the flash world


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-19 21:37:02 Reply

<3 things other than Flash

Threw together a level editor for my game in Java and it's nice and simple to use, unlike most things made quickly in Flash.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-20 09:33:05 Reply

so how's the market for flash games these days?


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-20 10:09:07 Reply

At 6/19/11 09:37 PM, Archawn wrote: <3 things other than Flash

*facepalm*


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-20 11:24:29 Reply

At 6/20/11 09:33 AM, Toast wrote: so how's the market for flash games these days?

IMO (not?) bad...(although?) I have never seen any flash games for sale.


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Archawn
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-20 16:59:57 Reply

At 6/20/11 10:09 AM, Innermike wrote:
At 6/19/11 09:37 PM, Archawn wrote: <3 things other than Flash
*facepalm*

question mark

Innermike
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2011-06-20 17:57:40 Reply

At 6/20/11 04:59 PM, Archawn wrote:
At 6/20/11 10:09 AM, Innermike wrote:
At 6/19/11 09:37 PM, Archawn wrote: <3 things other than Flash
*facepalm*
question mark

ellipsis


nobody