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Doomsday-One
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-09 12:44:41 Reply

At 8/9/10 11:27 AM, doctormario wrote: Ok. A friend just posted this video, on my fb, by something calling itself Jedward and Vanilla Ice.

Please tell me this is some sort of inside UK joke.

Are you kidding? They [John and Edward] are two of the most popular musical individuals in Britain!

Inside joke, I wish

Doomsday-One, working on stuff better than preloaders. Marginally.

funkycaveman
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-09 16:06:39 Reply

At 8/9/10 11:41 AM, turtleco wrote:
At 8/9/10 11:36 AM, ugblahtheartistic wrote:
At 8/9/10 06:29 AM, funkycaveman wrote: New Ng levels collab trailer:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/54 4645
Tell me what you think.
where do I sign up?
go here

Fix'd, but you should have really seen the trailer and clicked the link in it, seeing it now works.

turtleco
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-09 16:15:29 Reply

At 8/9/10 12:55 AM, K-Guare wrote:
At 8/9/10 12:35 AM, ugblahtheartistic wrote: upload courtesy of ugblahtheartistic studios incorporated

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/521a 66b2958a66f908ed0bbb423cce49
easy as shit.
oh, and you might wanna take a look at this.

oh KG, you cheater you....


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Kool-Aid
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-09 20:34:01 Reply

Someone make a game with me.

Fraser
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-09 21:15:39 Reply

At 8/9/10 08:34 PM, Kool-Aid wrote: Someone make a game with me.

what sorta game you lookin' to make?

Chickumbleh
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-09 22:37:13 Reply

At 8/9/10 08:34 PM, Kool-Aid wrote: Someone make a game with me.

Like what?

Kool-Aid
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-09 23:58:38 Reply

I don't care. It's been so long since i've made a game and i really want to again. I do art, i would need a coder i just have no ideas or anything. I'm down for making anything except a HUGE game, or an rpg. Too boring and complex. I'm more of a short, simple, sweet game maker.

Sam
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 03:17:41 Reply

At 8/9/10 11:58 PM, Kool-Aid wrote: I don't care. It's been so long since i've made a game and i really want to again. I do art, i would need a coder i just have no ideas or anything. I'm down for making anything except a HUGE game, or an rpg. Too boring and complex. I'm more of a short, simple, sweet game maker.

Simple, Sweet? LIKE KOOL-AID?

Kool-aids a drink, right?
Sam
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 03:57:33 Reply

Fuck yeah, level 17. Embrace it

Starogre
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 14:14:45 Reply

At 8/10/10 03:57 AM, Sam wrote: Fuck yeah, level 17. Embrace it

oh yeah well this is my 2,186th post but you don't see me bragging about it


the events are merely fictional, written, directed, and acted out by all who create them

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turtleco
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 14:50:06 Reply

At 8/10/10 02:14 PM, Starogre wrote:
At 8/10/10 03:57 AM, Sam wrote: Fuck yeah, level 17. Embrace it
oh yeah well this is my 2,186th post but you don't see me bragging about it

I'm so jealous :(

jealin'

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Deadclever23
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 14:50:56 Reply

At 8/9/10 11:27 AM, doctormario wrote: Ok. A friend just posted this video, on my fb, by something calling itself Jedward and Vanilla Ice.

Please tell me this is some sort of inside UK joke.

I kept wishing for the ghost of Freddie Mercury to run the lot of these chavs up the chocolate highway. Fuck's sake. You know you're in trouble when Vanilla Ice is the most credible performer on the stage. Yikes.

That song got second in the UK charts. Those people came 4th in X factor (The British version of American Idol).


"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all."
- Oscar Wilde

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KaynSlamdyke
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 15:00:10 Reply

This (link) brilliant and totally fair article and it's totally unfair and not-at-all-well-thought-out rebutal (link) have been doing the rounds at deviantArt. Since Newgrounds is also mentioned as a totally happenin place to also hire totally awesome artists in the article, I figure it was only fair to mention it here

Warning. This post by KaynSlamdyke contains enough sarcasm to clog your arteries.

...

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Rustygames
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 15:01:00 Reply

Hey guys,

I've only got a few days left to raise some more funds so if anyone has a few quid spare then you can donate to a good cause here:

http://www.gifttool.com/athon/MyFundrais ingPage?ID=168&AID=1241&PID=153803

Also you can send any loose change you have in paypal to my paypal address and I'll put the funds on with my credit card

My paypal is rustygames@gmail.com

Thanks for your help so far :)


- Matt, Rustyarcade.com

Coaly
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 16:19:44 Reply

At 8/10/10 03:20 PM, citricsquid wrote:
Newgrounds is a perfect example, when they sponsor a game for $5000 do they think they're going to make $5000 off it? Fuck no, they expect to make a lot more, otherwise why bother sponsoring it?

Insert tom fulp response here.


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Kool-Aid
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 16:36:47 Reply

At 8/10/10 03:17 AM, Sam wrote: Simple, Sweet? LIKE KOOL-AID?

Kool-aids a drink, right?

Lol shutup. I just wanna make a game.

Fraser
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 16:58:07 Reply

What would be a good salary (per-hour) for a flash game?

Kool-Aid
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 17:21:10 Reply

At 8/10/10 04:58 PM, Fraxx wrote: What would be a good salary (per-hour) for a flash game?

Salary per hour? What?

doctormario
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 17:50:15 Reply

I'm impressed by the viral nature of that article. I had at least 20 people feel compelled to share that with me yesterday. Designers, animators, programmers.

I work like this:

I'll tell you how much it costs. If you flinch when I tell you, we're probably not doing business. If you suppose this is a game that everyone else isn't already playing, you've been drinking thermometers. Enjoy that.

The point in the article that is a bit sticky, is the implication that amateur = shite. Not true. In fact, I know more talented people, who are piss poor business people, than shrewd business types with an ounce of creativity.

Sometimes you play it safe, and sometimes you gamble.


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Glaiel-Gamer
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 21:31:47 Reply

At 8/10/10 03:20 PM, citricsquid wrote: Newgrounds is a perfect example, when they sponsor a game for $5000 do they think they're going to make $5000 off it? Fuck no, they expect to make a lot more, otherwise why bother sponsoring it? The "nice" thing to do would be to pay the producer whatever amount they make, but that is not how business works.

I've mentioned this before, but a sponsor doesn't usually make back their investment on a sponsorship that costs more than a few thousand. In isolation, that game would pull in way less (look at what you get for rev share from ads as an example. Even at 30%, you can see that the total it made from ads isn't anywhere NEAR what you get for a primary sponsorship.) It's all about grabbing returning visitors. A great game might pull in $1000 in direct revenue, but also might pull in 100,000 new daily users to the website as a whole (which could generate 2k/m continuously on OTHER games on the site, something you coudn't do without a huge collection of games/movies to keep people coming back).

It's sorta like buying lottery tickets that have an average net gain rather than average net loss. You buy $25000 worth of lottery tickets and make $40000 on them. Most of the tickets are losers, but a few big winners make you all the money back.

Glaiel-Gamer
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 21:42:08 Reply

At 8/10/10 04:58 PM, Fraxx wrote: What would be a good salary (per-hour) for a flash game?

This really depends how good you are, how efficiently you work, and how much demand there is for your work.

If you can work twice as fast as someone who charges $60/hr, then you should easily be able to charge $100/hr ("ah, I charge more, but it'll only take me half the time, so you actually save money"). If your work is higher quality AND you can work fast, you can charge quite a bit per hour.

Charging per-project tends to work a little better for flash games, cause then you can't sit back and slack while still technically "on the clock". There's an incentive to finish fast, as more output = more profit. If a performance bonus is included, then there's also incentive not to cut corners on the actual development.

You can get an idea of your "hourly rate" after doing a few sponsored projects (i.e. this game took 3 weeks and netted 5k. 5k/120hr = $41.67/hr. This other game took 2 weeks and got 7k. That's $87.50/hr. This last game took 2 months and made 8k. $25/hr?)

Glaiel-Gamer
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 21:54:48 Reply

Hence why you see so many "small" flash games and not too many "epic" flash games.

The Flash 'Reg' Lounge

Luis
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-10 22:23:16 Reply

At 8/10/10 03:20 PM, citricsquid wrote: Newgrounds is a perfect example, when they sponsor a game for $5000 do they think they're going to make $5000 off it? Fuck no, they expect to make a lot more, otherwise why bother sponsoring it?

Hmm, thats kind of a bold statement.

Last I checked NG is probably one of the only sites that also sponsors animations as well. Im sure we're rolling in money from sponsoring those.

Maybe part of it is that NG feels a sense of commitment in the medium and culture its helped build. It stays competitive by investing in its talent, for a payoff beyond the single episode of nameless or the next egoraptor incarnation. Its just kind of an insulting baseless statement and im kind of annoyed about it.

======================

As for that article or that guy. Business is definately cut throat, and there are people who function like that guy and have little to no respect for the profession. Why should they? they have their goals and their methods. I think one of the most painful lessons one learns as an amateur or up and coming professional programmer/animator is that you do need to learn a little bit about the business. One of the most common mistakes people make is thinking that pure talent in what they do will clear their way. You gotta be able to take care of yourself out there. I think the article is positive in that it should serve as an eye-opener to naive creative folks out there. Theres establishments like the Creative Artists Guild and other organizations that you can join as you get more serious about your profession that can be of great resource in getting into the business of design/animation/whatever. Even if we managed to rip that guy apart, theres millions more just like him. Fact of life.


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turtleco
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-11 00:29:27 Reply

At 8/10/10 10:23 PM, Luis wrote: Hmm, thats kind of a bold statement.

Last I checked NG is probably one of the only sites that also sponsors animations as well. Im sure we're rolling in money from sponsoring those.

Maybe part of it is that NG feels a sense of commitment in the medium and culture its helped build. It stays competitive by investing in its talent, for a payoff beyond the single episode of nameless or the next egoraptor incarnation. Its just kind of an insulting baseless statement and im kind of annoyed about it.

does Tom pay you to do speeches in the reg lounge for him? this is the 2nd or 3rd time you've done this since you were hired.


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Sam
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-11 01:09:31 Reply

At 8/11/10 12:29 AM, turtleco wrote: does Tom pay you to do speeches in the reg lounge for him? this is the 2nd or 3rd time you've done this since you were hired.

He's changed man... he's changed.

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-11 03:08:54 Reply

I think we should note that, the guy behind that article is 16 years old, and he's already made $60,000 from his games.

Now I think that's *really* impressive, as only 3 of his games make up the majority of that money.

Luis
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-11 08:30:01 Reply

At 8/11/10 12:29 AM, turtleco wrote:
does Tom pay you to do speeches in the reg lounge for him? this is the 2nd or 3rd time you've done this since you were hired.

not really. i visit the lounge like any other flash person here, i just happen to also work here now and get am inevitably immersed in the way the site functions as a workplace since i have to sit here in the office. I'd be making way more than 2 or 3 speeches if I was on a commission based system believe me.

Since the forums are more fragmented now, i dont often find the opportunity to barge in on the banter, i mean after all the flash forum is more programming slanted now and well im not a programmer. I still like to stalk this particular thread, because alot of people here i consider friends and colleagues.


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Luis
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-11 08:43:28 Reply

At 8/11/10 04:08 AM, citricsquid wrote:
At 8/10/10 10:23 PM, Luis wrote: Last I checked NG is probably one of the only sites that also sponsors animations as well. Im sure we're rolling in money from sponsoring those.
Maybe I don't understand business as much as I thought then, but unless Newgrounds is losing money to be "nice" it seems strange they wouldn't make back their money. I don't necessarily mean directly from adverts for that specific submission, but also "residual" visits and ad views.

It is strange. Some shit pans out, some doesn't. Either way its hard to really do hard-line numbers on when exactly a particular submission has made back what you originally sponsored for it. Maybe there's other companies who are more maniacal about keeping stats or maybe Tom has a secret vault of some supercomputer tracking every investment but as far as I know the site has run with Tom's gut being what drives it and for whatever strange reason its worked for 10+ years. Some animations/games do hit big and some dont.

The business itself, particularly for animation is in a weird spot. Because the gaming is more lucrative, and Adobe seems to be slowly pulling the rug on the animation aspects of it. I mean the last whatever versions of flash, have done little to nothing to really cater towards the animation sensibilities of flash. Yea they added bones or whatever other garbage. yea garbage. but for the most part have just let that group just kinda hang out. So you have animators trickling out, finding themselves using After Effects, Toon Boom or whatever else to compliment the features that Flash has turned a cold shoulder on. The problem with that is that NG is still shackled to the swf aspect of things, and its becoming increasingly difficult for an animator to build his whole shit with a suite of programs and hack it back into a lump that somewhat resembles an swf. It becomes a chore to upload to the site in my opinion. A chore you eventually see as too much trouble to be worth it.

Anyway i went off on a tangent. sorrrry


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-11 11:36:53 Reply

At 8/10/10 09:54 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: Hence why you see so many "small" flash games and not too many "epic" flash games.

If I may disagree, I think the reason for that is that "epic" games are exponentially harder to create then smaller games. It's not about how hard it is to code specific engines for "epic" games, but about how fucking complicated it becomes when you got a freaking huge disorganized plate of flash-puke in front of you.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2010-08-11 11:51:06 Reply

At 8/11/10 11:36 AM, Toast wrote: If I may disagree, I think the reason for that is that "epic" games are exponentially harder to create then smaller games. It's not about how hard it is to code specific engines for "epic" games, but about how fucking complicated it becomes when you got a freaking huge disorganized plate of flash-puke in front of you.

Well, if there was a market for it, you'd definitely see a lot more of them. There are tons of amazingly skilled developers in the professional community, but fact of the matter is, big epic games just aren't worth the time and effort put into them, when they can make a bunch of small games that would earn more.