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At 9/21/09 08:59 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: I'm gonna try to figure out an easy to get bacon on it too, but bacon is a pain to cook so I might just cook like a pound at once and freeze what I don't need.

pffft i tried some american bacon after the second day of PAX and i must say, it's not that great.

try some canadian bacon. its full of flavor, juciy, big and everything, unlike your wimpy bland american bacon.

At 9/21/09 11:23 PM, fluffkomix wrote: pffft i tried some american bacon after the second day of PAX and i must say, it's not that great.

try some canadian bacon. its full of flavor, juciy, big and everything, unlike your wimpy bland american bacon.

You'd get the same taste of Canadian bacon if you got some American ham.
Also, bacon's awesome.

At 9/22/09 12:27 AM, Alpharius120 wrote:

At 9/21/09 11:23 PM, fluffkomix wrote:
try some canadian bacon. its full of flavor, juciy, big and everything, unlike your wimpy bland american bacon.

You'd get the same taste of Canadian bacon if you got some American ham.

yeah right, even our ham is superior. face it, our pigs win.

Also, bacon's awesome.

Bacon > Ham

face it you must have gotten some crappy dennys bacon or whatever from a place that microwaves pre cooked bacon shipped frozen from 1000 miles away. You need to go buy fresh bacon and cook it yourself if you want to really taste the awesomness of a bacon burger.

Also, I hate ham.

At 9/22/09 12:33 AM, fluffkomix wrote:

At 9/22/09 12:27 AM, Alpharius120 wrote:

At 9/21/09 11:23 PM, fluffkomix wrote:
try some canadian bacon. its full of flavor, juciy, big and everything, unlike your wimpy bland american bacon.

Canadian bacon has a sort of sweet taste which I don't particularly like.

At 9/22/09 12:39 AM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: Bacon > Ham

face it you must have gotten some crappy dennys bacon or whatever from a place that microwaves pre cooked bacon shipped frozen from 1000 miles away. You need to go buy fresh bacon and cook it yourself if you want to really taste the awesomness of a bacon burger.

i hate that kind of bacon, the kind that you'd get at a tim horton's thats thin and crispy and flavorless. naw i got it on a bacon cheeseburger from the cheesecake factory, and considering the quality of their food, i'm guessing it was pretty good bacon as well.

for american.

Happy madness day this banner's the best one yet!

At 9/22/09 01:05 AM, angryglacier wrote: Happy madness day this banner's the best one yet!

it's the same as last year's, they just changed 2008 to 2009.

also, am I the only one here that hates madness day?

At 9/22/09 01:15 AM, Magical-Zorse wrote:

At 9/22/09 01:05 AM, angryglacier wrote: Happy madness day this banner's the best one yet!

it's the same as last year's, they just changed 2008 to 2009.

also, am I the only one here that hates madness day?

Huh I didn't notice well now I feel stupid. I personally hate madness in general because so much people use madness sprites because they have no drawing skill, and all madness is is brutal destruction. But madness day well... I've always got Tom's game to look forward to no matter the LOLOLOLOL HANK MAKE AWESOME FIGHT IN MY SECWEL TO MY MADNES MOVIE S THANK TO KRINKELSS

At 9/22/09 01:21 AM, angryglacier wrote:

At 9/22/09 01:15 AM, Magical-Zorse wrote:

At 9/22/09 01:05 AM, angryglacier wrote: Happy madness day this banner's the best one yet!

it's the same as last year's, they just changed 2008 to 2009.

also, am I the only one here that hates madness day?

Huh I didn't notice well now I feel stupid. I personally hate madness in general because so much people use madness sprites

Meh, i must be getting old but i actually think madness day is kind of cool.

Not in a oh i need to participate way, but more of like let the kids have fun type of way. It reminds me of high school 'spirit' week where you had to come to school in your pajamas or something silly. I think its a cool day to not really take anything on the portal seriously and just kinda celebrate a series that was born and bred on the site.
It has alot more sentimental value than say something like a mario sprite day or something. I was probably really opinionated about it at some point, but now im just kinda at peace with it.

At 9/22/09 02:52 AM, Luis wrote: Meh, i must be getting old but i actually think madness day is kind of cool.

It makes me feel old :/ I can't help feeling like it's something for the 14-year-old-ish users to enjoy. I remember Madness being one of the first things that brought me to this site... I wish it had had a day back then when I was young enough to get into the spirit of it :p

At 9/22/09 06:20 AM, Paranoia wrote:

At 9/22/09 02:52 AM, Luis wrote: Meh, i must be getting old but i actually think madness day is kind of cool.

It makes me feel old :/ I can't help feeling like it's something for the 14-year-old-ish users to enjoy. I remember Madness being one of the first things that brought me to this site... I wish it had had a day back then when I was young enough to get into the spirit of it :p

I never really got into madness at all, when i first came to NG it was for xiaoxiao, and then after legendary frog and Decline of videogames :P I'm not super intrigued by madness, all this means is that i have to wait an extra week to submit a certain finished flash :P

I'm not a big fan of any of the days (Bar Luis day, when the regs unite), there are some great submissions but it just doesn't seem as exciting as it used to be.

At 9/22/09 10:01 AM, Depredation wrote: I'm not a big fan of any of the days (Bar Luis day, when the regs unite), there are some great submissions but it just doesn't seem as exciting as it used to be.

I think the holidays are a nice way to see people's perspective and jokes on the days.
The reason behind me going to NG was tom's first games, then I stopped after a while and the movie that really brought me back was Luis's Till Death Do Us Part...

I have never seen anything like it. An animation like that on a site and the whole story and animation is good so I stayed and watched movies and played games.

i only really liked madness before i knew it was on newgrounds. when i found it it was on newgrounds i was already over it a little.

the fan-made ones are okay tho, depending on how they're done. my favs for each year of madness day are the ones that don't use the original madness sprites, and are done with the artist' own style. it makes me feel as if im watching more of a fan made film rather than a total ripoff

some of the total ripoff ones are okay though

Ironically (or not), i actually like Krinkels' madness when it was rediculous 'dumb' violence. Like when the main character ( i dont think it was Hank back then.) had the task of just killing Sheriff, or you had the DJ clown. No real story or reason, just moar madness. I think as the series started to develop put more backbone into it, it lost me. I still watch it and what not, its just no longer my guilt pleasure. It's kinda like wathcing the Scary Movies franchise, you know its just a rubbish set of movies but you cant help but waste an afternoon watching it. Theres almost some masochistic joy in watching your brain rot from that.

On the other hand, I dont think madness would have lasted as long as it did if it didnt develop atleast some shred of a story after awhile. Despite my desire to have it be the simple thing it was when i was into it.

In recent years farmers have been breeding their livestock to be tasteless in order for people to buy the meat and then buy brand sauces as well in an effort to get more sales.

At 9/21/09 08:19 PM, Zuggz wrote: Thanks for everyone's words, it has helped me think it all over.

RE: Getting fucked over.

Unless you legally signed a contract you're entitled to nothing, you could always go after them for using your work without permission, however that's a tricky thing to do and you probably won't ever get any money. That's a major problem working online freelance and partnering, because it's so easy to mislead people and also because of how easy it is to hide yourself.

I'm currently in a similar position; I have a client - web dev - who owes me 50% of a project - I take 50% minimum upfront, which I highly recommend everyone does - and he's disappeared, the beauty of 50% is that I'm now not actually losing anything, the 50% left is what I'd have made profit wise, so sure I'm not in a desirable position but I haven't lost anything, furthermore unless they pay the full amount they get no work, so I pretty much win either way.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing and some deals are just too tempting to pass up, but I highly recommend you use escrow services if you can't get a client to cough up 50% first, they're great and are pretty much 100% secure if you go with a reputable company.

also, am I the only one here that hates madness day?

No. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. I always figured it was something for people who really dig violence, and who couldn't be bothered to draw arms.

I'm just waiting to see what Tom has cooked up. I've seen about 5 or 6 movies today and they were actually pretty darn good. It's fun to see a madness movie that's made in a different style.

I've been trying to animate a walking horse for the last hour or so. Incredibly frustrating. I hate living things.

I never really got into madness but my brother downloaded the game when i was like 10 or 12 or something and i used to play it all the time. it was fucking rad cause id never seen anything like it before. i was used to playing math blaster or something gay like that

At 9/22/09 01:00 PM, Xeptic wrote: I'm just waiting to see what Tom has cooked up. I've seen about 5 or 6 movies today and they were actually pretty darn good. It's fun to see a madness movie that's made in a different style.

I've been trying to animate a walking horse for the last hour or so. Incredibly frustrating. I hate living things.

imagine a person walking in the frond and an ostrich walking in the back. thats from richard williams i believe. You should google tutorials , theres one with james baxter as well as many other great ones

At 9/22/09 01:04 PM, hashbrown wrote: imagine a person walking in the frond and an ostrich walking in the back. thats from richard williams i believe. You should google tutorials , theres one with james baxter as well as many other great ones

I'm gonna cheat by not showing the feet I think. Time pressure. Thanks for the tips though :)

At 9/22/09 12:27 PM, citricsquid wrote:

At 9/21/09 08:19 PM, Zuggz wrote: Thanks for everyone's words, it has helped me think it all over.

Unless you legally signed a contract you're entitled to nothing

The fact that he and his partner agreed that he'd get 2000 is a contract, he is legally entitled to the money his partner stole from him, and I don't doubt that a court would rule in favor of zuggz to get the money. I just don't know anything about going through that process and how much it would cost or anything like that. He's definitely 'entitled' to the money though.

At 9/22/09 01:00 PM, Xeptic wrote: horse

this should fix your walking horse problem :D

At 9/22/09 01:17 PM, Coaly wrote: The fact that he and his partner agreed that he'd get 2000 is a contract, he is legally entitled to the money his partner stole from him, and I don't doubt that a court would rule in favor of zuggz to get the money. I just don't know anything about going through that process and how much it would cost or anything like that. He's definitely 'entitled' to the money though.

He isn't, really. A verbal contract while technically is a contract it holds nothing legally. I could say to you "You mow my lawn and I'll give you $10" and then not pay you and you can't do anything besides piss on my lawn. That's the problem with the internet, it's exactly the same and unless you've got the best lawyers in the world you'll get nowhere.

Proof is everything, if you can prove beyond doubt that he agreed to pay you $2000 for xx work and then didn't pay and therefore broke the terms, sure, but without being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt you're not going to get anywhere. Emails count for nothing unless you can prove they came from him. It sucks, it really does, but that's how it works.

I'm unsure about how it works when collecting, but as far as I'm aware even if he did sue it'd still be a civil suit and therefore he is under absolutely no obligation to pay. Here in the UK for example, if I do work for a person and then they don't pay I'm the one who has to chase them down, if the courts agree that they should pay up they're then told to show how much they can afford to pay. Even if you don't pay there are no legal repercussions other than repossession, which can be avoided by not letting debt collectors in your home. There was a case where a woman owed a legal firm something like £300 and told the courts she could only afford £1 a month, so they agreed and it's 27 years (or something like that) for her to pay back.

I can't find the damn program anywhere, but it was called "cowboy customers" and it aired here on BBC1 (I think) and it was all about customers who refused to pay and how it fucks businesses right up. I'll see if I can find a download, it's an interesting watch and really does show how shit the legal system is when customers refuse to pay.

At 9/22/09 01:49 PM, citricsquid wrote: I can't find the damn program anywhere

I found something fitting this description, sound about right?
Sounds like a good view, I'll be sure to check it out.

A hard-hitting look at the devastating effect on small businesses of customers taking goods and services but not paying for them. The programme is presented by builder Nigel Gray, who hit the headlines when he demolished a brand new conservatory because a customer refused to pay the bill, bankrupting him in the process. Nigel goes on a quest to confront customers who owe some of the 38 billion pounds in overdue or unpaid bills to Britain's small businesses, and reveals the human costs of these cowboy customers. He also goes to Westminster to campaign for laws that will make it easier for businesses to recoup the owed money that could keep them afloat.

At 9/22/09 11:09 AM, Luis wrote: On the other hand, I dont think madness would have lasted as long as it did if it didnt develop atleast some shred of a story after awhile. Despite my desire to have it be the simple thing it was when i was into it.

I don't know - I think it could have developed aesthetically without losing its mindlessness. Like, different kinds of insane violence, different locations and experimenting with different art styles.

In other news, I swear anyone who needs inspiration for monsters or something should just take a wiki-walk through marine arthropods. There are some awesome species out there.

At 9/22/09 01:41 PM, citricsquid wrote: He isn't, really. A verbal contract while technically is a contract it holds nothing legally. I could say to you "You mow my lawn and I'll give you $10" and then not pay you and you can't do anything besides piss on my lawn. That's the problem with the internet, it's exactly the same and unless you've got the best lawyers in the world you'll get nowhere.

Except that verbal contracts are legally binding, if I had a recording of you saying I'll pay you $10 if you mow my lawn then I could sue you for those $10, but I wouldn't because it's $10 and for that reason it's a stupid example to begin with. The "best lawyers in the world" argument is also ridiculous the law doesn't change because you have better lawyers, it's either possible or it's not.

Proof is everything, if you can prove beyond doubt that he agreed to pay you $2000 for xx work and then didn't pay and therefore broke the terms, sure, but without being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt you're not going to get anywhere. Emails count for nothing unless you can prove they came from him. It sucks, it really does, but that's how it works.

I really extremely doubt that it's true that emails can't be used as legal documents. The artist did sign a contract with addictinggames and zuggz mentioned trading emails with them, I would think a corporation producing emails and you producing emails that both show the same thing would be usable in court. Plus there's the fact that zuggz did the work, and it would be completely unreasonable to argue he was doing it for free, and then it's a question of how much money was he promised and all of the emails and reasonable logic would show that $2000 is a realistic amount and the amount he was promised. Also this is the united states, so some uk program, and uk law really have nothing to do with the situation.

Point being, it's completely ridiculous to say he couldn't get the money legally for the reasons you are using. Also while I'm admitting I really don't know what the laws are you seem entirely sure about what you're saying, which I don't see why you could be unless you've had some real experience with trying to retrieve money using the legal system in a situation like this.

One thing I hadn't noticed was that zuggz is in Canada, so I would think that complicates it a bit, besides that he couldn't practically get to california to sue the guy...