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At 9/21/09 03:44 PM, Zuggz wrote:

At 9/21/09 03:39 PM, knugen wrote: That sucks Zuggz :(

No, the game isn't on Newgrounds. It can easily be found google searching Greyhound racing tycoon.
Or searching the source, addictinggames.com

It says cartoon electra did the artwork so im guessing youve worked with this guy before? I know this isnt nearly as bad but one time i was working on a game with someone and the ditched me to get a new artist because i didnt work fast enough (or at all). Later on the programmer asked me if they could use my old sprites i basically said no unless i am compensated (because i had already done 70% of the work, i just started slacking :/). When the game came out they ended up using about 50% of my work, they essentially just changed the main character and the enemies, and everything else was mine (like explosions, backgrounds, weapons, bullets etc) and i was pissed since they got payed 800 dollars. I emailed the sponsor and they never sent me a response back, i also imed the programmer and i didnt get a response from him either.

Cartoon-Electra ? Seriously I'm glad I didn't accept his offer to code for him !
>:C

@Zuggs: I don't know what you can do but if he doesn't pay you or anything soon, make a thread in the Flash forum saying what he did.

At 9/21/09 03:44 PM, Zuggz wrote: No, the game isn't on Newgrounds. It can easily be found google searching Greyhound racing tycoon.
Or searching the source, addictinggames.com

But that's the same guy who you made the other game with correct? Does he still live with his parents or anything? It may sound silly, but if that's the case you could contact them....

Otherwise I think you should absolutely contact addictinggames and get a dialog going about the situation. It would be best if you could talk to someone that had a better idea of the situation from a legal point of view. Maybe you could contact the guys at http://www.flashgamelicense.com/, even if they aren't legal experts they still have a lot of connections with sites, including addictinggames, and a lot of experience. Maybe they could help you out.

At 9/21/09 03:19 PM, Zuggz wrote: Story about how poor Zuggz was cheated out of money by an asshole

Damn, that sucks. I hope you can get your money legally. This guy has no morals or his priorities are out of check if he spends the money instead of rightfully giving you your share. If it is Cartoon-Electra, then I think you should tell others to stay away from him that way he doesn't screw someone over as well. I hope you get your money and use it well :D.

At 9/21/09 03:19 PM, Zuggz wrote: Is there anything I can do?

Luckily I've never been in that position. Well I've "not gotten paid" before but that's because I'm pretty sure the other guy never actually was able to get money for the game anyway.

Which sponsor was it? Depending on that, you can probably complain to the sponsor about it, ruin the animator's chances of making any more money off of a sponsor, and probably get some compensation from the sponsor for your work.

Trust me the sponsor will take it seriously.

At 9/21/09 03:59 PM, Coaly wrote: But that's the same guy who you made the other game with correct? Does he still live with his parents or anything? It may sound silly, but if that's the case you could contact them....

This, and

Maybe you could contact the guys at http://www.flashgamelicense.com/, even if they aren't legal experts they still have a lot of connections with sites, including addictinggames, and a lot of experience. Maybe they could help you out.

this are both very good ideas. I would contact CE one last time before you start negotiating with Addicting Games or call his house though. Tell him what you're going to, put some pressure on him. I don't know what I would do in your shoes. At least we can make sure he never screws someone over the way he did with you.

Added Details

Yes the person is cartoon-electra or as far as I know (steven binks) nickname Ste
How true his name is questionable since he seems to change usernames a lot.

The contract was for 6000 USD I was promised 2000, got none.
This was the second game I've work with and the first I was promised 400, but was never given that either since it wasn't sponsored. (little amount since I didn't code it from scratch, I was just finishing what someone else started)

I'd be completely happy with just 1000 since I need that to pay off the depts that have piled up while waiting to be paid.. I would just get a job but my schooling calls for 40-50 some odd hours a week. plus homework.

I hope no one falls for this trap ever.

all by myself

could i t be

all by myself

At 9/21/09 04:10 PM, Zuggz wrote: Added Details

Dude go for the full 2000 he owes you. He was a dick to you, get the money you deserve. Plus after you pay off things then you will have some money to yourself which would be better then just being able to pay off bills and having little to no money. Then all the work you did won't feel as satisfying. Get the full money and do whatever you need to, to get it back.

At 9/21/09 03:31 PM, Zuggz wrote: I don't expect to be able to get paid, i'm more so looking to if I had at least make sure he get's screwed over at least. Since technically he's using code now that he doesn't have permission to use I can request the sponsor to take it down from their website. And hopefully have them force him to refund them.

Bollocks to that - you'll feel worse about things if you just try to screw him over at any cost. Just try and get your money in, and maybe put his name out so other coders are forwarned.

What do the sponsors say about all of this? Obviously they're under no obligations to you, but it's in their interests as sponsors and indeed decent human beings to help you out given the situation.

At 9/21/09 04:25 PM, Paranoia wrote: Bollocks to that - you'll feel worse about things if you just try to screw him over at any cost.

Oh I didn't mean it like that at all. I just don't see this working out to me getting paid. But I want him to at least have to refund the sponsors due to basically stolen code. Of course I'd rather just get what I'm promised and let this all fade away. Or at least pay off what I owe.

Anyways, thanks for the advice everyone. I'm slowly thinking up a way to bring this all up to the sponsor formally. I can't called his parents since he lives alone. But I'll def look into the gamelicense site and contacting the sponsor.

At 9/21/09 04:10 PM, Zuggz wrote: Added Details

Yes the person is cartoon-electra or as far as I know (steven binks) nickname Ste
How true his name is questionable since he seems to change usernames a lot.

Allow me to give some background insight on who you're dealing with:

Thanks to DreamworX in this really old thread, Cartoon-Electra appears to be in fact abtoons. In the link above, the traced sports car that C-E uses as proof of drawing ability is coincidentally the same one that abtoons used one year prior. I wasn't around to see him in all of his glory, but I'm sure that regs from '06 knew who he was.

Abtoons is the foul-mouthed guy who made an ass out of himself taking a public .fla roulette game, and then getting pissy over people who called him out. [1] [2] [3]

All I can say is, if you can hit abtoons/C-E, HIT HIM HARD. ;D

At 9/21/09 03:39 PM, knugen wrote: That sucks Zuggz :( Was it this game? I've always had something against the guy who did the art for that, I'm pretty sure it's this guy's new account and he have a bit of a history of ripping people off...

See, DreamworX beats me to posting things -- every time. :P

Wow, what a cunt! Dont suppose you used mochi version control? That could be a useful tool :)

Was it this game? Cos on there the author is "SnubbyLand & AddictingGames"... Or am I just confusing matters? :P

At 9/21/09 04:51 PM, Jimp wrote: Was it this game? Cos on there the author is "SnubbyLand & AddictingGames"... Or am I just confusing matters? :P

That's what confused me at first as well. In fact I was just going through Snubby's personal info to look up his phone number and whereabouts. But I suppose Snubby is just the sponsor. Woops.

Anyway, 2000$ is not a small amount and surely worth some trouble trying to get it back.

Brings a smile to my face to see a group of people taking interest in this issue.

Yes it is the greyhound racing game on addicitinggames. And Snubby is just some alias addictinggames used for themselves since it was an exclusive sponsorship we basically we're working literally for them as contracted staff in a way.

So don't let that part confuse you.

Thanks again guys.

back to trying to pay attention in lectures.

Holy shit, I just came back from a half a month long God of War rampage, best two weeks of my life, now I'm back from my Everything suicide and the possibilities are unlimited.

holy crap $2000? most i've ever gotten paid for flash work is 20 bucks for 20 seconds of animation.

very low pay but i was able to buy behemoth merch with it

I found the best lunch ever:

Heat up george forman grill
put a fresh burger patty on it, fill the rest of the space with portabella mushroom slices
Close the grill

wait

Melt cheddar cheese on the burger

take burger off grill

put bun on grill, close, grill for a minute

Assemble burger.

Put ranch dressing on burger (i used tostitos southwestern ranch dip)

eat.

So delicious, easy to prepare, difficult to screw up, practically no cleanup.

I'm gonna permanently add this to my college diet

At 9/21/09 04:44 PM, Kart-Man wrote: Abtoons

Woah, this is turning into a right old blast from the past :/ I feel like this lounge is turning into a second rate hollywood sequel of itself :p

At 9/21/09 05:42 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote:

:Hamburger of Awesomeness

Damn, that sounds good. Now I just need to get a George grill.

That must of filled you up and brought some closure to your hunger.

At 9/21/09 05:00 PM, Zuggz wrote: Yes it is the greyhound racing game on addicitinggames. And Snubby is just some alias addictinggames used for themselves since it was an exclusive sponsorship we basically we're working literally for them as contracted staff in a way.

That's just low, that abtoons guy, or whoever he is should be ashamed of himself

At 9/21/09 05:12 PM, Zyphonee wrote: Holy shit, I just came back from a half a month long God of War rampage, best two weeks of my life, now I'm back from my Everything suicide and the possibilities are unlimited.

So that's where you've been. I was worried

At 9/21/09 06:01 PM, Magical-Zorse wrote:

At 9/21/09 05:00 PM, Zuggz wrote: Yes it is the greyhound racing game on addicitinggames. And Snubby is just some alias addictinggames used for themselves since it was an exclusive sponsorship we basically we're working literally for them as contracted staff in a way.

That's just low, that abtoons guy, or whoever he is should be ashamed of himself

That sucks, sorry to hear about your situation. Definately always always always keep documentation of things. You learn the hard way but you seriously are better off if you hammer into your head to keep documentation of any and everything if it involves money changing hands. Make photocopies of checks you get, e-mails discussing money amounts, whatever. First year i did freelance work i didnt bother to keep documentation and i got into some shit with a client because he 'verbally' promised one amount and then come time to pay the bill said he never agreed to such a thing.

As for your particular situation, you really shoulda gotten in there in the mix with your sponsor from the begenning and have been getting checks from the sponsor. Funneling your cut through the other person really put you in a vulnerable spot and the worst scenario played itself out unfortunately. Games are a team effort generally and most sponsors are well aware of that and are typically used to/open to the idea of having to cut a check to artist and another to programmer (and another to audio artist if applicable). This way worse case scenario if he runs off with your check, he couldnt cash it anyway.
Having you just trust someone who you've never worked with to handle your end of your finances is about as insane as it sounds outside of the internet.

I have no experience in law so i have no clue how much leverage you actually have in this scenario to recover your money, my guess would be very little since you werent contractually bound to your sponsor at all but rather some stranger who had access to your money and decided to run off.

:(

I remember that guy; he's been showing off traced and/or stolen stuff since 2005 and never stopped despite the extreme amount of negative feedback he always got. A real e-thug on steroids. It's disappointing that someone from the reg lounge worked with him. If you told us we wouldn't think twice before telling you there's no benefit at all in interacting with that douche.

@ Luis

I really I don't I have much leverage if any. I mean I have the email convo of him admitting to screw me over and laughing about it. But I don't see what having that'll do. I don't have the time or money to sue him by any means.

Hopefully this semi-explains why I couldn't get a good engine setup for ya around August, was busy playing email tag with this crap :(

@ Toast

Looking back on it all I feel stupid for falling for it. I guess once the debts started to pile I figured this was the only way to get money since the contract was all ready for me and the game only looked to be a few weeks to make if i put full days into it.

Lesson learned.

I've e-mail the sponsor; informing him of the certain state I'm in. Ball's in his court now.
I'm trying to not put too much effort into all this since it really seems to be counter productive.
If it was still summer it would be a different story.

With the few hours I get to myself over the school week I'm going to try to find time for Flash again and try to pump out some sorta casual game to get either sponsored or throw ads in. I only need enough to pay my debts for now.

That or just carry around a tin can with "change please" on it.
Thanks for everyone's words, it has helped me think it all over.

At 9/21/09 08:19 PM, Zuggz wrote: I'm trying to not put too much effort into all this since it really seems to be counter productive.

Balls. It won't take much effort to convince the sponsor to help out. The internet is a hate machine after all, and if they try to turn the other cheek all you need to do is write a short little blog post telling your side of the story. They won't want the bad publicity, and you can most definitely weasel the money out of the sponsor and let them deal with the jerk who ripped you off.

At 9/21/09 05:47 PM, Keith wrote: That must of filled you up and brought some closure to your hunger.

It didn't really fill me up but it was satisfying enough that I didn't feel like eating any more after I was done with it (just wanted the taste to stay in my mouth for as long as possible you know?)

I'm gonna try to figure out an easy to get bacon on it too, but bacon is a pain to cook so I might just cook like a pound at once and freeze what I don't need.

At 9/21/09 08:59 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: Balls. It won't take much effort to convince the sponsor to help out.

I hope you're right. Once this all sorts it self out - hopefully it will. I'll def need to celebrate the victory of cutting a stress out of the year that's been itching me for the past few months.
Would be nice to have more than one meal a day again lol...

NG Vancouver meetup? drinking age 19..

Could be an idea for the future.

At 9/21/09 08:59 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: (just wanted the taste to stay in my mouth for as long as possible you know?)

Quoted for posterity

At 9/21/09 08:59 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote:

:(just wanted the taste to stay in my mouth for as long as possible you know?)

lol yeah, i know what you mean, everyone kept talking about your sweet game I had to somehow throw that in the post...

but I really want to make myself one

When Closure comes out I'm gonna play it whilst eating a Glaiel burger.
Then I'll giggle to myself a little, and then forget another idea
I'd had of a good puzzle platformer.

MLIA