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Xeptic
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:00:32 Reply

At 10/3/08 01:40 PM, SweetSkater wrote: Paranoia what the fuck are you talking about.
You can be wealthy if you try hard enough, it doesn't matter what background you come from, if you try hard enough you can do whatever you want. You are saying that wealthier should be taxed a bigger percentage of their income? Fuck that. You dirty fucking communist.

rofl (unless that was sarcasm), Paranoia is quite right in saying that someone from a wealthy background has a much higher chance of becoming successful than someone from a lower class. Taking a look at a ghetto and the crime rate/avarage income or future prospectives for kids from such a lower part of town would probably show that (will have to look from some articles on that later tonight). And yes, people with a higher income should be taxed more, simply because they can afford to be taxed more without seriously decreasing their living standards.


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:00:55 Reply

fuck you


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jmtb02
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:04:18 Reply

http://xkcd.com/484/

That is all :).


Hi there!

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Will
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:08:33 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:00 PM, Xeptic wrote: rofl (unless that was sarcasm), Paranoia is quite right in saying that someone from a wealthy background has a much higher chance of becoming successful than someone from a lower class. Taking a look at a ghetto and the crime rate/avarage income or future prospectives for kids from such a lower part of town would probably show that (will have to look from some articles on that later tonight). And yes, people with a higher income should be taxed more, simply because they can afford to be taxed more without seriously decreasing their living standards.

No, that was not sarcasm.
Obviously richer people are taxed more because there incomes are higher, but the % should stay the same, why should richer people be punished for reaching the top?
And if you are born into a wealthier family, sure you may go to a slightly better school, but school really does not make much difference which one you go to.
My brother went to a private school, he did badly, went to a public school, did slightly better. Not much difference. It is all about your attitude and your work ethic.
The ghetto? Why is that different to any other part of the world? Yes, street crime is up. But why would that make a difference to someone's education and someone's focus on being rich (if they want to be) or successful in there career. Colleges will take anyone willing to learn and with some research into the subject. You only have to try hard to achieve. It's all about what you want to achieve and working hard at reaching your goal.

I didn't realise I am the only one that thinks this :P, don't mean to offend anyone really. Just saying what I think, don't hate.

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Paranoia
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:14:29 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:08 PM, SweetSkater wrote:
At 10/3/08 02:00 PM, Xeptic wrote: rofl (unless that was sarcasm), Paranoia is quite right in saying that someone from a wealthy background has a much higher chance of becoming successful than someone from a lower class. Taking a look at a ghetto and the crime rate/avarage income or future prospectives for kids from such a lower part of town would probably show that (will have to look from some articles on that later tonight). And yes, people with a higher income should be taxed more, simply because they can afford to be taxed more without seriously decreasing their living standards.
No, that was not sarcasm.
Obviously richer people are taxed more because there incomes are higher, but the % should stay the same, why should richer people be punished for reaching the top?

Punished for reaching the top? How does having slightly less money than you would without a fair tax system, but still way more than people below you, count as getting 'punished'. Earning more money is enough on its own - you don't need to exacerbate the gap between rich and poor.

You guys should be relieved that how much money you have isn't proportional to the effort you put into work. If it was, sweatshop workers would be about the only people in the world who could afford internet access.


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Will
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:26:30 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:14 PM, Paranoia wrote: Punished for reaching the top? How does having slightly less money than you would without a fair tax system, but still way more than people below you, count as getting 'punished'. Earning more money is enough on its own - you don't need to exacerbate the gap between rich and poor.

You guys should be relieved that how much money you have isn't proportional to the effort you put into work. If it was, sweatshop workers would be about the only people in the world who could afford internet access.

It is a punishment if they are taking your hard earned money, just because you are richer than them. And the reason you are richer than them is because you work harder than them, you have the right work ethic, the right motive, and the right ideas. You were the person that pushed the boundaries and became good enough at your job to become the owner of a business. So maybe they don't work as hard any more? Why should they work hard and get taxed more because they have reached there goal. I think this is the point in capitalism, the chance of being wealthier than someone else because you have worked harder and have more work ethic.
I don't believe in sweatshop workers and thankfully it does not happen in the UK.
I agree that if you are born in an incredibly poor situation in a 3rd world country, and you have no education or means for knowledge, you are screwed. But that is not the point here, we are living in a developing technological society that gives anyone the right to work hard and achieve wealth.

So no, they should not be taxed more than any other person's income percentage.
And to be honest, most very rich people do donate money to charities and give back to their community they struggled in.


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Coaly
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:30:05 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:08 PM, SweetSkater wrote: I didn't realise I am the only one that thinks this :P, don't mean to offend anyone really. Just saying what I think, don't hate.

The point is, while I think everyone has opportunities to better themselves, not everyone has equal opportunities or of equal size, and the reason they don't is because of where they were born and into what family they were born, not because of their work ethic or will or anything. Also the current state of wealth distribution is insane. If you agree on these two things, which I'd be surprised if you didn't, then you'd be inclined to agree that a gradual income tax is fair... which I think was the original topic.

Also, that bed picture was awesome.


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Will
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:38:34 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:34 PM, citricsquid wrote: um no. Background has everything to do with it. If you're from a dirt poor family who can't afford to feed their cat anything but their own faeces, then how are you going to get a job as a CEO at a major corporation? You're not, you'd be discriminated against and end up in a low end job.

Everyone in the UK has an education, everyone has the chance to become the CEO at a major corporation. Why should this kid be put down because he is poor? Loads of people from poor backgrounds become wealthy, and yes, it is all about work ethic, attitude, determination, and will-power. Obviously if you are disabled and can not think for yourself then you cannot. But EVERYONE can achieve what they want.
What advantage does a rich person have? Really?
education- free.
college - free.
uni - get a loan, interest free.

What is stopping a poor person then?


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Will
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:41:09 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:39 PM, citricsquid wrote:
At 10/3/08 02:38 PM, SweetSkater wrote: What is stopping a poor person then?
You think it's that simple? Just get up and go and succeed? Good luck.

Explain your reasons why this would not work? If you know where you want to get to, why not?


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Coaly
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:47:41 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:41 PM, SweetSkater wrote: Explain your reasons why this would not work? If you know where you want to get to, why not?

Richer people can afford to send their children to better schools than poorer people, and if you think that it doesn't matter what school you go to, that's just faulty reasoning, if 2 people apply for a job, and everything about them is the same, except the school they went to, who do you think is getting the job? The person who went to the better school.


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Paranoia
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:48:17 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:38 PM, SweetSkater wrote: What advantage does a rich person have? Really?
education- free.
college - free.
uni - get a loan, interest free.

What is stopping a poor person then?

That's an incredibly naiive attitude. If education was really independant from background, you wouldn't have situations of middle-class parents flooding to buy houses near better-performing schools, while poorer families become priced out and destined for more and more apathetic edication.

That's not even covering public and private establishments, which pretty much set their pupils up to get into Oxbridge, and dive into well-paid jobs after that.

Besides, how do you know that everyone's not putting in an equal amount of effort to do well anyway? It's not like we can all be CEOs. Who would we be in charge of?


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ImpendingRiot
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:55:07 Reply

Do you silly sacks understand percentage?

The percentage makes shit proportionate...and therefore they work. Proportionate to their wealth, the rich are out just as much as the poor and that's why a flat rate is the most viable option.

"Oh, oh, don't take my hard earned money"

Shut the hell up, oh no now you can't afford diamond studded anal beads. Get over it.

What it boils down to is greed. If any one of you can say that if you made $5,000,000 and lost lets say $250,000 of it to taxes you'd feel poor or like you got a short end of a stick, well you're just a greedy little son of a bitch :D

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT TONS OF PEOPLE HAVE WORKED HARD FOR THEIR MILLIONS.

Paris Hilton makes a sex tape.

OJ Simpson writes a book "If I did it"

Halliburton

Marty Moneybags outsources some jobs to save a few bucks.

WalMart rapes the consumers and costs us a shit load of money a year. CITE YOUR SOURCES LOL
----

Read The Great Gatsby for christs sake. If you honestly think everyone is given the same chance you're sadly mistaken.

If you don't think being white or having a nice pair of tits helps with the work ladder you're sadly mistaken.

This whole "anyone can make it" thing is just a pipe dream to satisfy people working that dead end job while the rich receive crazy tax exemptions and manipulations because they're jerking off the government with lobbyists.

Obviously yes there are exceptions, good people can make a lot of money. Then again, good people really wouldn't care if they had to give up some of it to make other peoples lives better.

From the mountains, toooo the prairies....

Word to your mother

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Depredation
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:55:06 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:04 PM, jmtb02 wrote: http://xkcd.com/484/

Hehe, so true :D.

CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE POLITICS, THIS IS NOT THE FORUM.

I've got nothing against discussing it, but this isn't the place. All it's doing is creating arguments in which no one can win.


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Toast
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 14:58:58 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:55 PM, Depredation wrote:
CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE POLITICS, THIS IS NOT THE FORUM.
I've got nothing against discussing it, but this isn't the place. All it's doing is creating arguments in which no one can win.

no. im fucking tired of people telling me/us what to talk about in this thread. The politics forum is where all the politics dude hang out, the flash reg lounge is our own little space where we can talk about whatever we want. I find it more interesting to debate politics with someone I "know" like paranoia rather than with liberalduck3124. If everyone's talking about politics it means it's an interesting topic atm


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glomph
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:00:34 Reply

At 10/3/08 06:55 AM, Paranoia wrote:

Nobody wants to go down the totalitarian route to Communism, but there's no reason why government can't promote individual freedom while maintaining a strict control on industry so some greedy asshole doesn't clusterfuck everyone beneath him to get even more money.

Sadly if you were to tax the rich at say 50%(this is in answer to previous discussion more not the quoted text) they would all just leave your county and take your economy with them. Then you would have to go hard core socialist. Any given capitalist state needs the rich people with its current system.

Not that I don't agree in theory.


I have done the deed. Didst thou not hear a noise?

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ImpendingRiot
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:01:13 Reply

Oh and just because I was a little unclear because I got swept up in the magic, my percentage being fair thing was IF people were taxed with a flat rate it would be fair. I think right now taxation is broken because the rich have their bottoms powdered.


Word to your mother

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Coaly
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:02:56 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:55 PM, Depredation wrote: CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE POLITICS, THIS IS NOT THE FORUM.

Yea you're right I guess, but the reg lounge can talk about whatever. Usually we don't let topics take up more than a few pages, and this one is dying down.

I've got nothing against discussing it, but this isn't the place. All it's doing is creating arguments in which no one can win.

Well that's actually entirely incorrect, it's like convincing someone the earth is rotating around the sun, you can't prove it with words really, but rather scientific data, mexifry and sweetskater are rolling around in the sweet butter that is refuting our statements with false statements and backing up beliefs with beliefs. I did actually present data, but they both decided to overlook that. This argument is getting old for me though, simply because I don't have the patience to constantly restate the truth.


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Luis
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:08:05 Reply

Is Breast best?
I was wandering the web as I usually do.. and I've always found it humorous how obsessed some people have gotten with the 'go green' attitude. I found this article about a restaurant that is going green, by easing the dependencies on cows and instead using human breast milk in its recipies that call for milk.

I found that kind of strange to be consuming other peoples liquids.... anyway food for thought! (no pun intended)

Happy Friday!!!


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ImpendingRiot
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:12:31 Reply

That is disgusting. Whilst some woman are attractive, others are hideous. Having to ponder what love bag lactated my meal is a disturbing thought. Granted cows are not the most slightly creatures, they all typically look the same so my expectations are quite low.


Word to your mother

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:14:06 Reply

Can't you get HIV from someones with HIV breast milk?

Luis
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:18:00 Reply

Purposely brainless collab

Ok I was wandering YET AGAIN... and i ran across TheBoogley's userpage and in it he has these fun morphing creatures. If you've ever animated anything or are at all in touch with that aspect of flash you'd know that morphing things are one of the funnest exercizes you can do in flash... i dunno what fun timewasters programmers might have when they actionscript but to an animator this is one of those things. Anyway i was interested in making a purposely low standard collab where you just pass this file around and just have people morph and morph and morph... like very experimental shit that syncs to a track yet really has no sense of direction.. There would be something quite exciting / acid trip like about having a movie where you arent steering anyone through anything but what the last person has done and what the audio piece has in store for you.

It wouldnt win any sort of 'Deepest movie' award but itd be alot of fun / low commitment / unpredictable piece. What do you guys think bout that?

I'm seriously considering making that the next pass my flash... and itd literally be more passy than the other two installments.


None

KaynSlamdyke
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:19:42 Reply

Oh for gods sake. Someone call us all nazis and lets move the frag on from this conversation
I think we've covered the points. Us dirty liberals believe that some people simply can't reach the top from the gutter because the system is actually stacked against them succeeding in a society that isn't a pure meritocracy and is choked in greedy selfserving beuraucracy, and the respectful conservatives believe in equal proportionate taxes because they're sure that everyone is born with equal opportunities and shouldn't use thier background as an excuse for thier own shortcomings, that the beuraucracy helps more than it hinders and that proportionate taxes are less of an incentive for success.

Hell we're all wrong. But consider. Taxing rich people more money is a greater benefit and for the greater good because it helps more people. Are we saying that people need to be helped less, or helped in different ways?

XKCD
Thanks John for posting it. Aren't we all special... :)


...

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Coaly
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:20:35 Reply

At 10/3/08 03:14 PM, UnknownFury wrote: Can't you get HIV from someones with HIV breast milk?

Yah probably plus it's kind of gross... If they told me they were using breast milk I'd just leave... also I don't think easing our dependency on cows is the answer to saving our planet.


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Will
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:25:04 Reply

At 10/3/08 03:02 PM, Coaly wrote: I did actually present data, but they both decided to overlook that. This argument is getting old for me though, simply because I don't have the patience to constantly restate the truth.
Coaly : Richer people can afford to send their children to better schools than poorer people, and if you
think that it doesn't matter what school you go to, that's just faulty reasoning, if 2 people apply for a job,
and everything about them is the same, except the school they went to, who do you think is getting the
job? The person who went to the better school.

I'm sorry, my mistake, your 'fact' went amiss. The person with the best attitude and best CV would clearly go through. And about university's, does the school you went to really matter?
You can go to any university you want with the right grades, no matter how poor. And the government will loan anyone money, in fact they give poor people money. I would get no money from the government. It doesn't immediately mean I am going to fail.

At 10/3/08 03:02 PM, citricsquid wrote: I think his day must go something like so:
Wake up to pancakes from his servant and then skip downstairs to the swimming pool, do a couple of laps and then pop to his personal gym where he does a bit of a workout, then he heads to work in his car made of candyfloss along a road of chocolate and wild berries, once at work he's greeted by everyone happily, hugs and love all around with a 2 hour gormet lunch etc.

Ah yes, he goes to sarcasm when he cant think of anything else to say. Typical Sam. Go phish more.

At 10/3/08 02:56 PM, ArthurGhostly wrote: How has your faith in the world not been crushed, yet?

I still believe in capitalism.

At 10/3/08 02:48 PM, Paranoia wrote: Besides, how do you know that everyone's not putting in an equal amount of effort to do well anyway? It's not like we can all be CEOs. Who would we be in charge of?

It's because of people that don't believe in themselves, they don't believe they can make it, so they don't even try to. They go for the easier option of a basic job, they have no motivation.
This is where attitudes and strong personality come in. Sure, you probably will lose to a 2 person interview once or twice, but if you keep trying, you will succeed. It's because of people like yours pessimistic attitude towards getting wealthy that you never succeed in it.

This is my last post on the subject, I do understand all of your points, but I just don't agree with them. And you don't have to agree with me either by no means, I just don't want everyone reading this thread to give up hope! And I hope you non-believers get your motivation to succeed back, no matter what ethnicity or social class.

Sorry if I missed anyone out, and sorry to the mods for keeping this subject going a page longer.

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KaynSlamdyke
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:35:32 Reply

Conversation over. Choose a new topic that's not about tax. It's not like any of you remember to fill out your income tax forms from your sponsorship or NG Ads anyway.


...

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RyanPridgeon
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:36:34 Reply

Project

GOD DAMN PROJECT.

I thought we were all gonna be more productive?

If you won't do it yourself, I will have to force it upon you.

>=D


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PM me for anything flash or web related or visit my blog!!

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Toast
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:41:13 Reply

yea what happened to productivity day?


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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:41:39 Reply

At 10/3/08 02:58 PM, Toast wrote:
At 10/3/08 02:55 PM, Depredation wrote:
CAN WE PLEASE STOP WITH THE POLITICS, THIS IS NOT THE FORUM.
I've got nothing against discussing it, but this isn't the place. All it's doing is creating arguments in which no one can win.
no. im fucking tired of people telling me/us what to talk about in this thread. The politics forum is where all the politics dude hang out, the flash reg lounge is our own little space where we can talk about whatever we want. I find it more interesting to debate politics with someone I "know" like paranoia rather than with liberalduck3124.

youre only partly right about that. YES you can talk about whatever you want. But as a flash reg lounge its important that we just graze these deep topics. Ok we've all stated opinions and at times created new points to slug at each other in this whole social class debate..now we are moving on. As moderators we are MODERATING the flow of the room to zoom back out to a less intense topic.

If you are not ready to move on.. or want to go into more in depth with other people who were part of the 3-4 page discussion well click on the PM link and persue it on your own time offfline. THE END.

lets just agree to disagree and move on to breast milk. lmao.


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ImpendingRiot
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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:45:35 Reply

At 10/3/08 03:41 PM, Luis wrote:
lets just agree to disagree and move on to breast milk. lmao.

I am fond of the scene in Meet The Parents, a comedy film, where Robert DeNiro comically accuses Ben Stiller of MILKING a cat. HOW crazy is that?


Word to your mother

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Response to The Flash 'Reg' Lounge 2008-10-03 15:45:55 Reply

At 10/3/08 03:41 PM, Toast wrote: yea what happened to productivity day?

Oh fuck. Thanks for reminding him.

Now we can expect the reg lounge to be locked by 9.


I make flashes because I can.
PM me for anything flash or web related or visit my blog!!

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