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At 3/18/03 04:11 PM, Veggiemeal wrote: Ok, i'm a vegetarian (pretty obvious i guess), and i'll tell you just why:

So that when i go to heaven (or whatever) i can say i've never killed someone in cold blood.

MEAT IS MURDER!!!!

Since when is a cow a someone and not a something. Animals don't have souls and were put on this planet for us to eat.

At 3/24/03 10:43 AM, redneckking wrote: Since when is a cow a someone and not a something. Animals don't have souls and were put on this planet for us to eat.

That's a typical REDNECK opinion. Cow's have souls, but you are just to selfish and companced to see that. Go to the barn and have sex with your relatives, stupid hillybilly!

Well, if we are talking biblical, Animals, DO have souls, but they don’t have immortal souls like we do.

And if you want to bring up Christian… If we don’t need meat, why did God send Manna AND quail to food the Israelites? Clearly God agree with the respected medical community majority that vegetarian diets are unhealthy and that humans need meat.

God does not exist, and even if he does, he's a complete dickhead, so his opinion does NOT count!

Really? And would you please tell us why you feel this way? Calling God a “dickhead”? Um, I’m going to pretend you didn’t use that predictable wording, and give you the benefit of the doubt.

At 3/24/03 03:19 PM, Veggiemeal wrote: God does not exist, and even if he does, he's a complete dickhead, so his opinion does NOT count!

God DOES exist, living things cannot be made out of things that were never living. Why? Have you ever seen a cells structure, even more important have you seen the structure of DNA. I believe in evolution but not the big bang. If you know anything about supermassive black holes you wouldnt belive it either. As for souls, I do not believe in them. I do however belive in the concious mind and I do not think an animal has a conscious mind unless it has insight. AS for an earlier comment humans have 99% of the DNA in common with chimpanzees which is more than chimpanzees have in common with apes but 99% of your DNA still leaves a helluva lot of DNA, we share somewhere around 80% of our DNA with cows.

At 3/18/03 04:11 PM, Veggiemeal wrote:

Ok, i'm a vegetarian (pretty obvious i guess), and i'll tell you just why:

So that when i go to heaven (or whatever) i can say i've never killed someone in cold blood.

MEAT IS MURDER!!!!

Since when is a cow a someone and not a something. Animals don't have souls and were put on this planet for us to eat.

So you dont believe in god but uyou do believe in heaven... Thats just stupid.

There is another reason to become a vegetarian other than the fact that it's healthy and good for animals. The factory farms in the United States use %50 of the nation's water supply and %20 of our power resources. If everyone in the country becomes a vegetarian today (not bloody likely, this is hypothetically) then we would have no water shortages and no blackouts anywhere. The government would also have a lot more money, billions are spent on water and power, saving the country from the budget defecit. There are environmental, economical, and social reasons to become a vegetarian. Still... Burger King Whoppers are pretty fucking good.

At 3/24/03 11:21 PM, OpIvy420 wrote: There is another reason to become a vegetarian other than the fact that it's healthy and good for animals. The factory farms in the United States use %50 of the nation's water supply and %20 of our power resources. If everyone in the country becomes a vegetarian today (not bloody likely, this is hypothetically) then we would have no water shortages and no blackouts anywhere. The government would also have a lot more money, billions are spent on water and power, saving the country from the budget defecit. There are environmental, economical, and social reasons to become a vegetarian. Still... Burger King Whoppers are pretty fucking good.

Yeah, it would be even more benefit to the world if we would just stop eating all together, who is willing to jump at the chance for that? Aside from adolescence girls, that is.

Cow's have souls, but you are just to selfish and companced to see that.

What does "companced" mean? I looked it up in the dictionary and it wasn't there.

Go to the barn and have sex with your relatives, stupid hillybilly!

This doesn't even count as an ad hominem argument, it's just an outright insult. If you have to resort to this sort of thing to make your alleged point, isn't that a sign you're grasping at straws? Oh, and I'd like to hear you answer my previous post near the middle of page two.

I'll say it again, I don't care what you eat, but I do object to being called a murderer.

At 3/25/03 02:43 AM, OlenWhitaker wrote:

Cow's have souls, but you are just to selfish and companced to see that.

What does "companced" mean? I looked it up in the dictionary and it wasn't there.

I'd like to know the same thing.

Go to the barn and have sex with your relatives, stupid hillybilly!

This doesn't even count as an ad hominem argument, it's just an outright insult. If you have to resort to this sort of thing to make your alleged point, isn't that a sign you're grasping at straws? Oh, and I'd like to hear you answer my previous post near the middle of page two.

*lol* Olen, you've just hit the nail on the head. It happens so often, it's not even funny. Insults do not aid in making valid points.

I'd really like to know what sort of spiritual beliefs Veggiemeal has. It may be in the last three pages...but I can't be arsed to read through all that.

At 3/23/03 11:53 PM, MuscleHed wrote: Say what? What? The Bones? What? Are you joking? Medical Text books document the importance of eating animal meat! I have never read anything ever saying Protein is stored in the bones!

Listen to what I am saying! I am not saying protein is stored on the bones. I am saying the amino acids from meat causes the bone to break down to provide enough alkaline meterials to nutralize the acids. Your medical textbook should have plenty of info concorning acid nutralization to prove my point. The body then pisses out the bone's calcium. Furthmore, what I am saying has been documented by independent reasearchers: A University of Chicago study in 1992 found that big eaters of meat lost an average of 90mg of calcium per day, while a 2003 study done by the University of Applied Sciences in Germany examined vegan's intake of calcium vs calcium pissed out and found that vegans gained on balance 119mg of calcium a day. Lemme see your studies.

No, I am informing you as to what the Scientific Method is. It is a process by which we prove or disprove theories. Studies are only one of the steps. Studies are a part of the Method, please tell me your not trying to argue with of all things! Vegetarianism, yes, we can argue that intelligibly, but every 5th grade science student learns the Scientific method! Again, I ask you to show me these studies! We can quote scientific finds all day, but I want to see some documented proof! Besides, there is just as many studies saying Vegetarianism is unhealthy, so it’s a 2 edged sword.

A study is an application of the scientific method. It goes from stateing the problem to analysis. All that is left is drawing conclusions. Hmmm, documented calcium loss of people who eat vs vs. vegans gaining calcium. Conclusion: a vegetarian diet is good for you. You want another study? Sure, I got plenty. HOw about the much publizized China health study done by Cornell and Oxford studies that looked at the effects of availibility of meat is certain areas. The results? To quote T. Colin, Ph.D:"The China Health Project's Primary finding is that the Chinese who eat the least
fat and animal products have substantially lower rates of cancer, heart attack, and several other chronic
degenerative diseases."

Never heard of that. That is the first time I have ever heard someone say Chicken, when prepared properly, is unhealthy!

Simply because you never heard it before doesn't make it untrue. The arguement still stands.

As for Carl Lewis, let me ask you with, when did he win his Gold Medals? In the 1984 Olympics he own four gold medals, the first from the100. With a burst that was clocked at 28 mph at the finish, Lewis won by eight feet, a record. He had a 10-year unbeaten streak in all events, till the 1991 World Championships, he got owned by Mike Powell. He started his vagen diet in 1990. The point is, in the 1980’s, when he was still an omnivore, he won more races, and by a much widen margin. He is still a great athlete, but he got progressive worst as he started eating his new diet. He made the hall of fame in 1984, and not 1990 or any time later.

You need to check your facts before you post something like this. He set the world record for the 100-meter dash, won two gold medals, and had the best long jump series of his career while on the diet. I get this tidbet from Runner's World, 1992 edition. Furthermore, the diet hasn't been weakening him, he even saidn in a interview that his best year in athletics was when he started the diet. He also continues to tour the country and explain the merits of a vegan diet. Now, if it weaken him, why is he such a proponet of a vegan diet?

Bro, look up “gorilla diet” on a search engine, and look for a Zoology or otherwise scientific site, not a vegan site, and they will confirm what I have said. Gorilla’s diet are different because their philology is different. Call me when you have black hair growing all over your body and you can climb trees with your toes!

I got bored. I looked up "gorilla diet" on Yahoo. I found more then a barginned for: Go to http://www.scienceupdate.com/april00.html
and click on April 13. It explains all you need to know. The larger colon simply allows the ape to be stronger than a man. Even with our small colon, we can get our nessesary protein from plants, like our ancestors who we share 99.9% of our DNA with.

Is it? Really? Show me, and NOT in a Vegetarian site, either. Show me in a Scientific site! I just finished looking though “the Textbook of Medical Physiology” by Arthur C. Guyton, M.D., and it said nothing about Protein being stored in the bones. Are you telling me the foremost textbook for medical knowledge is wrong and you are right? Product some proof, buddy, or don’t quote science!

I'm not sayign the foremost medical knowlege is wrong, as I have shown foremost medical science supports my side. Maybe you should read that textbook more closly and read about how the body neutralized the sufuric acid formed from animo acids. The only conclusive study showing a porblem with vegetarianism is showing how vegan diets lack B12. An so, I suggestto all vegetarians to taek B12 suppliments, like what I'm doing.

At 3/25/03 12:12 PM, Veggiemeal wrote: MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MUR DERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDER ER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MUR DERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDER ER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MUR DERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDER ER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER! MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!MUR DERER!MURDERER!MURDERER!

Wow, what a compelling argument. I'm convinced.</sarcasm>

I repeat my challenge. Intellectually answer my previous post, if you can. If you can't, well, I guess you can go on spewing random, emotional outbursts 'til you're blue in the face.
Or am I just too "companced" to understand your subtleties?

At 3/25/03 12:26 PM, Disguy_youknow wrote:

Listen to what I am saying! I am not saying protein is stored on the bones. I am saying the amino acids from meat causes the bone to break down to provide enough alkaline meterials to nutralize the acids. Your medical textbook should have plenty of info concorning acid nutralization to prove my point. The body then pisses out the bone's calcium. Furthmore, what I am saying has been documented by independent reasearchers: A University of Chicago study in 1992 found that big eaters of meat lost an average of 90mg of calcium per day, while a 2003 study done by the University of Applied Sciences in Germany examined vegan's intake of calcium vs calcium pissed out and found that vegans gained on balance 119mg of calcium a day. Lemme see your studies.

I am listening to what you said, this is the first time you said THAT! Thank you for phasing it so those of us who don’t speak vagen can make since of it! Neutralize Amino Acids? Not all Acids need to be neutralized! Do we neutralize DNA? What about RNA? What about stomach bile? Is that neutralized? No, no, and no. The reason the amino acids caused calcium loss is because protein, calcium, and minerals require the fat-soluble vitamins A and D for their assimilation and utilization by the body. When protein is consumed without these factors, it screws up the normal biochemistry of the human body and causes nutrient and mineral loss. Yeah, sure the meat eater lose more calcium, because the don’t eat a complete and proper diet! Studies? You want studies? I can give you more then studies, these are proven facts!

A study is an application of the scientific method. It goes from stateing the problem to analysis. All that is left is drawing conclusions. Hmmm, documented calcium loss of people who eat vs vs. vegans gaining calcium. Conclusion: a vegetarian diet is good for you. You want another study? Sure, I got plenty. HOw about the much publizized China health study done by Cornell and Oxford studies that looked at the effects of availibility of meat is certain areas. The results? To quote T. Colin, Ph.D:"The China Health Project's Primary finding is that the Chinese who eat the least

fat and animal products have substantially lower rates of cancer, heart attack, and several other chronic
degenerative diseases."

I heard the say study about the Japanese who eat mostly fish. Just skip the studies, just some meat (pardon the pun) to sink our teeth into! Some fact. One or 2 studies doesn’t mean crap! You need to read the book “How to Lie With Statistics” by Darrell Huff, Irving Geis. This book will make you understand how Studies are just that, studies. Nothing concrete is proven by one or 2 studies. Just read the book…

Never heard of that. That is the first time I have ever heard someone say Chicken, when prepared properly, is unhealthy!

Simply because you never heard it before doesn't make it untrue. The arguement still stands.

Ok, I’ll give you that. I just figured with all the propagand about Beef beign unhealthy being spread around, we would here a thing or 2 about the chicken being bad for us!

You need to check your facts before you post something like this. He set the world record for the 100-meter dash, won two gold medals, and had the best long jump series of his career while on the diet. I get this tidbet from Runner's World, 1992 edition. Furthermore, the diet hasn't been weakening him, he even saidn in a interview that his best year in athletics was when he started the diet. He also continues to tour the country and explain the merits of a vegan diet. Now, if it weaken him, why is he such a proponet of a vegan diet?

Check YOUR facts, the majority of the gold metals he won where in the 80’s, before the vagen diet. But, he is getting old, and it is expected that he would be slowing down, so I will give you this one. Still doesn’t account for the millions of those Athletes who break records and win contests on all meat diets, though!

Bro, look up “gorilla diet” on a search engine, and look for a Zoology or otherwise scientific site, not a vegan site, and they will confirm what I have said. Gorilla’s diet are different because their philology is different. Call me when you have black hair growing all over your body and you can climb trees with your toes!

I got bored. I looked up "gorilla diet" on Yahoo. I found more then a barginned for: Go to http://www.scienceupdate.com/april00.html
and click on April 13. It explains all you need to know. The larger colon simply allows the ape to be stronger than a man. Even with our small colon, we can get our nessesary protein from plants, like our ancestors who we share 99.9% of our DNA with.

Is it? Really? Show me, and NOT in a Vegetarian site, either. Show me in a Scientific site! I just finished looking though “the Textbook of Medical Physiology” by Arthur C. Guyton, M.D., and it said nothing about Protein being stored in the bones. Are you telling me the foremost textbook for medical knowledge is wrong and you are right? Product some proof, buddy, or don’t quote science!

That radio show is where I first learned about the Gorilla junk, when one of the guys I train asked the question ,we searched, and find that. They say the motivations in the Digestive system are the reason we can digest vegetables and fruits, and the Digestive system is a result of years of evolution we humans don’t have! Listen to is again!

I'm not sayign the foremost medical knowlege is wrong, as I have shown foremost medical science supports my side. Maybe you should read that textbook more closly and read about how the body neutralized the sufuric acid formed from animo acids. The only conclusive study showing a porblem with vegetarianism is showing how vegan diets lack B12. An so, I suggestto all vegetarians to taek B12 suppliments, like what I'm doing.

See above, I already covered this. All I have to add is, if you have to take a pill to fix the kinks in your diet plan, there is something wrong with your diet plan.

I don't think you guys are paying attention, so I believe you need to read this again. AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE FIGHTING FOR THE PLANTS? I mean, seriously, they can't even fight back!! *goes off to hug a tree*

At 3/23/03 12:44 AM, kittie_cross wrote: Question: If we weren't meant to eat the animals, then why are they made of meat? And... how many vegitables had to die for your stupid salad? I mean, c'mon man! At least the animals can fight back (by that, I mean wild animals... i.e. hunting; the real way meat should be harvested!)! Remember, plants ar eliving creatures too... they grow and reproduce, and have feelings and can communicate! Don't believe me? Turn Pagan and go talk to a damn tree! They don't like being cut down, but hey, we need them, don't we?

...once again, just my stupid, unwanted opinion... v_v

At 3/26/03 12:32 AM, kittie_cross wrote: I don't think you guys are paying attention, so I believe you need to read this again. AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE FIGHTING FOR THE PLANTS? I mean, seriously, they can't even fight back!! *goes off to hug a tree*

You will carry an %80 chace of surviving off of just fruit.

At 3/26/03 01:42 PM, mattymetro wrote:

At 3/26/03 12:32 AM, kittie_cross wrote: I don't think you guys are paying attention, so I believe you need to read this again. AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE FIGHTING FOR THE PLANTS? I mean, seriously, they can't even fight back!! *goes off to hug a tree*

You will carry an %80 chace of surviving off of just fruit.

I have to ask you the mandatory question: Where is your proof?

Beside, only an 80% chance? When your life and health are at stake, I’d rather just eat a healthy, well-balanced diet and give my self a 100% chance of surviving.