Former Nazi Camp Guard Deported

[lapis]

This story sort of intrigued me:

"She lived alone in a tiny, top-floor apartment in one of the tougher sections of San Francisco. At 83, she was short and a bit stout. Diabetes took the sight in one of her eyes; arthritis left her leaning heavily on a cane. For long trips, she took a taxi.

Her husband had died. He was the love of her long life, a short, dapper man who had worked as a bartender and waiter at some of the city's larger hotels and was active in Jewish activities. They buried him in a Jewish cemetery outside the city.

He had been gone just a short while when two officials from the Justice Department in Washington knocked on her door. They confronted her with a terrible secret that all these years she had managed to keep from him.

In Germany during World War II, a much younger Elfriede Lina Rinkel, then single, a girl with blue eyes and striking red hair, had worked as an SS guard at one of the Nazi regime's infamous concentration camps. Called Ravensbruck, it was a slave labor prison for women, and during the year she worked there with a trained attack dog more than 10,000 women died. (...)"

She lied about her past in Ravensbruck on her application form, yet she was 83 when the Justice Department discovered her secret and she had done a lot to redeem herself. Is it really necessary to deport an elderly citizen while she still faces charges back in Germany for being employed in a concentration camp? She only had a menial function in the camp, is this crime unforgivable enough to deport her 47 years after applying for a visa? Is atonement impossible for a misdeed like this? I think not.

[Peregrinus]

If she's changed her life around, I don't see why you should bother deporting her. She's old. She won't last through the trial in all likelyness.

Just let her die in peace. Then let god sort her out.

[Demosthenez]

Why waste resources even tracking people down like this? And she married a Jewish dude and is being deported for being in the SS? You couldnt write this shit, it is just to unreal.

[Politics]

They deported her for lying on her passport, no? I'm not familiar with American deportation laws, but this doesn't seem to be any sort of violation of rights. Unless she would have never been able to enter the country with an honest entry into her passport information, I see no problem.

That is, other than the lack of morals in deporting an old lady for very little apparent reason, but that's given.

[Begoner]

She posed no threat to the country whatsoever -- it is completely nihilistic to track down octogenerians who committed a very slight, victimless transgression half a century ago and subject them to cruel punishment. Not to mention that it's a horrendous waste of money tracking down people like this.

[stafffighter]

At 9/21/06 07:17 PM, Begoner wrote: She posed no threat to the country whatsoever -- it is completely nihilistic to track down octogenerians who committed a very slight, victimless transgression half a century ago and subject them to cruel punishment. Not to mention that it's a horrendous waste of money tracking down people like this.

Maybe it was just a small, friendly consentration camp?

[BeFell]

Um... do you guys understand what a concentration camp was? No it wasn't some place they sent you for six weeks during the summer if you were having a hard time paying attention in school.

[Begoner]

Maybe it was just a small, friendly consentration camp?

Yes, I'm sure she would have gone on a taxi and started killing Jews any moment if we hadn't deported her. I mean, she waited 47 years for her chance -- she posed an imminent danger to the US, much like Saddam did.

[stafffighter]

At 9/21/06 07:32 PM, Begoner wrote:

Yes, I'm sure she would have gone on a taxi and started killing Jews any moment if we hadn't deported her. I mean, she waited 47 years for her chance -- she posed an imminent danger to the US, much like Saddam did.

So your theory is that if you get away with it for a set amount of time, you win?

[BeFell]

At 9/21/06 07:32 PM, Begoner wrote:

Maybe it was just a small, friendly consentration camp?

Yes, I'm sure she would have gone on a taxi and started killing Jews any moment if we hadn't deported her. I mean, she waited 47 years for her chance -- she posed an imminent danger to the US, much like Saddam did.

Don't be stupid. Knowingly allowing somebody who played a part in the greatest attrocity in human history to live free just because they reached some arbitrary age is effectively saying "well I guess this person is a little more significant than all those who died."

Personally I think they should hang the bitch, her actions should never be tollerated or pardoned.

[Begoner]

So your theory is that if you get away with it for a set amount of time, you win?

Get away with making a slight error on a Visa application? Yes, I do -- she is near death and isn't going to be harming anybody. What do you gain by putting her through a painful ordeal? Nothing. She will just suffer more than is necessary. Why do you want to drag a very old woman through such a terrible process? Let her live out the remainder of her life in peace.

[BeFell]

At 9/21/06 07:40 PM, Begoner wrote:

So your theory is that if you get away with it for a set amount of time, you win?

Get away with making a slight error on a Visa application? Yes, I do -- she is near death and isn't going to be harming anybody. What do you gain by putting her through a painful ordeal? Nothing. She will just suffer more than is necessary. Why do you want to drag a very old woman through such a terrible process? Let her live out the remainder of her life in peace.

Hey dumbass she's not being deported because she lied on her visa, she's being deported because she's a God damn Nazi.

[stafffighter]

At 9/21/06 07:40 PM, Begoner wrote:

So your theory is that if you get away with it for a set amount of time, you win?

Get away with making a slight error on a Visa application? Yes, I do --

Yes, she worked at a place where they cooked you for being an ethnicity and to rationalize your teen agnst you think they got her for the Visa thing.

[Begoner]

Hey dumbass she's not being deported because she lied on her visa, she's being deported because she's a God damn Nazi.

She was married to a Jew for decades and didn't kill him in his sleep. She fled from Germany to freedom in America. Yes, damn that Nazi bitch. Seriously, I bet you're closer to Nazism than she is. Not to mention that you are ignorant of the realities of WWII-era Germany.

[stafffighter]

At 9/21/06 07:46 PM, Begoner wrote:

She was married to a Jew for decades and didn't kill him in his sleep. She fled from Germany to freedom in America. Yes, damn that Nazi bitch. Seriously, I bet you're closer to Nazism than she is. Not to mention that you are ignorant of the realities of WWII-era Germany.

If she's innocent then let it be proven by due process. One would think that being freed from these alligations would do good for an old womans soul.

[fli]

At 9/21/06 07:32 PM, BeFell wrote: Um... do you guys understand what a concentration camp was? No it wasn't some place they sent you for six weeks during the summer if you were having a hard time paying attention in school.

At the same time... not every Nazi out there was a willing person.
Some were children whose parents said, "There's this marvelous program for children... let put them there."

Like soilders:
They can't disobey even if its against their concious... they just need to follow the who ever is the main head dog of war.

I mean...
she was active in the Jewish community... she married a Jew.
I think that says a lot about if she was a willing participating Nazi or a Nazi by default.

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 9/21/06 08:00 PM, fli wrote:

At 9/21/06 07:32 PM, BeFell wrote:

I mean...
she was active in the Jewish community... she married a Jew.
I think that says a lot about if she was a willing participating Nazi or a Nazi by default.

Hell, dude she probally did too.

But still, she was an SS guard for a women's concentration camp, these type of things can't just be left alone.

Justice will decide whether or not she's charged.

[Begoner]

If she's innocent then let it be proven by due process. One would think that being freed from these alligations would do good for an old womans soul.

I'm sure you would love a lengthy trial when you're 83 years old and in very ill health. What do you hope to achieve by torturing an old woman? You can't change the past, and she doesn't deserve pain now for deeds which she committed 50 years ago -- if you punish her, who are you helping? Nobody -- you're only needlessly causing pain.

[stafffighter]

At 9/21/06 08:18 PM, Begoner wrote:

If she's innocent then let it be proven by due process. One would think that being freed from these alligations would do good for an old womans soul.

I'm sure you would love a lengthy trial when you're 83 years old and in very ill health. What do you hope to achieve by torturing an old woman? You can't change the past, and she doesn't deserve pain now for deeds which she committed 50 years ago -- if you punish her, who are you helping? Nobody -- you're only needlessly causing pain.

1 Since when does due process involve torture?

2 Yeah if I had that shit on my soul I'd look forward to having it offically lifted

3 If she is guilty that's not the kind of thing that goes away with time

4 If she is innocent, no punishment

[MortifiedPenguins]

At 9/21/06 08:18 PM, Begoner wrote:

I'm sure you would love a lengthy trial when you're 83 years old and in very ill health. What do you hope to achieve by torturing an old woman? You can't change the past, and she doesn't deserve pain now for deeds which she committed 50 years ago -- if you punish her, who are you helping? Nobody -- you're only needlessly causing pain.

She commited a fucking crime against humanity and if you can get your head out of your ass and start giving a little care for 6 million dead jews then maybe it would help now would it.

Seriously, you are fucking twisted when you let present politics cloud your mind from something like this.

[Begoner]

She commited a fucking crime against humanity and if you can get your head out of your ass and start giving a little care for 6 million dead jews then maybe it would help now would it.

I do care about the 6 million Jews. However, you don't seem to give a rat's ass about the living -- only the dead. Is causing her pain going to bring the dead Jews back to life? No, of course not. Please tell me what you hope to achieve by torturing her. Who are you helping? Nobody; you're only hurting her by making her spend her remaining days in court. You're simply causing pain for the sake of causing pain -- no more, no less. Do you know why we put criminals in prison? Two reasons -- to protect society and to act as a deterrent against other crime. This woman does not fall under either of these criteria. You are doing nothing useful by dragging her through this ordeal. Show a little humanity, for God's sake!

[TigerDemon]

At 9/21/06 08:25 PM, MortifiedPenguins wrote: She commited a fucking crime against humanity and if you can get your head out of your ass and start giving a little care for 6 million dead jews then maybe it would help now would it.

Seriously, you are fucking twisted when you let present politics cloud your mind from something like this.

YES AND SHE COULD HAVE BEEN FUCKING FORCED TO DO IT! Its not like you can say hey well Adolf I dont like the idea so I aint working for you. She clearly did what she had to so that she could live. Hell she may have even helped people escape. Also have any of you dumb fucks heard of a limitation on the time they can convict you of a crime? If you steal something when you are 14 they cant charge you for it when you are 80. She clearly did not agree with what was going on because if she did she never would have married a jewish man.

[BeFell]

At 9/21/06 09:07 PM, FeeFee85 wrote: YES AND SHE COULD HAVE BEEN FUCKING FORCED TO DO IT! Its not like you can say hey well Adolf I dont like the idea so I aint working for you. She clearly did what she had to so that she could live. Hell she may have even helped people escape. Also have any of you dumb fucks heard of a limitation on the time they can convict you of a crime? If you steal something when you are 14 they cant charge you for it when you are 80. She clearly did not agree with what was going on because if she did she never would have married a jewish man.

There's no statute of limitations on murder. There is also a big difference between a kid stealing something an adult facility mass murder.

So what if she married a Jewish man, if I go kill a bunch of black people for being being black then decide I like ghetto booty and go down with a black chick does that automatically erase what I've done.

As far as her being forced to be a Nazi, that's really a matter for the court to decide.

Finally she should be prosecuted as a deterent against anyone thinking about participating in a little bit of harmless genocide because it would send the message we'll get you eventually.

I don't know why you guys feel so bad for her, even if she is convicted and spends her last few remaining years in prison that's still a lot more humane than what the people in those camps went through and she had the opportunity for what many of those poor souls were denied, a rich and full life.

[TigerDemon]

Dude how can you punish a person for something that its clear they were forced to do? You said her being with a jewish man does not make what she did go away and I agree. What it does prove is that SHE DID WHAT SHE DID BECAUSE SHE WAS FORCED TO. How do you know what she did in that camp? Do you know if she personally killed any one? No you dont so you cant call her on murder. She may have had no choice if she wanted to live and keep her family alive. Personally I think that if they would kill your family you would have dont the same thing.

[BeFell]

At 9/21/06 09:32 PM, FeeFee85 wrote: Dude how can you punish a person for something that its clear they were forced to do? You said her being with a jewish man does not make what she did go away and I agree. What it does prove is that SHE DID WHAT SHE DID BECAUSE SHE WAS FORCED TO.

Bullshit, she could have happily tortured thousands before having a change heart the fact is you don't know that's why there should be a trial.

How do you know what she did in that camp? Do you know if she personally killed any one? No you dont so you cant call her on murder. She may have had no choice if she wanted to live and keep her family alive. Personally I think that if they would kill your family you would have dont the same thing.

Can you prove that she was forced to do what she did? Hell no, like I said before this is why you hold a trial.

[stafffighter]

If the woman turns out to be innocent then the process will have proven benificiary for her in that any question of her acts or character will have been answered and can be put to the past.

[troubles1]

Leave grandmaw alone,that was a long time ago she was young and stupid. she changed her ways. I am pretty sure she was not about to go on a Jew killing spree. hell they need to start deporting Arab Muslims, who like to kill Innocent Nuns. not little old grandma's.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 9/21/06 07:17 PM, Begoner wrote: She posed no threat to the country whatsoever

So? She was a criminal, who entered America illegaly.
End of story.

[Memorize]

I'm going to try and make this simple.

You guys are arguing with Begoner, you know, the rebel teen who thinks it's ok for Terrorists to strap on bombs and specifically target civilians while at the same time believes that all US soldiers should be put on trial because an innocent got caught in the crossfire.

Or as Carlos Mencia would say to a person like that: "DER DER DER"

Anyway, to tell the truth i'm more half and half on the topic... however I don't believe anyone should just get away with whatever they want due to age.

[JoS]

At 9/21/06 07:40 PM, Begoner wrote:

So your theory is that if you get away with it for a set amount of time, you win?

Get away with making a slight error on a Visa application?

A slight error on a VISA application would be mis-spelling your name or marking the wrong gender. Lying about being involved with a Nazi concentration camp is not a slight error. One of the questions you get asked, especially comign from germanya orudn the time she did was have you been involved with crimes against humanity and what military service haev you done. Being in the SS alone, never mind actually working at the cmap disqualifies you probally form coming to the US. You can be deported for making flase statements on yrou application. I highly doubt it slipepd her mind that she spent years working at a concentration camp.

The german gov't wants to try her I am assuming. she isnt in shit ofr her VISA, she is in shit for being an SS guard at a concentration camp. She has mroe than likely killed innocent, unarmed civilians. Is the problem people are having with this becuase she is old, or because she is a woman? Or both? Shoudl we send people who took part in the Rwandan genocide back to rwanda to face their crimes? i mean they probally had little choice to do it, and well some of them have made good out of their life.