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If communism was the last stage in socialism, the Soviet Union would not have fallen. Communism is FAILED socilism, which is every attempt at a socialistic society. The closest the world got to a socialist community was some factory town in Scotland I believe, and eventually it got messed up.

A free market federal democratic republic is the safest, most liberated, and least prone to corruption that has been thought up until this point in time. Look at America's economy and civil rights and open questioning of the government, then look at North Korea. And then China (Tianamen Square ring a bell?), or how bout our nice folks over in the Soviet Union. Oh..wait...THEY ARE NOT AROUND ANYMORE, and its their own damned fault.

Democracy ftw.

Communism is failed socialism, and socialism is unrealistic because everybody has to be mindless drones with the exact same wants and needs, and people are not.

Well, America is full of mindless drones to, look at it's president. Americans are pressured to conform instead of being forced like the communists did, but that doesn't really make it that different.

Also considering capitalism outlasted communism in the cold war, thats all the proof you need.

I wouldn't say america outlasted communism, cuba is still communist and will probably stay like that way after america's dollar is beaten by somone. That somone is probably going to be China (who has a long communist history).

At 9/24/06 07:32 PM, Glendale wrote: The closest the world got to a socialist community was some factory town in Scotland I believe, and eventually it got messed up.

Whatcha talkin bout foo?

At 9/25/06 04:36 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 9/24/06 07:32 PM, Glendale wrote: The closest the world got to a socialist community was some factory town in Scotland I believe, and eventually it got messed up.

Whatcha talkin bout foo?

I learned it in history class..dammit I wish I still had my Global History textbook.
*googles quickly*
The town was called New Lanark, it was built around a textile factory. The town founder was David Dale, but thefactory owner, Robert Owen, built houses, schools, and all sorts of necessities for his workers. It was Utopian Socialism at is finest, but unfortunately, it seemed that it could only work on a small scale. From 1786-1968, the factory ran and closed down. In its day, New Lanark was a pilgirmage point for social reformers around the world. Just by current peoples negligence of its existance, however, it proves that Socialism cannot truly happen.

New Lanark is currently a protected site in Scotland.

Think of it this way, if a McDonalds cashier makes the same amount as a doctor, why should the doctor work harder than the cashier for the same amount of money. If everyone is payed the same, people would eventually just accept their pay without working at all. The government has to pay for their salaries, but nobody is working for it. The whole economy eventually falls apart.

At 9/25/06 01:54 PM, ManticoreNight wrote:

Communism is failed socialism, and socialism is unrealistic because everybody has to be mindless drones with the exact same wants and needs, and people are not.

Well, America is full of mindless drones to, look at it's president. Americans are pressured to conform instead of being forced like the communists did, but that doesn't really make it that different.

Then explain why 60% of the country wants his ass out. (Personally, I prefer him to Gore or Kerry)

Also considering capitalism outlasted communism in the cold war, thats all the proof you need.

I wouldn't say america outlasted communism, cuba is still communist and will probably stay like that way after america's dollar is beaten by somone. That somone is probably going to be China (who has a long communist history).

China's economy and political background are too different to coexist. Tolitarianism and free-market capitalism do not mix, and eventually there will be a revolution, and you can bet US dollars will be supporting the rebels. And when Fidel Castro FINALLY dies, one of three things will happen-
1. Communism is overthrown in Cuba, cubans and cuban refugees in the US cheer, good tidings in the carribean.
2. Castro's brother or one of his deputies take charge, eventually the succesor dies, and either #1 or #3 will happen after that.
3. Hugo Chavez comes in to 'stabalize' Cuba and squelches the cheering Cubans. Ameircan forces face off against Venezualian forces, and eventually the US will win, but an oil embargo will take place.

At 9/25/06 05:27 PM, Glendale wrote: New Lanark is currently a protected site in Scotland.

ah-ha!

Thanks for that. I've been to New Lanark a few times, never knew that though.

Although i will say, one example of socialism failing is not outright proof that it will always do so.

At 9/25/06 05:57 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 9/25/06 05:27 PM, Glendale wrote: New Lanark is currently a protected site in Scotland.

ah-ha!

Thanks for that. I've been to New Lanark a few times, never knew that though.

Although i will say, one example of socialism failing is not outright proof that it will always do so.

Yeah, but its the closest humanity has ever got to socialism, to the extent of my knowledge. And I think that it could only work in an independent, small, tightly knit community that fully agrees with the idea of Socialism. Without that...*shrug*

If everybody in the world agreed with Socialism, it would be wonderful. But humans are unique, and there is not a single basic belief that can apply to every single person on the Earth. Not morals and ethics, not the meaning of life, and certainly not an economic system.

At 9/25/06 05:55 PM, Glendale wrote:
Then explain why 60% of the country wants his ass out. (Personally, I prefer him to Gore or Kerry)

If 60% of the country wanted him out than they wouldn't have voted for him last election. And if they just changed their minds since the last election, they probably did it for the wrong reasons. Seeing how he did all the really stupid stuff in his first term.

China's economy and political background are too different to coexist. Tolitarianism and free-market capitalism do not mix, and eventually there will be a revolution, and you can bet US dollars will be supporting the rebels.

Well of course that will happen, but not for quite a while. America will probably get a revolution, or just get a war against them. Well, if they don't clean up their act. And the whole "America would teh tottaly pwn everyone" approch really doesn't apply. I mean most countries have nuclear weapons that could blow america off the earth if they really wanted to. I have a feeling that america is going to start blowing up some bigger countries eventually, and then their gonna feel sorry that they didn't listen to the UN a bit more.

And when Fidel Castro FINALLY dies, one of three things will happen-
1. Communism is overthrown in Cuba, cubans and cuban refugees in the US cheer, good tidings in the carribean.
2. Castro's brother or one of his deputies take charge, eventually the succesor dies, and either #1 or #3 will happen after that.
3. Hugo Chavez comes in to 'stabalize' Cuba and squelches the cheering Cubans. Ameircan forces face off against Venezualian forces, and eventually the US will win, but an oil embargo will take place.

Well, number two is probably going to happen anyway. And you don't think that Castro's brother will give Cuba to somone else. I mean I don't think Chavez would have to "stabalize" Cuba at all. Raul (Castro's brother) might just give it him. It's like the queen, when she dies, she gives it to a relitive. Monarcy is alot like dictatorship like that.

And I trully doubt that any cubans will over throw the government, the last time they did was when Castro got in, and just look at how long ago that was.

At 9/25/06 01:54 PM, ManticoreNight wrote: Well, America is full of mindless drones to, look at it's president. Americans are pressured to conform instead of being forced like the communists did, but that doesn't really make it that different.

America is full of hundreds and thousands of different viewpoints, none of which are stifled. On one end you have Tammy Bruce...a pro-choice, lesbian, gun carrying republican, then you have ann coulter, then you have jerry falwell, then you have mel gibson, then bush. And this is just five people on the right side of politics. Anyone who says Americans have one viewpoint hasn't paid attention.

I wouldn't say america outlasted communism, cuba is still communist and will probably stay like that way after america's dollar is beaten by somone. That somone is probably going to be China (who has a long communist history).

Cubans also flee the system in droves. If cuba wasn't getting world support it would've collapsed already. And China is becoming more and more capitalistic. The day China overtakes us...is when China becomes more capitalistic than us. That'll also be the day their citizens have a better standard of life.

At 9/25/06 05:55 PM, Glendale wrote: Then explain why 60% of the country wants his ass out. (Personally, I prefer him to Gore or Kerry)

This comes from someone who doesn't like Bush.
60% of the country wants him out because the media has lied for years about him. HE CAUSED 9/11. IRAQ WAS FOR OIL. Etc. Even disagreeing with him, he's a far better president than Clinton.

At 9/25/06 05:57 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 9/25/06 05:27 PM, Glendale wrote: New Lanark is currently a protected site in Scotland.

ah-ha!

Thanks for that. I've been to New Lanark a few times, never knew that though.

Although i will say, one example of socialism failing is not outright proof that it will always do so.

But EVERY example of socialism failing is pretty convincing...

I just can't resist.

I havta send this back to the first page of Politics for people to see the first page of this thread...

At 9/24/06 05:50 AM, sp23hagbard5 wrote:
america is the freest nation in the world? really? Huh, nice joke

even austria(yes, the country where hitler is born) gives the people more rights than america
we can go where ever we want without getting problems, yes, even to north korea

Our civil liberties are pretty good when it comes to this nation.

Is it the freest nation in the world? I dunno, but comparing our nations when there is a good chance I know more about my own nation than you know about tens to, oh I dunno, tip the scales.

What I do know is that Austria has a Democratic Republic and came up with a Federal Constitution which is basically what America did as well. The only difference is that you have districs and not states and a Democratic Socialist economy which, by the by, has some plot holes of it own.

If you are going to be anit-American, btw, KNOW YOUR FACTS!

America should do alo of things, but it won't, its too hung up on itself and how great it is to do anything about anything unless they have a clear enemy to attack.

At 10/2/06 06:39 PM, Glendale wrote: I havta send this back to the first page of Politics for people to see the first page of this thread...

Everyone loves debates about communism.

No thanks, I actually enjoy individual freedom :)

*Public Service Announcement*
Remember kids, if someone offers you communism on the street, you:
1. say no
2. walk away
3. tell an adult

so be smart, be safe, and stay away from communism as well as other illegal substances.
*end Public Service Announcement*

America would totally redefine Communism if it ever got its hands on it.

Redefine, refine, purify, bottle, package, and sell in multipacks.

At 10/3/06 01:27 PM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote: Redefine, refine, purify, bottle, package, and sell in multipacks.

If only political ideaologies were like tasty beverages...

UNFORTUNATELY, no tasty beverage has killed millions of people (Im begging somebody to disprove this).

America doesnt need communism, America should just get off its Liberal craze.

The way i see it the best thing for america would be a powerfull Social Democratic party treating everyone equal and provideing for the people instead of those who support the most during election times.

At 9/18/06 05:52 PM, dukemaster4 wrote:

At 9/18/06 05:50 PM, Dizzy-D wrote:

Also considering capitalism outlasted communism in the cold war, thats all the proof you need.

umm wtf, the soviets were the first to send a satilite into space, the first to travel completely around the earth, and the first to land on the moon. They had the economic means to do this because they were under a communist system. learn you history god your stupid

and look what happened dumbass they later fell to a failed economy despite all of those things leaving a rebuilding russia which i think will be a great nation with given time.

Well if you consider the USA's tactic of deliberately trying to out gun the CCCPwhere nuclear weapons are concerned, to bankrupt the CCCP it is no wonder their economy failed.

amerca has been a democracy since its creation after its independance from england. no real point on changing the government right now. it seems to be working fine right now. only probeblem currently is that the people in chage are being stupid.

communisim wont work here anyways because america way is about making more money and better jobs. communism is about having a shared amount of money.

could work in other countries, just not this one now.

At 10/4/06 12:46 PM, abluepillorafreemind wrote: Well if you consider the USA's tactic of deliberately trying to out gun the CCCPwhere nuclear weapons are concerned, to bankrupt the CCCP it is no wonder their economy failed.

No shit, are you saying it was wrong? The USSR had to be stopped. They were an evil that rivalled the wickedness of Apollyon. And you don't think your beloved CCCP didn't engage in the same strategy either, hell, they played even dirtier than the US on an international scale?

Let's considering land size, the USSR occupied nearly an entire continent, while the US had a land mass smaller than China, and yet we still kept them on their toes and eventually defeated the bolsheviks.

The USA's way of coercing a nation: "If you don't help us we'll no longer give you economical or military aide."

The USSR's way of coercing a nation: "Either help us or we'll kill you all and go Mao on your asses."

At 9/18/06 05:50 PM, Dizzy-D wrote:

Also considering capitalism outlasted communism in the cold war, thats all the proof you need.

umm wtf, the soviets were the first to send a satilite into space, the first to travel completely around the earth, and the first to land on the moon. They had the economic means to do this because they were under a communist system. learn you history god your stupid

Um, actually, the economies of the Soviets and the U.S. were, at the time, about equal. Besides, money didn't send the Soviets into space. Science did that.

At 9/19/06 03:51 AM, Bovineoverlord wrote: Communism sucks. Capitalism is the only way. Notice this, COMRADE: Russian Commie f*ckers: poor as dirt and can't get rich because of a communist system: Liberty Loving Americans and Canadians: rolling in wealth and luxury because of a Capitalist system, and still getting richer. Statistics, baby. Look at the statistics.

Oh my god. You are the reason people hate America. Please at least listen to someone else's point af view before spouting off your Republican coloquialisms.

At 9/18/06 05:50 PM, Dizzy-D wrote:

Also considering capitalism outlasted communism in the cold war, thats all the proof you need.

umm wtf, the soviets were the first to send a satilite into space, the first to travel completely around the earth, and the first to land on the moon. They had the economic means to do this because they were under a communist system. learn you history god your stupid

That's because the government had huge stores of money (Since in communism, money goes in only one dirrection, up)

At 10/7/06 09:19 PM, Grotesk wrote:

At 9/19/06 03:51 AM, Bovineoverlord wrote: Communism sucks. Capitalism is the only way. Notice this, COMRADE: Russian Commie f*ckers: poor as dirt and can't get rich because of a communist system: Liberty Loving Americans and Canadians: rolling in wealth and luxury because of a Capitalist system, and still getting richer. Statistics, baby. Look at the statistics.

Oh my god. You are the reason people hate America. Please at least listen to someone else's point af view before spouting off your Republican coloquialisms.

..... roflmaoomgwtfdairyqueenbbq

So yeah, lets look at the median incomes for Russians vs. Americans...

$41,800 Per Person in America

$11,100 Per Person in Russia

Source- https://www.cia.gov/../factbook/index.html

And thats what we in our little stupid fantasy World Of Warcraft call a "pwnt".

Fuck the Lada. In all honesty, Russia kicks ass and all but they failed as a country

At 9/18/06 06:05 PM, texicomexico wrote:

umm wtf, the soviets were the first to send a satilite into space, the first to travel completely around the earth, and the first to land on the moon. They had the economic means to do this because they were under a communist system. learn you history god your stupid

This is what happens when someone drinks and types.The only country that is fully communist is china and the poverty level there is severe. Checks your facts,n00b.

When I drink and type I never make spelling mistakes. Thats really wierd becuase you'd think i'd be the other way around

At 8/9/07 02:46 PM, kahncccp wrote: Communism is the greatest type of government ever invented( besides zapatismo).

like I said. One Communism thread is good enough you fucking commie spammer.