We we've been missing a topic on this for quite some time. Anyhow, a set of questions that should spark debate (their intention is the polarize views.)
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
3. How old is Israel?
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
At 3/14/03 11:53 AM, Slizor wrote:
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
Both
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
No, rather an expression of discontent from idiots
3. How old is Israel?
Not gonna go there
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
Both sides do.
Think along the lines of 'Do Americans have any greater right to the land they claim than Native Americans', only imagine european settlers were here 3-4000 years ago.
"A witty quote proves nothing."
~Voltaire
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?No, rather an expression of discontent from idiots
I doubt many people would die to express their discontent.
3. How old is Israel?Not gonna go there
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?Both sides do.
Think along the lines of 'Do Americans have any greater right to the land they claim than Native Americans', only imagine european settlers were here 3-4000 years ago.
Who are the natives and who are the settlers?
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
the Arabs
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
No
3. How old is Israel?
since the UN came together right after world war 2
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
no not now. 5 times they have been offered a deal but all thet want to do is and i quote "To push the Jewish meanace in the the ocean"
At 3/14/03 11:53 AM, Slizor wrote: We we've been missing a topic on this for quite some time. Anyhow, a set of questions that should spark debate (their intention is the polarize views.)
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
Both.
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
Yeah, I'd have to say so. The Palestinians have no other way of fighting the Israeli's. Americans are repulsed by the methods, but neither Israel nor the Palestinians are interested in the "rules of war" that the western world has layed down over time.
3. How old is Israel?
About 50 years. I don't relate ancient Israel to the new one because I believe in natural occurence... the Jews being kicked out of Old Israel was natural as opposed to the implementation of the New Israel which was unnatural. The consequence of the unnatural process is continuous violence and terrorism - on both the part of Palestine and Israel.
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
Oh certainly. Both sides have a claim but I would say the Palestinians have a stronger one. Something had to be done for the European Jews but supplanting the Palestinians wasn't fair. It would be like the UN giving the East Coast of the US to the Native Americans and sticking all the current inhabitants in a ghetto somewhere. Do the Native Americans have a claim? Yeah... but they had their land taken by an invading people, just like what has happened naturally all over the world for all of time.
If America and Europe were so concerned with the fate of the Jews, they should've set up a homeland in America or Europe. But I guess they saw their chance to retake the Holy Land almost a millenium after the failure of the Crusades.
At 3/14/03 11:53 AM, Slizor wrote: We we've been missing a topic on this for quite some time. Anyhow, a set of questions that should spark debate (their intention is the polarize views.)
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
NATO, and the US. They took the land from Palestine in the first place.
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
No, It is a desperate nation fighting for the very survival of their people in the only way they can.
3. How old is Israel?
Not as old as Palestine
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
Yes.
At 3/14/03 11:53 AM, Slizor wrote: We we've been missing a topic on this for quite some time. Anyhow, a set of questions that should spark debate (their intention is the polarize views.)
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
3. How old is Israel?
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
NO, NO, NO, NO!
This is not a response to the questions, this is my reaction to the reintroduction of this topic. I ain't gonna do this again!
Well....maybe I will.
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
Both, but the latest bout of violence and hatred boiled over when Ariel sharon had the nerve to show up at a holy site with military guards, this enraged the arab population, also, people are starving in the camps while the Israeli's are free to come and go as they wish. So I'd say the latest round is mostly Israeli Caused.
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
Yes, they pay the bomber's families exorbitant sums for a male in the family to blow himself up and hurt as many as he can. Would anyone who wasnt desperate blow themselves up? that question answers itsself.
3. How old is Israel?
Depends who you ask. If you were to ask anyone who has read a bible, they would say thousands of years. If you asked a geographer or mapmaker or peacekeeper, they'd tell you that Isreal was created in its present location just after world war 2 as a way to appologize to the jewish people for the holocaust, without thinking of those allready there. The U.S. did not have an enemy in the middle east until Israel became a country.
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
Yes, they had been living there for hundreds of years. Then the holocaust happened and we all felt so bad, we thought we'd give those harmed whatever they demanded. So these people got displaced and treated like vermin in their own homeland where they now live in a state of almost total poverty, and their only way to be heard it to blow themselves and several innocent people away in the name of the cause. This isnt a new concept, people have been dieing for nationalism and patriotism for thousands of years, even if the land they're patriotic to is no longer theirs.
3. How old is Israel?since the UN came together right after world war 2
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?no not now. 5 times they have been offered a deal but all thet want to do is and i quote "To push the Jewish meanace in the the ocean"
Have you seen the peace deals that have been "negotiated" (read offered.) http://www.fair.org/extra/0207/generous.html
http://www.al-bushra.org/israel/mariam.html
At 3/14/03 11:53 AM, Slizor wrote:
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
Originally the British, for moving all the jews there after the war. But today, the fault lies on both sides. The jews always retaliate against terrorist attacks, and the palestinians will always terrorise until they get their own state.
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
Possibly, but the bombings are not helping the peace process, and ultimately won't get the arabs their own state.
3. How old is Israel?
The modern country was established as a jewish state in 1948.
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
Just as much as the jews, as they are the native people. The jews claim it as theirs due to historical links. That is quite unclear though. Using Israeli logic, Britain could claim now to own parts of France as they did historically.
Just as much as the jews, as they are the native people. The jews claim it as theirs due to historical links. That is quite unclear though. Using Israeli logic, Britain could claim now to own parts of France as they did historically.
Speaking of this, although there are many complexities....
The Irish could claim the whole of Europe.
The Danish could then claim England.
So could the French and the Welsh.
The Welsh could also claim Ireland, and Ireland could claim Scotland.
The Germans could claim Italy and the Italians could claim Germany.
The Russians could claim pretty much anywhere around them.
Belgium and Holland could be claimed by pretty much everyone.
The Italians could claim Tunisia.
The Greeks could claim a hell of a lot, and the Italians.
The whole damn situation could have been avoided, had the UN thought of a very simple admonition.
Beggars can't be choosers.
They gave the Jews everything they wanted, the land, the location, and even the holy city, to all intents and purposes.
But the land and the location AND the holy city were not theirs to give. What they should have done is given the Jews a peace of land owned by one of the countries pushing to give them land.
The Jews were in no position to negotiate, and they would have to compromise for what land to get.
Can you give your son a piece of your neighbours land? Can the city give away your property?
Think of this on a much smaller scale:
The city of New York has long been troubled by a certain homeless man soliciting for change, with slogans such as "Can you give a poor brother a quarter?".
So after much debate, they evict a landowner and let this homeless man live on his land.
See any problems?
Israel was invaded thrice, and pushed back enemy armies each time. The Arab nations need to realize, when you lose a war, you lose influence. The Palestinians have no right to have a state, the state is Israel, and if they don't like it, they can suck 21" artillery shell.
At 3/15/03 12:52 PM, NEMESiSZ wrote: Israel was invaded thrice, and pushed back enemy armies each time. The Arab nations need to realize, when you lose a war, you lose influence. The Palestinians have no right to have a state, the state is Israel, and if they don't like it, they can suck 21" artillery shell.
You have to be the biggest idiot I have ever had the misfortune of insulting.
"OMG AMERICA IS SO UBER COOL! EVERYTHING THEY DO IS RIGHT! AMERICA CAN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING WRONG! EVERYONE AMERICA SUPPORTS MUST BE AWESOME BECAUSE AMERICA LIKES THEM! MY NAME IS NEMESISZ! I HAVE NO BRAIN! I SUPPORT EVERYTHING AMERICA DOES JUST BECAUSE AMERICA IS DOING IT! USA ALL THE WAY!"
At 3/14/03 11:53 AM, Slizor wrote: We we've been missing a topic on this for quite some time. Anyhow, a set of questions that should spark debate (their intention is the polarize views.)
1. Which side's fault is it for the lack of peace in the region?
2. Are suicide bombings an expression of hopelessness?
3. How old is Israel?
4. Do the Palestinians have any claim to the land?
1. It's the world's ignorance that leads it to believe that the lack of peace in the region and that there's someone at fault. The only way these boundaries exist is through war. Always has been and always will be. Tough luck doves.
2. Suicide bombings are two forms of expression. The first expression it resembles is the zeal of the Muslims that fervently believe they are going to the promised land after their acts. Maybe they're right, maybe their wrong, but that's religion. It's also an expression of hopelessness considering that Palestine rebels don't have the money for an army because the High Command of the PLO contains the 90% of the wealth in that region. Thus, the only battles they can fight are the ones prove that in this age one person can truly make a difference in the world.\
3. The current nation of Israel will be turning 55 in May. Since Israel was gobbled up by various groups in the past 3000 years, one cannot say it's existed in its own sovereignty for those 3000, yet all three(3) sides have reasonable claims.
4. As for the Palestinian cause, the wild part about this is that Palestine was an extension of Roman territory at one point and an extension of the Ottoman Empire until WWI. Palestine in its own sovereignty has NEVER existed by itself so that claim is false. The only claim it could have is if the entire Arab World demanded that the Brits and UN give back their territory. Unless Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon, and the rest of the small Arab Nations fuse back to a Neo-Ottoman Empire, the claim is lacking. However, since many of these nations have been fighting together against Israel, is it a coincidence?
At 3/15/03 02:30 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote:
Actually, Nemesisz manages to boil down the points into something idiots can understand. While some of it might be a bit wrong...the general point is there. When you lose a war, you don't get the right to say 'give me the land anyway'. That's the way it is, and Palestine is just being bitchy about it.
Yeah, but the Palestinians didn't lose to Israel. They lost to Israeli's who had been equipped to the point of invincibility by the US. In the Palestinians mind, the war is still going on - they can not fight militarily though, so they use terror attacks in an attempt to make the Israeli's bend.
The UN's descision wasnt to give land to the Jews, most of the land they gave them power to was already owned privately byt the Jews.
Israel got 57% of the land, 7% percent of the population were Jewish.
Israel was invaded thrice, and pushed back enemy armies each time.
Which three are we talking about?
The Arab nations need to realize, when you lose a war, you lose influence.
It was the Arab nations that lost the wars, yet it is the Palestinian people that suffer. It has long been established that taking territory by force and occupying it is wrong.
The Palestinians have no right to have a state, the state is Israel
Is it their state?
You're right. You buy so many goods from Isreal, that now that you've decided to boycott them, their economy is sure to go under and they will have no choice but to create a palestinian state because they have a weak economy.
Except for the fact that neither your belief, nor your brilliant idea to boycott Isreal is going to accomplish anything.
There's an old saying in the mideast:
It can't be that old.
"If Palestine puts down its weapon there will be no war, if Israel puts down its weapons there will be no Israel."
I've decided to ask another question instead of directly challenging this "saying".
Who has suffered more, the Palestinians, or the Israelis?
Israel got 57% of the land, 7% percent of the population were Jewish.Where did you hear this?
I didn't hear it, I read it. I can't find the original resource, but I did find this.
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm
While it doesn't agree with my statistic on the population (there's big disagreement over it actually) it does tell you how much land they owned, right at the bottom.
Actually I've just found this http://www.endtheoccupation.org/PDFs/fact_sheet_1.pdf
It says that Palestine in 1914 had 8% Jews, guess my original resource was wrong.
