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At 9/25/06 07:25 PM, TheMason wrote: Do I need to spell it out for you? If you firbomb a 400-600 year structure housing a bunch of nuns or monks you can easily kill more people than a suicide bomber on a bus. The point is my example can be directly correlated and compared to suicide bombing. Wait a second...didn't Eric Rudolf bomb abortion clinics in the name of God?
The problem with Christian terrorists and bombers is that they forget to include the "suicide" part and thus deepen the gene pool.

Way to use hypotheticals. However, in the US, abortion clinic bombings in our entire history don't even account for 10% of what Islamic savages did on 9/11 alone.
Christianity is not violent.
Islam is.
End of story.

You would be surprised, the number of true extremist believers are about the same. The thing is the extremists muslims have more resonance because there are more secular issues at play such as economics, real & perceived oppression and nationalist struggles. Some sick bastards are also drawn to terrorism as a means to express their sociopathic need for violence and mayhem without really caring about the ideology they are expressing.

Yawn. The extremist christian numbers don't come close to the extremist muslim numbers. Show me the number of deaths in the past three years by Christian wackos all over the world, and I'll show you the number in response (so far) to the pope's speech. Islam loses again.
And btw, Christian fanatics like Robertson and Phelps and Falwell only piss of, annoy and hurt people's feelings.

Yeah, I do have something against Christianity overall. I have something against the way they are trying to mandate and legislate their belief structures. Abortion, drinking prohibitions, stem cell/cloning restrictions, creationism as science (as oppossed to teaching it as a philosophy or theology class), and support of a militaristic regime in the ME based on an imagined Judeo-Christian sameness.

If you wish to get into the debate of all those things, you will lose on every one of them. Abortion (on principal) cannot be a slight against the christians. It is simply a matter (on how both sides debate it) of life vs. convenience. Life wins every time. Christians aren't calling for drinking prohibitions, so you're done there (in fact catholics drink at mass). Stem cell issues are easily debated away on non-christian terms (such as me having to pay for it and it being completely non-workable). And anyone who's not a complete idiot looks at the ME and says "You know there's something wrong over there." We're done on this topic.

My point is there are too many voices out there painting Islam with a wide brush in the color of extremists. They lack knowledge about the nature of the threat (a threat that I do acknowledge) and continue to spread their ignorance as if it were fact. So while to a point I have something against Christianity, my main point is to play devil's advocate and paint Christianity with the same brush using christian extremism as my color of choice. Obviously I'm being successful because its touched a nerve with you. So, Timetrials, all I'm trying to do is hold a mirror up to people like you and see how you like have your beliefs misrepresented like you do others.

Which is why your argument is useless. Christianity and Islam do not pose the same threat. Much in the same way that PETA and Hitler aren't on the same level. They WERE both vegetarians....

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At 9/24/06 03:47 PM, seventy-one wrote:

Just before the end it says how a leading cleric 'sheik abubakar hassan malin' told the worshippers at his Mosque to -QUOTE- "hunt down & kill whoever offended the prophet Mohammad." -end quote-

That still doesn't prove that the killing was in direct response to the comments. There's so much shit going down there it could have been any number of issues.

This time you are wrong,my friend, I am coming to the conclusion that somehow, and I hope GOD WILL HELP , BUT THE Muslims FAITH NEEDS A REAL LEADER, because this is the reason innocent nuns were killed, And if you know anything about nuns, aside from some of them being strict, and getting way to happen with the ruler, and smacking your knuckles..., They would not kill anyone...They are the brides of Christ,They go to many lands, trying to help people both physically ,,and spiritually.. And what those Muslim's did in killing them, is an outrage, an atrocity, How on earth someone can say they are doing the will of god by killing Innocent people, is sicking. your religion needs strong leadership, Or it will destroy itself, There should be more Muslim's helping to get rid of terrousim,and speaking out against it, you are killing each other, Sunni, s'heite, need to realise they are children or the same GOD.
WE, CHRISTIAN'S, JEW'S, MUSLIMS, Are all the children of Abraham. GOD does not condone the killing of Innocent, And there is no such thing as being a mart-er in the eyes of God, by killing his people. People when they hear the word Muslim, think terrorist, And that is a very sad thing.
I have been reading the Q'uran, and it is a great book, But you need real teachers to lead people in the correct way. Because the cleric'Sheik Abubakar Hassan Malin' is just as guilty as the murders and should be punished as a murder.

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At 9/26/06 06:18 AM, WolvenBear wrote:

At 9/25/06 07:25 PM, TheMason wrote: Do I need to spell it out for you? If you firbomb a 400-600 year structure housing a bunch of nuns or monks you can easily kill more people than a suicide bomber on a bus. The point is my example can be directly correlated and compared to suicide bombing. Wait a second...didn't Eric Rudolf bomb abortion clinics in the name of God?
The problem with Christian terrorists and bombers is that they forget to include the "suicide" part and thus deepen the gene pool.

Way to use hypotheticals. However, in the US, abortion clinic bombings in our entire history don't even account for 10% of what Islamic savages did on 9/11 alone.
Christianity is not violent.

That is not a hypothetical. That is fact based on what evangelicals did in S. Korea in the 1990s. Way to show your ignorance and lack of reading.

Islam is.
End of story.

You would be surprised, the number of true extremist believers are about the same. The thing is the extremists muslims have more resonance because there are more secular issues at play such as economics, real & perceived oppression and nationalist struggles. Some sick bastards are also drawn to terrorism as a means to express their sociopathic need for violence and mayhem without really caring about the ideology they are expressing.

Yawn. The extremist christian numbers don't come close to the extremist muslim numbers. Show me the number of deaths in the past three years by Christian wackos all over the world, and I'll show you the number in response (so far) to the pope's speech. Islam loses again.
And btw, Christian fanatics like Robertson and Phelps and Falwell only piss of, annoy and hurt people's feelings.

This also depends on who you count as Muslim extremists. People in the PLO wouldn't count since their actions are political and secular in nature. Saddam Hussein was also a secular dictator. The difference between Christian and Muslim nations is that for the moment our governments are more stable while the Muslim world is in political and economic crisis. This helps the spread of radical religion: just look at the history of Europe.

Yeah, I do have something against Christianity overall. I have something against the way they are trying to mandate and legislate their belief structures. Abortion, drinking prohibitions, stem cell/cloning restrictions, creationism as science (as oppossed to teaching it as a philosophy or theology class), and support of a militaristic regime in the ME based on an imagined Judeo-Christian sameness.

If you wish to get into the debate of all those things, you will lose on every one of them. Abortion (on principal) cannot be a slight against the christians. It is simply a matter (on how both sides debate it) of life vs. convenience. Life wins every time.

It does bring up a point on whether legislators should write laws based strictly on their personal religious beliefs versus the will of the people. Now I'm not saying I do or do not believe in abortion, nor am I saying what the will of the people is. In fact while I lean pro-life it is not an issue I care about. However, it does bring up a valid ethical question (note ethics and morals are not necessarialy synonomous).

::Christians aren't calling for drinking prohibitions, so you're done there (in fact catholics drink at mass).

Not really, I'm a Catholic so I know all about communal wine. But many counties that are predominately protestant that still have prohibition. Did you know the people who distill Jack Daniels live in a county where they can't buy it? In many states there are prohibitions on buying liquor on Sunday. So obviously you are right and I am wrong that Christians are uniformily NOT calling for drinking prohibitions.

::Stem cell issues are easily debated away on non-christian terms (such as me having to pay for it and it being completely non-workable).

Funny people told the Wright brothers that they could never fly. And what happened to the American "can-do" attitude that gives us the the stick-with-it-ness that we can make the implausable possible.

::And anyone who's not a complete idiot looks at the ME and says "You know there's something wrong over there." We're done on this topic.

Never once have I said that. However, what is wrong over there is not an apocalyptic/end of the world scenario that involves a clash of religions.

My point is there are too many voices out there painting Islam with a wide brush in the color of extremists. They lack knowledge about the nature of the threat (a threat that I do acknowledge) and continue to spread their ignorance as if it were fact. So while to a point I have something against Christianity, my main point is to play devil's advocate and paint Christianity with the same brush using christian extremism as my color of choice. Obviously I'm being successful because its touched a nerve with you. So, Timetrials, all I'm trying to do is hold a mirror up to people like you and see how you like have your beliefs misrepresented like you do others.

Which is why your argument is useless. Christianity and Islam do not pose the same threat. Much in the same way that PETA and Hitler aren't on the same level. They WERE both vegetarians....

Unfortunately, I do not have the time or the space to more fully respond to your post. However, you write from an emotional standpoint that does not allow you to have a wide enough vision to look at the core of the question or outside of your own comfortable, narrowly defined box.

AAK