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Are you going to stay married? live as a married couple? Can Mal be a bridesmaid?

At 6/3/08 11:43 PM, fli wrote: Leo and I are getting married, not because of love--

I am having a hard time understanding your reasoning, fli...

you say that Marriage is a very important sacrament to you...that it will bring you closer to god.

So how do you figure that by getting married simply to have a California Marriage License to a man you don't love, and freely express this, who you may at one point divorce because of this rash action, that it is a spiritual endeavor?

Forgive me for this, please, for you are a good person and I like you very much...But your reasoning completely nullifies itself. To feel marriage as an important spiritual moment, where you are joined to the one you love for the rest of your life in the eyes of god...how can you possibly jump to be married to someone in this fashion? It goes against the whole idea of a spiritual marriage.

I'm sorry fli...but you can't have both here. Either you get married because it's the thing to do at the moment, or you wait until you are truly in love and "marry" in the eyes of god.

I see this ending poorly for you. There is so much paperwork and stress and stupidness that happens when you divorce.

HALF OF EVERYTHING YOU OWN RIGHT NOW, WHETHER LEO PAID FOR IT OR NOT IS GOING TO BE HIS!

Get some sense, man. Marriage isn't something you buy because it's in season, it's FOREVER. and by getting married, in this specific interest, you are only helping the case for the right-wing wing nuts who want gay marriage banned.

Bad choice. Bad Idea. Please reconsider, because you are setting yourself for a world of heartbreak. You can go to Canada, you can go to Mass., you can go to Vermont or Europe when you finally find your love and you can have the spiritual fullness's that you crave!!! NY is going to accept marriage licenses from other states and countries for gay couples, plenty of other states are probably going to follow suit.

The timing is not right, Fli.

/rant

Allow me to say this: You are an amazing person and I feel you mean well. I don't want you to feel insulted or belittled by this in any way. I like you. I still like you. I will like you if you don't listen to what I say. I will like you if you fill out the rest of your life with Leo and are happy. I will like you if it all falls apart. But this is my opinion, and I don't think I gave my two cents.

I would also like to point out that for the past 2 years i have been planning and getting ready for my own marriage. My fiancee and I are getting married in the Catholic Church. Although we're young, we fully accept the idea that we will have no turning back. We have had long discussions with our priest, our family and our friends. We fully understand everything that is going to happen if it works out and if it doesnt. But it took us MONTHS before finally deciding. And when our date was set for last summer we still waited for another year for good measure. We set all of our appointments back more than a year. We fully accept that our marriage will never be dissolved in the eyes of the church, and that if we do divorce legally, we wont be able to marry in our religion again. So I hope you take my advice not as some younger ass who doesn't understand but from somebody who has had the concept of marriage and the process of it swimming through his head for the better part of 2 full years.

At 6/3/08 11:43 PM, fli wrote: Leo and I are getting married, not because of love--

Is one of you pregnant?

Totally worth double posting

At 6/4/08 12:02 AM, stafffighter wrote:

At 6/3/08 11:43 PM, fli wrote: Leo and I are getting married, not because of love--

Is one of you pregnant?

Totally worth double posting

that's ok, I broke your double post

At 6/4/08 12:06 AM, Malachy wrote:

At 6/4/08 12:02 AM, stafffighter wrote:

At 6/3/08 11:43 PM, fli wrote: Leo and I are getting married, not because of love--

Is one of you pregnant?

Totally worth double posting

that's ok, I broke your double post

Just like you broke my heart...

Well, it's that one experience I do want to have, and the way I see it... if I can't have the full experience, than at least I should get the partial one and be content enough. I know this doesn't bode well with me and truly-- I know it doesn't reflect well on me either. But, right now... I'm feeling desperate and running out of time.

Malarchy, it's much easier in regards of marriage because you got time. You got the legal resources and stuff like that. But as for me... it's not the same. Marriages are starting in June and perhaps by November they will be annulled.

And although I haven't expressed this, I do regret not marrying the first chance I had when I was in love and had experienced years of, what essentially was, matrimony.

Call me pessimistic, but I'm very sure that this is my VERY LAST opportunity to experience something remotely close to marriage, and the last thing I need to do is be a run away bride when, as the cliche saying goes, the time is nigh.

From June till November, or Feburary at most, I can experience a legal marriage. No doubt that eventually I will find someone who I can love again and that we will marry (in our hearts and in a church)-- but it won't be the same for me.

*bla*

But, anyways... here's a pic from my attempt in pinhole photography with a homemade camera made from a match box. It's a school bus... This was the only good picture of the lot...

At 6/4/08 12:53 AM, fli wrote: From June till November, or Feburary at most, I can experience a legal marriage. No doubt that eventually I will find someone who I can love again and that we will marry (in our hearts and in a church)-- but it won't be the same for me.

well, I was also trying to say that you aren't being cornered against the wall here. You can go to plenty of places and gay marriage is probably going to continue to increase, or at the very least acceptance of an outside license by your home state.

On a church note: At least for us the priest had to ask us some questions and we were expected to answer truthfully (although, how can you lie to a priest?)

some of them were:

Have you ever been in a legal, common law, spiritual marriage with another person?

Have you ever lived with another person whom you did not plan on marrying?

I don't know if those are make-or-break questions with the church, as we answered correctly or whatnot...but these are the types of things that may be asked when you get to the alter one day.

But, anyways... here's a pic from my attempt in pinhole photography with a homemade camera made from a match box. It's a school bus... This was the only good picture of the lot...

You know, despite it being a pinhole camera, that's not a half bad picture. It has that security camera feel to it.

I've been experimenting in "crap" photography as an art form... I bought an 1970s 35 mm japanese cam from a thrift store and I want to see how pics will look with high quality film.

Here's a cell phone pic on the day when gay marriage was announced as legal...

Here's one picture I've developed.
The camera: a beer can, and a lot of masking tape.

This is the only pic I could actually salvage with some photoshopping...
Still-- it's cool that I used a beer can to make a picture.

Makes me feel like MacGyver...
youtube reference...

ooops...
forgot pic

At 6/4/08 12:53 AM, fli wrote: Well, it's that one experience I do want to have, and the way I see it... if I can't have the full experience, than at least I should get the partial one and be content enough. I know this doesn't bode well with me and

;;
When one has nothing nice to say...one should often times say nothing.
THIS IS DEFINATELY ONE OF THOSE TIMES ! ! ! !

At 6/4/08 03:14 AM, fli wrote: Here's one picture I've developed.
The camera: a beer can, and a lot of masking tape.

Ahh, the pin-hole camera. That takes me back to my GCSE photography classes involving a biscuit tin and going apeshit when some twat walked through my shot despite the fact I told him three fucking times to go around because I was photographing that spot...

At 6/4/08 12:53 AM, fli wrote: Malarchy, it's much easier in regards of marriage because you got time. You got the legal resources and stuff like that. But as for me... it's not the same. Marriages are starting in June and perhaps by November they will be annulled.

You're only 26. You can move/elope to a place that allows actual gay marriages if you want.

Green walls? I got those.

you need yourself a filter for your flourescent lights.

yay photo and film classes!

As a guy who's opposed to straight marriage, I can't really condone gay marriage.

Fli, marriage is ALWAYS a bad idea. Always. It's an imaginary dream cooked up by artists to make money. Nothing more. Even the old classical archaic romances were written not because they were true, but because they sold well to the aristocracy.

The romance image of marriage in the modern area came about after ww2, when the government needed more soldiers.

There is no more subversive lie than the lie of "forever". People die, inside and outside. There is no forever, and to lie to yourself about it is the ultimate self-betrayal.

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Also, new chapter of the book up.

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I know that previous post sounded really down, but I'm actually really happy. I just don't like seeing people set themselves up for pain just because they were lied to by society.

-----------------------------

I met this girl and she's the most tender, soft, vulnerable person I've ever met. She likes me anyway. We've known each other for months, then started seeing each other socially just a few weeks ago.

We're currently in the "wanting to talk to each other all the time" stage, which I hope never ends. I really like this girl as a friend, and it's really important to me to be friends first and foremost, because sex without friendship is just masturbation.

What makes me so into this chick is because she's honest with me. She doesn't want some sort of bullshit all-for-show relationship. We both know that what we have we make together, and that it'll only hold up as long as we still think the other is worth the time.

You can't force happiness, not with marriage, not with bullshit status based relationships. Some people make you happy; some people don't. If someone just doesn't click with you, being with them is just a lie. Just because one person makes you happy doesn't mean someone else won't make you happier. There's no reason to be exclusive, or to lie to the person you like about other people you like. Honesty is the first step, and a relationship built on lies will fall apart like a house of cards.

I'd rather honestly be fuck-buddies than lie to someone to be their boyfriend anyday. Jealousy isn't a pretty emotion, and frankly, I'm glad I don't feel emotions. I have Holly do that for me, and in return, I'm her hard-edged logical side.

I have no idea how I'm going to convince this girl to burn me with cigarrettes, but I will damnit.

I WILL.

Where was I?

Oh, yeah. At the worst, I just hope she picks up my self-confidence and sense of self worth before she's gone, because she deserves to be happy with herself no matter how other people treat her.

Maybe that's what she likes about me? That I'm so... scary.. and yet her softness protects her and nullifies my agression. It's like she's so cute my visceralness shuts completely off.

I wonder which one of us is really stronger? Her strengths are in a completely different place than mine, and I really like that balance.

Comments?

Funk, I'm with you in a large way. I don't believe in the romantic image of marriage. Anyone in love could shack up and have children, that I know. That's what I've seen in my parents.

I have friends who have married in churches... you know that I once refered my old ex as my "husband."
But, it's not enough for me.

I'm not doing it because of the romantic notions, but the principals of it.
I want to have the choice. I want to have the decision of my own life, and not a bunch of pussies who don't know me, care for me, pay my bills, pay my taxes, or do anything constructive in my life.

But I know I will regret this in a huge way if I don't make this. It's a mistake, but it's a mistake that I need to experience myself.

Because in a few weeks, all gay marriage will be nullified. It's not an "if" but a "when."

I don't feel that I can really communicate with you on how important it is for me to experience this because you just don't really see the importance of marriage, but look it like this: how would you like it if people deny the most human part of you? What if they said you can't play drums, or whatever that makes you feel alive or human, or whatever.

My fight right now is about principality. I shouldn't be forced to live elsewhere when this is my home.
I'm human and I have my rights. I will live, and I will let you live. But if you don't like me--
fuck off. If you want a say about my life... then you pay my bills and taxes. Don't like any more?
Then fuck off and live me alone.

*sigh*
Whatever...

At 6/4/08 02:54 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: I have no idea how I'm going to convince this girl to burn me with cigarrettes, but I will damnit.

Is it wrong that I started laughing hysterically when I got to this part?

At 6/4/08 03:58 PM, fli wrote: Whatever...

Now as a casual observer, I have to say this.

It seems you're doing all this based on "principals," when your motives sound more like "because I can." You don't really seem to care the fact that you will be entering into a legally binding contract with someone you don't love, you just want to enter into it so that on paper your relationship is legitimate simply for tax reasons and you can say you've done it.

Your last relationship was, by all accounts, a marriage regardless of whether or not your home state viewed it as such. And your about to run into what is a Vegas Wedding with someone you don't even love because you may never have the chance to do so again... but what legitimacy does a piece of paper lend to the institution of marriage?

At 6/4/08 03:58 PM, fli wrote:

I don't feel that I can really communicate with you on how important it is for me to experience this because you just don't really see the importance of marriage, but look it like this: how would you like it if people deny the most human part of you? What if they said you can't play drums, or whatever that makes you feel alive or human, or whatever.

People do that to me all the time. Finding a place to play drums is very, VERY hard, because of how many people are offended by fast, grinding music. The musical style of my family is bluegrass, a style in which the drums are not at all accepted.

So in a very real way, I know what it's like to have family not consider me "one of them" because of my preferences. And don't think I don't understand what it's like to try and be something you're not just to get acceptance; I've learned both mandolin and upright bass to play with family, and they still don't respect me as a musician.

I used to be a church musician, until I joined a new church that didn't allow drums at all. So I even know how it feels to have organized religion look down on my preferences, on my choice of who I am and what I do with myself.

That's about as close as I can understand what you're going through without actually being gay in california. It would be like me rushing to join a christian metal band just because for a brief moment my church condoned it, even though the other members didn't have enough talent to be my equals.

But again, we fundamentally disagree on the validity of the institution of marriage. I don't want my straight friends to get married, let alone my gay ones. However, if you go through with this, do know that I still want you to be happy with the entire experience, and not just the pomp and circumstance of the wedding.

I think marriage is directly opposed to happiness. I want you to be happy, because you're my friend. However, you know yourself better than I do, and if you think you'll be happy forever with this man, then my opinion means nothing.

no politics in the lounge.

...erm... oops?

I could not be more opposed to you guys here. If you don't beleive in marriage as a representation of love then have you been fighting all this time aspiring to an empty gesture? Congradulations.

Shit's getting way too real here. Batman Dinosaurs!

At 6/4/08 05:30 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: ... if you think you'll be happy forever with this man, then my opinion means nothing.

Forever?
I'm pretty sure Californians will vote a ban on it, so essentially the only window of opportunity will be mid June till, at most, February.

But, I really got to really point this out.
This isn't done for some political stunt.

It's just something I've always want to do, and I feel I will regret it.
Under other circumstances, things would be different... but...

Never mind.
I think I got to talk this with other guys like me and see what they're doing and how they're feeling.

Two exams down, three to go.

Fucking simple as hell.

;

At 6/4/08 06:00 PM, stafffighter wrote: Shit's getting way too real here. Batman Dinosaurs!

<3 Qwantz

I should be studying for exams, or more realistically, just my finance exam, but I can't bring myself to do it, which sucks. Thank god for a long weekend cram session.

LETS GO RED WINGS!!!!!

Penis?

Penis.

penis

penii!

GOAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great no call by ref.

FREEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOM!

Had my alst exam of the year yesterday and it went surprisingly well, even though I did get few of the low mark trvia questions wrong.

I ende dup spending the entire afternoon drinking with my seminar tutor for International Relations as well. Getting drinks out of your tutors is a wonderful experience I highly recomend it.

Now I jsut have to figure out what the hell I'm gonna do for the 5 months 'til I'm back at university....

At 6/5/08 06:00 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Now I jsut have to figure out what the hell I'm gonna do for the 5 months 'til I'm back at university....

me does not understand your lazy system.