Filibuster by the Democrats.

[Mos]

The Democrats are trying to delay/ruin the Tax Cut. The cut STILL hasn't been passed, because a grand total of 46 (maybe 47) admendments have been proposed and declined.

Again, and again, and again, they keep proposing more and more admendments, each one going down in flames. This is extremely frustrating. I am sure they have hired many people to sit there and propose amendments.

[TFX]

At 5/22/01 11:23 PM, Mos wrote: The Democrats are trying to delay/ruin the Tax Cut. The cut STILL hasn't been passed, because a grand total of 46 (maybe 47) admendments have been proposed and declined.

Again, and again, and again, they keep proposing more and more admendments, each one going down in flames. This is extremely frustrating. I am sure they have hired many people to sit there and propose amendments.

That's because congressional democrats *cough*Clinton!*cough* don't want to give money back to their rightful owners. They would rather spend it on socialist programs that help those who don't want to work, or to pay for injuries that were self-inflicted 'I.e., starting to smoke in the modern day when we know that smoking is bad for your health'.

It's sad, really . . . Oh, please, government, I don't need to save money to pay for college, please, take it, I seriously don't want it . . .

[Slizor]

It's sad, really . . . Oh, please, government, I don't need to save money to pay for college, please, take it, I seriously don't want it . . .

You know that if you alctually elected a socialist he would make colleges free?

[Raptorman]

You know that if you alctually elected a socialist he would make colleges free?

Free? It don't exist. "Free" schools ect. are paid for by tax money and administraited by government officials. Since the government is a notoriously poor administrator, most of us are cautious about letting the government control anything. Hence the failure of health care reform. Futhermore, by nationalizing collages and universities, the US would lose one of it's biggest advantages, the ability to pay top dollar to talented professors from other countries to teach in the US.

[Slizor]

Free? It don't exist. "Free" schools ect. are paid for by tax money and administraited by government officials.

It would in effect be free, he won't directly have to pay for it.

Since the government is a notoriously poor administrator, most of us are cautious about letting the government control anything. Hence the failure of health care reform.

If you don't try, how are you gonna know?

Futhermore, by nationalizing collages and universities, the US would lose one of it's biggest advantages, the ability to pay top dollar to talented professors from other countries to teach in the US.

Do I look like I care about the USA?

[TFX]

It would in effect be free, he won't directly have to pay for it.

Yes, but people in countries like that usually have 50% income tax, so for every dollar they bring in, 50 cents goes to the government and comes back to you in the form of low-quality perscription drugs, free schools, and ultimately, something to complain about. Big Governments Suck.

If you don't try, how are you gonna know?

Because it has been a trend in history.

Do I look like I care about the USA?

Then why do you keep arguing on this board? Why do you keep arguing in posts related to US policy if you don't care?

[Slizor]

Yes, but people in countries like that usually have 50% income tax, so for every dollar they bring in, 50 cents goes to the government and comes back to you in the form of low-quality perscription drugs, free schools, and ultimately, something to complain about. Big Governments Suck.

As I said in my other post you really need to back up your arguements, especially if you want to be a politican. Lets have a little look at England. The income tax rates are progressive so the more you earn the more you pay. And the people at the top go private anyway. Saying that you don't actually get poor quality drugs and free school are good.

Because it has been a trend in history.

Like?

Then why do you keep arguing on this board? Why do you keep arguing in posts related to US policy if you don't care?

I didn't say I didn't like to critise the USA and its policies, that is different to caring.

I think you have been swallowing a little to much of that america bollocks.

[shorbe]

Mos: Of course, if the situation were reversed, the Republicans would never pull a stunt like that against the Democrats...

Slizor: Government administration of anything is inefficient and ineffective. Furthermore, making tertiary education free is problematic in a number of ways. Firstly, it makes people who don't use it still pay for it. Secondly, it devalues it, since everyone has a degree, meaning they need ever increasing amounts of education to stand out from the crowd. Related to this is the decline in standards. If anyone and everyone can go to university, then the par must be lowered. Thirdly, it ultimately serves no purpose and sets up false expectations. The majority of jobs out there, even in the US where a lot of people go to university, do not require an education. The upshot of that is that you have a whole lot of people who are over-qualified and dissatisfied with menial jobs.

Let's face it, free, mass tertiary education serves two purposes for politicians- it helps to attract the middle class vote because then everyone thinks they are equal, and even more importantly, it cuts unemployment.

Those are all problems faced here in Australia. In addition, there are two other problems. Firstly, you have perpetual students and academics who never want to get back into the workforce, or take six years to finish a three year degree, all at tax payer expense. Secondly, there is the big problem of brain-drain.

Raptor is correct in saying that the US gets the best professors. They can afford to. This is part of a wider symptom in society though. All of our elite head overseas (usually the US) because they will be paid what they're worth by non-socialist governments.

When I finish this year, I don't think I'll be back in Australia any time in the near future. This country is fucked, to put it nicely. I don't want any part of this welfare state mentality.

What will be left when there's no one of substance left? Then will people see the errors of their ways?

It will probably be too late. Of course, by then, Australia won't be able to support its extravagent socialist policies anyway...

Also, I noticed you mentioned the UK. I wouldn't exactly hold them up as a bastion of socialism, since they're not. They're very sharply divided along class lines. Besides which, do you think the rich in England are stupid enough to have their money invested there when they're paying 99% tax on it? Not likely.

shorbe

[Slizor]

Secondly, it devalues it, since everyone has a degree, meaning they need ever increasing amounts of education to stand out from the crowd. Related to this is the decline in standards. If anyone and everyone can go to university, then the par must be lowered.

I haven't said that everyone could goto university, I said that it would be free, the universities could still pick and choose who they wanted.

Thirdly, it ultimately serves no purpose and sets up false expectations. The majority of jobs out there, even in the US where a lot of people go to university, do not require an education. The upshot of that is that you have a whole lot of people who are over-qualified and dissatisfied with menial jobs.

So wouldn't they leave and go somewhere else?

it cuts unemployment.

Thats a bad thing?

Those are all problems faced here in Australia. In addition, there are two other problems. Firstly, you have perpetual students and academics who never want to get back into the workforce, or take six years to finish a three year degree, all at tax payer expense.

Then make a law against it.
:Secondly, there is the big problem of brain-drain.

Terminology is foreign, does not compute, please re-phrase and ask again.

Also, I noticed you mentioned the UK. I wouldn't exactly hold them up as a bastion of socialism, since they're not. They're very sharply divided along class lines. Besides which, do you think the rich in England are stupid enough to have their money invested there when they're paying 99% tax on it? Not likely.

Shorbe have you ever been to england?
And the rich are actually investing money in the UK, unemployment is the lowest ever. And its 40% tax anyway

[shorbe]

Slizor: That's why the American universities have scholarships and everyone else pays.

They can't leave an go somewhere else because they need a Masters degree just to get a decent job. The point I was making was that if everyone has a Bachelor degree, then having the degree is meaningless and a waste of time, as well as setting up a lot of false expectations.

It doesn't really lower unemployment. It gives a false perception of lowered unemployment. There's a difference between taking people out of the work pool and reducing unemployment. Another clever trick is where government increases a lot more part-time work. If you have two people doing the job of one person, then theoretically, there are fewer unemployed. Realistically though, more jobs have not been created. Education and part-time work are both clever scams to make a government look good.

Making laws isn't the answer. Making people responsible is the solution.

Brain drain is exactly as it sounds. All of your intelligent, qualified people leave and go elsewhere. In other words, they get poached by other companies or countries offering better incentives and what professionals deserve, unlike this economic backwater and socialistic mess.

Funny you should ask if I've ever been to England. I lived there for five years :P Besides which, someone doesn't have to go somewhere to comment on it.

There is a huge class divide in England. The Queen has most of her money invested outside of the UK, and people like the Rolling Stones have set their finances up elsewhere for tax purposes. As for unemployment, I'd like to know if the government pulled any of the afore-mentioned tricks.

shorbe

[Slizor]

They can't leave an go somewhere else because they need a Masters degree just to get a decent job. The point I was making was that if everyone has a Bachelor degree, then having the degree is meaningless and a waste of time, as well as setting up a lot of false expectations.

I understand your point, but EVeRYONE wouldn't get a bachelors degree.

Making laws isn't the answer. Making people responsible is the solution.

And we can do that how? Through education

There is a huge class divide in England. The Queen has most of her money invested outside of the UK, and people like the Rolling Stones have set their finances up elsewhere for tax purposes. As for unemployment, I'd like to know if the government pulled any of the afore-mentioned trick.

Really? where d'ya live?
Anyways There isn't a huge class divide, take for example my neighborhood,its a middle-class area, there are a load of private schools if you head north of my school, but if you go east you get to one of the poorest areas in leicester. Cutting it short, bye

[KaneOfNod]

At 5/22/01 11:23 PM, Mos wrote: The Democrats are trying to delay/ruin the Tax Cut. The cut STILL hasn't been passed, because a grand total of 46 (maybe 47) admendments have been proposed and declined.

Again, and again, and again, they keep proposing more and more admendments, each one going down in flames. This is extremely frustrating. I am sure they have hired many people to sit there and propose amendments.

The problem is the way Dems look at government programs.

If a program isn't working, it should be seriously reformed or stopped. The Dems waste more money on it!

[shorbe]

Slizor: Ack! The last thing you want is teachers dictating values. That's propoganda or thought control.

We lived in St Albans, Hertfordshire.

Kane: The Republicans do that too. They say they're for less government, but I don't see any of them giving up their jobs.

shorbe

[Slizor]

Slizor: Ack! The last thing you want is teachers dictating values. That's propoganda or thought control.

Indoctranation(sp) is used by all governments. It was used under Hitler and he bloody brainwashed everyone.

[KaneOfNod]

At 5/29/01 09:56 AM, shorbe wrote: Slizor: Ack! The last thing you want is teachers dictating values. That's propoganda or thought control.

We lived in St Albans, Hertfordshire.

Kane: The Republicans do that too. They say they're for less government, but I don't see any of them giving up their jobs.

shorbe

You don't see any of them giving up their jobs? What kind of bs is that?

Jobs=$$$. If less $ is being put into a program, either less people are being paid for it, or people are being paid less for it, or less is being wasted on the program itself.