precursor to global warfare

[mysecondstar]

we all know about the almost inevitable attack of iraq. we also know about the growing tension in Asia with north korea provoking the United States. and everywhere in between we may or may not have terrorists waiting for us to lower the nation terror alert level so that they may attack US soil once again. we have the makings of global war at our midst and not too many people seem to care.

i have many friends that have just been shipped off to the middle east in the past month. i also have family and friends in Seoul, the capital of South Korea which is 20 miles from the border with north korea (close enough for artillery fire), and i would much like it if we were to find a peaceful conclusion to all of this so i don't have to lose anyone else like i did in 9/11.

[SithLaird]

Sorry to hear you've lost someone.

I guess I must be part of the problem; I'm a Marine. Sure, I've noticed what is going to happen: GW will rattle his sabre till the hordes of the Apocalypse come riding down on ALL of humanity... at least that's what the old blind man told me...

Anyway, I apologize for the half-hearted humor; I'm gone in a month or so in any case, so you won't have to put up with me. Much.

What do you think of CNN's propaganda-like coverage of the upcoming conflicts?

[mysecondstar]

personally, it bugs me the way CNN and just about all the news networks are covering these stories. sure it is great to have a common cause and to have a sense of national unity, but why beat the war drums?

i grew up learning that people learn from the mistakes of the past. if we have learned anything from war, it's that it causes hatred and ressentment. the japanese are still not over the fact that the US nuked two of their cities and that is close to 60 years ago. hardly anyone from the world war two era is still alive and wel still have the next generation carrying the torch.

or maybe that's just the problem. world war two was a complete victory. the US has yet to have one of those since then. aside from missions into Latin America, the Korean War was a stalemate, Vietnam was a almost an embarassment for the US military, and Somalia fell by the wayside. now we have iraq. if anything, complete victory, like in world war two, is hard to attain. and it comes at a cost. perhaps we will pick up on an old American tradition of rounding up an entire group of people and detain them in the desest. if it happened to the Japanese-Americans, why not the Arabic-Americans. or for that matter everyone that practices Islam. it's sick. absolutely sick.

and there's no need to be sorry. the faster you get over these things, the faster you can get on with your life and make something of it. that what they would have wanted anyway.

[JMHX]

It also upsets me how the media is reporting everything about the war. Telling information that would have been illegal to reveal back in World War II. Giving dates of invasions and positions of troops. That's just insane. I'm all for freedom of the press, but not when it endangers and jeapordizes our plans. Since we're going to war, I'd like to see it go well and end quick, but I don't think that's the way it's going to be. That's too simple.

[Grinwald]

Not quite... we have Iraq and North Korea. Who supports Iraq? Just a bunch of student protestors. Who supports Kim Jong-il? Well, let's just say he's pretty light on friends. For a world war, there needs to be an enemy that can't be easily removed. Like, say, World War II, where Japan, Germany, Italy, and Spain (all major world powers at the time) allied against everyone else. I think that the US alone could handle North Korea and Iraq, so it should be even easier with all the UN support we have (and yes, we do have lots of UN support, just not necessarily in the security council)

[thenark]

North Korea Is Communist, Can You Tell Me What Other asian country is communist?

You guesed it, the peoples republic of china, and whether they like N, Korea or not, they would still wade into the frey if america attacked N. Korea, and China has the largest army in the world. And if world war two taught us anything, its that you cant kill a communist,look at stalingrad, a handful of poorly trained half starved soldiers held their city until the nazi's were forced to retreat. His Russian canpaign is quite possibly the reason that the Nazi's lost the war. And the N. Koreans and Chinese would be fighting on their own soil, for their own familys and their very lives, all the invaders would be fighting for would be because their leader said jump and their asking how high? Also, N. Korea has no oil, so Bush has no reason to bother them

[InSaNeFooL]

You guesed it, the peoples republic of china, and whether they like N, Korea or not, they would still wade into the frey if america attacked N. Korea, and China has the largest army in the world.

Simply because two countries are communist doesn't mean they're going to back each other up. It's a strong possibilty, but I've heard nothing of the sort.

And if world war two taught us anything, its that you cant kill a communist,look at stalingrad, a handful of poorly trained half starved soldiers held their city until the nazi's were forced to retreat.

The nazi's failed in Russia for many reasons:
- the freezing winter weather that they had not prepared for
- the fact that hitler was crazy and had his troops far too spread out on too many fronts

Plus most if not all soldiers are poorly trained and half starved during war time.

His Russian canpaign is quite possibly the reason that the Nazi's lost the war.

That and hitler was essentially a crazy fuck.

BTW, that was the easiest-to-read message I've read by you nark. Messages are difficult to read when every word is cap., but you knew that already ;)

[thenark]

Yes, but think, history is written by the victors, Had hitler won the war, it'd be Roosevelt and Churchill who everyone referred to as a crazy bastard.

Who knows, maybe in 500 years america will be remembered in much the same way Germany, Italy, And Japan are now

[mysecondstar]

At 3/5/03 07:48 PM, Grinwald wrote: Not quite... we have Iraq and North Korea. Who supports Iraq? Just a bunch of student protestors. Who supports Kim Jong-il? Well, let's just say he's pretty light on friends. For a world war, there needs to be an enemy that can't be easily removed. Like, say, World War II, where Japan, Germany, Italy, and Spain (all major world powers at the time) allied against everyone else. I think that the US alone could handle North Korea and Iraq, so it should be even easier with all the UN support we have (and yes, we do have lots of UN support, just not necessarily in the security council)

i'm not too worried about iraq. i'm a little more anxious about north korea. but there is something else involved as well.

the problem i see is that we'd be fighting two wars on two different fronts. iraq won't have worldwide ramifications on its own. however, north korea will drag in China just by principle alone. it happened in the Korean War, you can bet your knicks tickets they'll do it again. once China joins the fray, people WILL notice. people will join bandwagons faster than you can say, "bob's you're uncle".

also, an even more delicate situation with iraq will ensue because Osama bin Laden (alive or not) has ordered all cells to attack if the US attacked iraq. then we have terrorists attacking the US and its allies. try not calling that a world war. we have huge China, and invisible terrorists lurking about.

granted all these scenarios are only hypothetical, yet they have a high probability of occuring.

also, Spain is hardly something you'd call a superpower by any respects. also it turned neutral pretty fast.

[SithLaird]

At 3/5/03 09:27 PM, thenark wrote: North Korea Is Communist, Can You Tell Me What Other asian country is communist?

You guesed it, the peoples republic of china, and whether they like N, Korea or not, they would still wade into the frey if america attacked N. Korea, and China has the largest army in the world. And if world war two taught us anything, its that you cant kill a communist,look at stalingrad, a handful of poorly trained half starved soldiers held their city until the nazi's were forced to retreat.

S)This is not how the commies fell in Russia, anyway. Regan did that.

His Russian canpaign is quite possibly the reason that the Nazi's lost the war.

S) Well yer part right here. The Nazi's lost for a LOT of reasons, and saying only one of them is primary is wrong. They wouldn't have failed if things didn't go the way they did, let's just say that.

And the N. Koreans and Chinese would be fighting on their own soil, for their own familys and their very lives, all the invaders would be fighting for would be because their leader said jump and their asking how high?

S) I think they'd fight because the Communist governmnets would WANT them to fight, not because they want to repel invaders. As far as I can figure out, everyone in N. Korea and China would relax if all of the Commie politicians were killed off without an invasion. IE: A hitman comes in, and leaves with a bag of disembodied heads. Puts the heads on a pike and says : "This is what happens to Commies!" Of course, it's just a theory.

Also, N. Korea has no oil, so Bush has no reason to bother them

S)Nuke power. If I was a world leader, I'd want to take away his weapons too. Be like: "If'n yeh cannae play nice, yeh cannae play at all, Laddie."

[JMHX]

At 3/6/03 12:07 AM, thenark wrote: Yes, but think, history is written by the victors, Had hitler won the war, it'd be Roosevelt and Churchill who everyone referred to as a crazy bastard.

Who knows, maybe in 500 years america will be remembered in much the same way Germany, Italy, And Japan are now

Hm...I'm surprised you haven't been flamed for this yet. Sadly, I have to agree. History has a convenient way of changing the opposing army into the devil and the allied forces into the angels descending to rid the world of the cancers.

[InSaNeFooL]

At 3/6/03 12:07 AM, thenark wrote: Yes, but think, history is written by the victors, Had hitler won the war, it'd be Roosevelt and Churchill who everyone referred to as a crazy bastard.

perhaps, but hitler was actually mentally unstable. reading mein kiemf (sic..you know, my story by hitler), many accounts from people who knew and loved him, and many historical accounts, from high budget propaganda to independent german, it's quite obvious that he lived in a seperate plan of existence than most people, at least in mind.

Who knows, maybe in 500 years america will be remembered in much the same way Germany, Italy, And Japan are now

Well Bush is a crackpot whitetrash joke of a president, so I'd say the possibilty of 50 years from now hearing about dictator bush is a possibility

[JMHX]

At 3/6/03 09:50 AM, InSaNeFooL wrote:

At 3/6/03 12:07 AM, thenark wrote:

perhaps, but hitler was actually mentally unstable. reading mein kiemf (sic..you know, my story by hitler)

Mein Kampf. My Struggle.

many accounts from people who knew and loved him, and many historical accounts, from high budget propaganda to independent german, it's quite obvious that he lived in a seperate plan of existence than most people, at least in mind.

Hitler was unstable, yes, but he only went completely off his rocker during the end of the war, when the Russians were holding ground and the Americans were moving into the country in swarms. Reportedly (from The Rise and Fall of Adolf Hitler) Hitler's hair went gray and he began to suffer nervous breakdowns very quickly after news of the Americans and Russians breaking through to Germany.

[InSaNeFooL]

I would love to get further into this but right now I'm so tired I can't seem to access much of my memory from over a year ago, which I know it's been a good 3+ since I was heavily into reading up on hitler.

Since my brain ain't werkin right, b3tt3r h34d ov3r to teh 63n3r41 f0rum... =)

o wait, my brain was never really working 'correctly' in the first place. eh.

me - 'ahh the days when it was only a small collection of us l337 h4x0rs...wait no, most never ever really useD much more than 733t.."