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I have one underneath the glove.

At 8/16/06 01:50 PM, Erkie wrote: I'm getting sick of LJ and his bullshit.

Wrong topic - I offered to be the focus of anger over in Who are the worst?.

If you want to hate me, you'll have to do it over there.

I didn't bring up time travel - I'm only offering my theory that might explain why it's not possible.

Besides - what the hell else are we supposed to discuss in this topic?

Why are we here? What does it all mean? If a tree falls and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise? Have I really already been chosen to recieve ten million dollars in the Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes?

At 8/16/06 02:41 PM, LJCoffee wrote:
Wrong topic - I offered to be the focus of anger over in Who are the worst?.

If you want to hate me, you'll have to do it over there.

Oh LJ, you know you can be anywhere for me to hate you : D

Considering time travels the issue being discussed, could be said to be speculation, much as alternate realities are an issue of speculation.

Therefore both have equal standing, so time travel could exist, tho you're probably right and it doesnt and wont, going by your speak :P

I dont reckon time travels achieveable through scientific discovery,

but when you croak and leave this mortal plane, since you might be separated from our world of 3 dimensions, are you also separated from time too.

(clearly presuming we have a soul that'll continue after we die)

So, if separated from what binds you to the reality of cause followed by effect, could you infact, go backwards, or forward at a faster rate?

oh ya?

well i dont NEED a time machine - im a time god and I can go to whatever time i want!

and if you complain - i'll go to the time you were born and make sure your parents never meet - thus making sure you are never BORN!

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA..

Anyone here read jasper fforde?

At 8/16/06 11:17 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Anyone here read jasper fforde?

Did you just say, "Read"? READ? I don't do that kind of thing.....

Here's a question for you to think about... it's been on my mind for a couple days now.

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First off, assume that one has available an extremely powerful supercomputer. When I say extremely, I mean beyond what you could even imagine.

Then this computer is given a task:
Combine every single possible combination (including the absolute slightest variation) of instruments, pitch, rhythm, lyrics, playing style, etc. to create an amazingly huge number of songs. With enough time and a powerful enough computer, every song that could ever be created by a human will be created by this computer.
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Now I ask you two questions:

1-Do you believe this is possible?
And
2-How would this affect:
-Artists?
-Listeners?
-Mankind in general?

At 8/16/06 11:31 PM, GoreBastard wrote:

At 8/16/06 11:17 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Anyone here read jasper fforde?

Did you just say, "Read"? READ? I don't do that kind of thing.....

No one does anymore.

At 8/17/06 03:05 AM, x_kinetiK_x wrote: Here's a question for you to think about... it's been on my mind for a couple days now.

------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
------------------
First off, assume that one has available an extremely powerful supercomputer. When I say extremely, I mean beyond what you could even imagine.

Then this computer is given a task:
Combine every single possible combination (including the absolute slightest variation) of instruments, pitch, rhythm, lyrics, playing style, etc. to create an amazingly huge number of songs. With enough time and a powerful enough computer, every song that could ever be created by a human will be created by this computer.
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Now I ask you two questions:

1-Do you believe this is possible?

Only if computers can be taught the concept of infinite creativity.

Theres computers that make abstract art already, and probably somewhere in the music industry theres a machine that creates insta-hit boyband songs, the basic melodies at least.

Also, aphex twin ALLEDGEDLY wrote some software for himself that auto generates melody lines using what he has on his pc, so this is even more evidence of the possibilities if true. Thing is aphex admitted to lying in interviews :S but is that true :P

And
2-How would this affect:
-Artists?

Clearly composers would be well out of a job if everything could be created by an uber copmuter. Performance wise tho it'd create more material for people to play than is even slightly imaginable.

-Listeners?

Probably not at all, no change to them.

-Mankind in general?

The economy would shift, artists would probably get even less money. If this is in the future live performers could possibly make money off rich people who want to hear "period" music done in the traditional fashion.

At 8/16/06 11:31 PM, GoreBastard wrote:

At 8/16/06 11:17 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Anyone here read jasper fforde?

Did you just say, "Read"? READ? I don't do that kind of thing.....

Yeah well i got bored of life, and someone said this book would make your head explode, so i gave it a go.

YES GORE, I MEANT YOUR HEAD, AND NOT MINE, YOU BASTARD.

bwa ha hahah

Ok, lets start out a new argument.

Wheres my candy?!

At 8/17/06 07:01 AM, SpamWarrior wrote: Only if computers can be taught the concept of infinite creativity.

There is no creativity involved in this process. Every note, rhythm, and sound that can ever possibly be created -will- be created. Think of it this way:

Let's use the example of a simple melody, 4 notes long.
The computer starts with this:
AAAA
And repeatedly changes notes until every possible melody is created. Thus:
AAAA#
AAAB
AAAC...
...GGGF
GGGF#
GGGG
Then the timing for each of these notes will be repeatedly changed, until every possible rhythm has been created.
This melody and rhythm will be played by any noise imaginable, from a piano to a synth to some strange animal noise.
If vocals are used, every sound that could be made by the human vocal chords will be combined using the same method. Whether male or female, screaming or humming, chanting or lyrics (which will also be chosen through this method), it will be used.

the thing is noone would be assed to go thru the billions upon billions of failures just to get to the good songs it outputs..

heres a better idea...a computer u put on your head where whatever u think it outputs

well, musically this computer thing your on about, it could compose certain rhythmns, but think about it. what makes songs stand out? Human emotion, the way music is playe and having that human feel to it, a computer has to think logically, it can't think outside of the box, regardless of how powerful it is, it'd have to be programmed in such a way that it can construct orchestration, understand crsendo and diminuendo. the right melody lines, the right chord schemes. i do get what you mean that it cud make everything, but would it also make music thats lasts for years or seconds? again it comes down to the fact it needs rules to apply, you can't just buld a computer and go make a me a hit record.

and on the other issue of time travel.

theoretically time travel is achieveable, and to some extent physically i can demonstrate, it's not actual time travel, but more time delay or increase which ever way you look at it.

In space, we weigh less, we have zero gravity and a slower orbit, metabolism, heart beat, everything moves slower. Astronauts have come back from space, and aged slower than people who have staye on earth, not significantly as they aint able to stay up there for 10 yrs or so to see major effects but there is an age difference. So time, and time travel are theoretically achievable trhough the use of speed, excessive un imaginable speed. but how would you gain that speed without kill anyone or yourelf in the process?

then you can't start talking about anti-matter, or dark matter, whicever term. which is basically everything and nothing at the same time. in scientifc study it's been tried to harness, tho only for milliseconds, but the energy ratio is phenomanol, now how much energy would you need to make time travel achievable or the dleyaing of time or speeding up on earth? a lot of questions i know and few answers, i hope it made some sense.

GOREBASTARD WINS AT THIS THREAD.

aparently time travel can be acheived by containing the energy from a black hole - which also contains lots of anti-matter I suppose..

At 8/17/06 09:48 PM, Chronamut wrote: aparently time travel can be acheived by containing the energy from a black hole - which also contains lots of anti-matter I suppose..

Naaah - only the percieved time distortion due to the event horizon - you know, if you were able to actually observe a black hole, you could never see anything "enter" one because of the incremental decrease of the speed at which light would be reflected/emitted that proportionate to the distance from the EH (the point at which not even light can escape the gravitational pull of the mass)

- I just stopped for a second and re-read that and I thought "why the fuck am I bothering to get into all of that with this crowd...

anyhow - there is some evidence to suggest that temporal distortion occurs under certain circumstances but a distortion is not travel. The unspoken implications of "travel" are that it is a determined and deliberate event or occurence that results in moving from one state to another and that it is possible in both directions.

Back to the "black hole" for a second - obtaining energy from a BH would be... difficult if even possible. They (probably) emit particles and there has been some debate over this but one theory is that matter/anti-matter is constantly occuring and cancelling each other out - it's been speculated that when this happens AT the event horizon with one particle on one side (for lack of a proper term) and one on the other, that a sort of "free-radical" is created eg: anti-matter that didn't get cancelled out... I think this may also be a bit of bullshit because if anti-matter escaped the EH then it would just collide with the closest available matter ... assuming that any of it is even close to the truth...

Fuck, I don't know - and besides - Gorebastard already won anyway....

Damn you great gorebastard. You great winner you. How would you like your tribute?

Money
Beer

or raw meat.

And to LJ, yes, you're thinking is probably correct, assuming that its based on science that is entirely correct. But, just to show sciene is not infallible.

http://www.newscient..ns?id=mg18524911.600

ljcoffee wrote: a bunch of smart stuff

spam wrote a bunch of words

GAAH TOO MANY WORDS!

At 8/18/06 05:54 AM, SpamWarrior wrote: And to LJ, yes, you're thinking is probably correct, assuming that its based on science that is entirely correct. But, just to show sciene is not infallible.

Oh - no doubt - I'm not some hard-core "everything science!" people - not at all really but flawed as it may be, our sciences are really all we have to go on for now...

Yes, I do see the problems with that , so I'll go ahead and say it now before some cheeky little bastard does:

"But scientist used to think that the world was flat... but scientists used to think that everything revolved around the earth... but scientist used to think...used to think...used to think..."

I know it's flawed... I know that in 10 or 50 or 100 years we'll collectively make discoveries that will change the way we see things.

For now though, I have to work with the flawed science and logic that we've come up with to date.

...until I think up something better...

So, by showin that science is flawed, based just on the concept that its based on knowledge, and seeks knowledge.

One day it could be infallible once we've got more understanding, but anyway... it is all we've got that can provide repeatable, viewable facts.

So, time travel might be possible then eh LJ :P

Tho its clearly not a foregone conclusion, either way, it is speculation. :D

and thus we are back to square one - that was a happy little circle we trod wasnt it :P

At 8/18/06 11:12 AM, SpamWarrior wrote: One day it could be infallible once we've got more understanding, but anyway... it is all we've got that can provide repeatable, viewable facts.

So, time travel might be possible then eh LJ :P

No - My original theory still stands - if something changes in a thousand or a million years that changes the way that we see science, and that change allows for time travel to be possible - then we would still see the cascade regardless of our current beliefs...

It's water tight regardless ... Heheh :D - You can't catch me in a logic trap quite that easily...

But I like the fact that you're trying!

AND NOW, AT THE ARENA, ITS LOGIC, VERSUS LOGIC

So if science changes, then we would see the cascade?

but since this is all extreme speculation anyway, it can be taken to the extreme.

What if theres people going back in time to stop the people from trying to take over the world, with the aim of keeping time travel a secret until civilisation reaches the point where it is mature enough to use it in a reasonable fashion?

like say, watching the big bang? I'm not saying this is possible, but will THEY know that :D

At 8/18/06 05:54 AM, SpamWarrior wrote: Damn you great gorebastard. You great winner you. How would you like your tribute?

Money
Beer

or raw meat.

Actually, you got any half eaten crab sticks? I'll have those if possible...
See, I even used the question mark picture thing. That means I'm serious!!!

At 8/18/06 12:35 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: So if science changes, then we would see the cascade?

Yes, but only if it were possible that it would result in time travel - which it cannot... At least not in our percieved existence...Let's assume for a moment that time travel IS or WILL BE possible - but the catch is that you blink out of existence here and end up in some parallel universe... The it still doesn't exist in a state that can be percieved or quantified here... So effectively, for us, time travel cannot ever exist.

but since this is all extreme speculation anyway, it can be taken to the extreme.

Sure! - why not - it's always fun to eventually start arguing absurdities. I'm absurd anyway so I should fit right into that discussion..

What if theres people going back in time to stop the people from trying to take over the world, with the aim of keeping time travel a secret until civilisation reaches the point where it is mature enough to use it in a reasonable fashion?

Then at the point where we are mature enough, we'd send temporal emmisaries back in time even further to bring knowledge understanding and water-based lubricants to the masses...

I still think it would be a mess...

like say, watching the big bang? I'm not saying this is possible, but will THEY know that :D

Maybe they would have inadvertantly caused it... paradox... :D

It's like repeatedly halving a number trying to reach zero - there's just no end to it...

At 8/18/06 01:19 PM, LJCoffee wrote:

At 8/18/06 12:35 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: So if science changes, then we would see the cascade?

Yes, but only if it were possible that it would result in time travel - which it cannot... At least not in our percieved existence...Let's assume for a moment that time travel IS or WILL BE possible - but the catch is that you blink out of existence here and end up in some parallel universe... The it still doesn't exist in a state that can be percieved or quantified here... So effectively, for us, time travel cannot ever exist.

Only if you're following your assumed point that you end up in a parallel universe, does that make sense!

but since this is all extreme speculation anyway, it can be taken to the extreme.

Sure! - why not - it's always fun to eventually start arguing absurdities. I'm absurd anyway so I should fit right into that discussion..

What if theres people going back in time to stop the people from trying to take over the world, with the aim of keeping time travel a secret until civilisation reaches the point where it is mature enough to use it in a reasonable fashion?

Then at the point where we are mature enough, we'd send temporal emmisaries back in time even further to bring knowledge understanding and water-based lubricants to the masses...

What if its just a matter of evolution, that the race must physically advance to a certain point tho?

I still think it would be a mess...

like say, watching the big bang? I'm not saying this is possible, but will THEY know that :D

Maybe they would have inadvertantly caused it... paradox... :D

maybe, but just cos something is a paradox, doesnt mean its not true. Unless its just not true. :)

It's like repeatedly halving a number trying to reach zero - there's just no end to it...

True that.

A lorry is trying to run spamwarrior over, he is high on a cocktail of drugs, and lobster. He can run 20 miles per hour. The lorry is going 40 miles per hour.

Therefore for every X distance, the lorry travels 2X.

X SHOULD in sense be a constant, but since the distance between them is constantly getting halfed, spamwarrior should be safe from the lorry.

End result of experiment : spamwarrior is crushed under the truck.

Why did this happen?

I know theres a good quality debunking of this, but i cant remember all the words and i just dont care.

At 8/18/06 01:15 PM, GoreBastard wrote:

Actually, you got any half eaten crab sticks? I'll have those if possible...
See, I even used the question mark picture thing. That means I'm serious!!!

Nah sorry mate but i've got crabs, is that any use?

At 8/18/06 02:14 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Only if you're following your assumed point that you end up in a parallel universe, does that make sense!

nope - parallel universes and alternate realities can't

What if its just a matter of evolution, that the race must physically advance to a certain point tho?

Still the same boat - any type of advancement, scientific, evolutionary or otherwise that would ultimately lead to time travel all still ends up with the same problem of entities going back in time and introducing ideas or technology before they are invented - all of it would result in the cascade...

A lorry is trying to run spamwarrior over... spamwarrior should be safe from the lorry.

That happened to me this morning but I broke out the calculator to compute the distances and I remained safe...

Didn't Gorebastard already win this??