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At 9/14/06 12:23 PM, Flash007 wrote: Give me some data.

Look at the graph below.

Where did the temp decrease? Worldwide or locally?
World wide.

Never the same by how much? Are we talking fractions of degrees,

Never the same at all, usually by .1 or .2 degrees.

Not to mention the graphs that go back more than 300 years arent exactly accurate.

I'd like to point out that in the first link Flash007 provided, the Vostok temperature data on the "400K" scale shows a very distinct natural series of large temperature peaks followed by deep temperature dips (Ice Ages). We just happen to be on one of those temperature spikes.

The problem with Global Warming isn't so much proving that some warming is occurring, it's proving that this warming is a threat and caused solely by humans. Neither of those two things has been conclusively proven, and hence the major doubt about Global Warming.

At 9/15/06 12:47 AM, Grammer wrote: Gravity is a myth. We're actually held down to the earth by the love of baby Jesus.

You guys didn't know this stuff? Jeez.

Yeah...you're an idiot.

You're one of those morons that think: "the earth is warming, so that must mean EVERYTHING that people claim about global warming is true , i.e. humans are causing it and it will destroy the earth VERY SOON! Everyone BE AFRAID and vote DEMOCRAT IF YOU WANT TO LIVE!!!!! OOOOOOOHOOOOHHHOHOH"

At 9/15/06 12:54 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Yeah...you're an idiot.

Why, because he holds an opinion that differs from yours?

You're one of those morons that think: "the earth is warming, so that must mean EVERYTHING that people claim about global warming is true , i.e. humans are causing it and it will destroy the earth VERY SOON! Everyone BE AFRAID and vote DEMOCRAT IF YOU WANT TO LIVE!!!!! OOOOOOOHOOOOHHHOHOH"

Hmm, i think YOU'RE the idiot.

At 9/15/06 12:57 AM, o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l wrote:

At 9/15/06 12:54 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: Yeah...you're an idiot.

Why, because he holds an opinion that differs from yours?

No because he made an ignorant comment using a religious topic that is entirely unrelated.

You're one of those morons that think: "the earth is warming, so that must mean EVERYTHING that people claim about global warming is true , i.e. humans are causing it and it will destroy the earth VERY SOON! Everyone BE AFRAID and vote DEMOCRAT IF YOU WANT TO LIVE!!!!! OOOOOOOHOOOOHHHOHOH"

Hmm, i think YOU'RE the idiot.

I'm sure you think alot of things. But from what I've seen you're often wrong, nay, always wrong.

At 9/15/06 12:47 AM, Grammer wrote: Gravity is a myth.

"Myth" is a strong word, too strong perhaps, so let's just say that gravity is a "theory in crisis"

At 9/15/06 12:58 AM, Grammer wrote:

that think: "the earth is warming, so that must mean EVERYTHING that people claim about global warming is true , i.e. humans are causing it and it will destroy the earth VERY SOON! Everyone BE AFRAID and vote DEMOCRAT IF YOU WANT TO LIVE!!!!! OOOOOOOHOOOOHHHOHOH"

Or I believe in global warming because the vast majority of the scientific community believes in it, and it just makes sense.

Your assumptions are, however, duly noted.

You still just don't get it do you?

Almost everyone BELIEVES in global warming, i'd say every scientist in a related field BELIEVES the earth is warming. But most scientists believe that the Earth is warming NATURALLY, as it has MANY times in the past. Do you understand that?

The FACT is that the Earth has gone through periods of warming before humans even had the capability to produce pollution, even before humans EXISTED. Do you understand that?

This doesn't mean that since it is taking place, that everything you hear about global warming is true. Scientists can prove that Global Warming is TAKING PLACE, but nobody has proven the claim that the global warming on Earth is caused by human activity.

Nobody has proven, or can prove that if humans reduce pollution, global warming will slow down or reverse. Therefore it is stupid to suggests that just because global warming is happening, everything that Al Gore claims about it must be true.

I myself believe in global warming. I don't believe that is caused by our activity as humans. And I don't believe that reducing pollution in the US, thereby damaging the US economy is worth the results of the slowing or stopping of global warming, when there is no proof that it will result in that.

Why assume that humans are to blame for global warming, when before we as humans even existed the earth went through equally drastic shifts in temperature MANY times in the past?

Are you so dumb that you can't see the distinction? Let me make it clear for you. There are 3 predominant ways to see global warming.

1. Global warming isn't taking place at all. The average temperature of the Earth is not warming significantly to assume the earth is changing.

Nobody really believes this. President Bush doesn't believe this, Republicans don't believe this. I don't believe this.

2. a) Global warming is taking place. B) It is taking place naturally as it has many times in the past. Our activity is not to blame, but natural behavior of the earth is the cause. Changing habits will not slow or stop global warming to any significant or purposeful degree.

This is what most scientists believe. This is what the educated and politically unbiased person will believe. This is what I myself believe according to what I have been taught and what has been proven to me. This is a complete rational stance that is not motivated by politics but is the truth as we as humans KNOW it so far, there are no assumptions or random guesses in this view.

3. A) Global warming is taking place. B) Global warming is caused by human activity like pollution and deforestation. C) If we stop these activities, global warming will stop. D) Therefore, since the US is the leader of pollution, the US is mostly to blame. E) The US and other countries need to produce less pollution to prevent Global Warming, regardless of how much the US will suffer economically from it while CHina and India will not be told to reduce pollution and will prosper economically F) If the US doesn't reduce emissions, the world will be irrepairably damaged and it will be the fault of the US. There is absolutely no way that this is the result of natural earth behavior, regardless of what the facts suggest.

These are the views of the politically motivated, and the view held by people who are misinformed or just uneducated. This is based on SOME truth, but the truth is distorted and added to in order to achieve political goals.

It is a classical example of propaganda. They make so much bogus claims and package them together in a system of beliefs that revolves around one single truth, while everything they add is untrue, or unproven. Therefore someone who disagrees with them will be considered to be dumb or ignorant and unwillingly to face reality, when actually its the other way around.

Now here is the bottom line: "Global Warming" doesn't automatically mean the whole package of beliefs that the agenda-driven advocates suggest. Therefore when you hear from scientists that "Global Warming is happening" this doesn't that the whole package of claims made by the Global Warming gurus are true.

But democrats/ liberals and just plain stupid people use this common misconception to their advantage, they intentionally mislead people for this political purpose.

Do you see the distinction now?

At 9/15/06 12:47 AM, Grammer wrote: Gravity is a myth. We're actually held down to the earth by the love of baby Jesus.

U KNOW THE SECRET TOO?Oh man THIS is outta HAND! NOW TWO people know that JUSES holds EVERY thing down! OH MAN WERE SCREWD! The big guy upstaigs is gonna KILL ME WHEN HE FINDS OUT!!!!Awwww Shucks!

At 9/15/06 02:51 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 9/15/06 12:58 AM, Grammer wrote:

But democrats/ liberals and just plain stupid people use this common misconception to their advantage, they intentionally mislead people for this political purpose.

And Republicans dont? Republicans r the dirt under ur nails, the skid marks in ur undies, the salmenilla in the eggs! Repubs are evil in every way shape and form, even theyr masscot is fukin evil. All republicans like to hunt for fun, not food, like to eat fast food, like to denye poor people prooper help, like to keep the minimun wage at a MINIMUM, while they have steadly increased they'r pay check's by 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS over the last 8 years! Itz Despicable! These people who call them selfs MEN because they embrace all the MAN sterio types. All Gun toatin Booze swiggin Adulturating peices of legisltaive SHIT! I hope alll Republicans have an elephant sit on theyr big bloated heads and the elephant take's a fat one! I hope all Republicans get they wives taken from them, get theyre children taken from them and are forced to kill them with a jagged peice of glass. And if they dont complye then it's genetal mutiialtion for all! Fuck the scum of the earth, fuck the slim ball politican, fuck the cheater, fuck the traitor of the people, fuck Republicans. Liberals will save us from the grasp of the devil, our president, who claims to b guided b visions and words from GOD!!?!?!WAT GOD TEACHES VIOLENCE? That indian god, and Aries but thats about IT! Liberals will never betray ur trust, they will never do it for them selfs, all ways for the people!!! And if u oppose liberals then ur a homophobe, a rednek, have 9th grade education, Want's To Fail in life, doesnt care about anyone but him self and his/her assests. Republicans r always angry and trying to shut out the democratic voice, thets w dems come off as pansys, cause Republicans r fuckin BULLYS! Fuck ur republican strongarm tactics!

At 9/15/06 03:39 AM, Rottrevore wrote:

At 9/15/06 02:51 AM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 9/15/06 12:58 AM, Grammer wrote:

But democrats/ liberals and just plain stupid people use this common misconception to their advantage, they intentionally mislead people for this political purpose.

And Republicans dont? Republicans r the dirt under ur nails, the skid marks in ur undies, the salmenilla in the eggs! Repubs are evil in every way shape and form, even theyr masscot is fukin evil. All republicans like to hunt for fun, not food, like to eat fast food, like to denye poor people prooper help, like to keep the minimun wage at a MINIMUM, while they have steadly increased they'r pay check's by 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS over the last 8 years! Itz Despicable! These people who call them selfs MEN because they embrace all the MAN sterio types. All Gun toatin Booze swiggin Adulturating peices of legisltaive SHIT! I hope alll Republicans have an elephant sit on theyr big bloated heads and the elephant take's a fat one! I hope all Republicans get they wives taken from them, get theyre children taken from them and are forced to kill them with a jagged peice of glass. And if they dont complye then it's genetal mutiialtion for all! Fuck the scum of the earth, fuck the slim ball politican, fuck the cheater, fuck the traitor of the people, fuck Republicans. Liberals will save us from the grasp of the devil, our president, who claims to b guided b visions and words from GOD!!?!?!WAT GOD TEACHES VIOLENCE? That indian god, and Aries but thats about IT! Liberals will never betray ur trust, they will never do it for them selfs, all ways for the people!!! And if u oppose liberals then ur a homophobe, a rednek, have 9th grade education, Want's To Fail in life, doesnt care about anyone but him self and his/her assests. Republicans r always angry and trying to shut out the democratic voice, thets w dems come off as pansys, cause Republicans r fuckin BULLYS! Fuck ur republican strongarm tactics!

I don't know if you meant that to be funny or not, but I laughed hysterically the whole way through:

I especially liked this part: "Liberals will save us from the grasp of the devil, our president, who claims to b guided b visions and words from GOD!!?!?!WAT GOD TEACHES VIOLENCE? That indian god, and Aries but thats about IT!"

Now if you were actually serious, then I suggest you seek professional mental therapy.

At 8/9/06 06:34 AM, angelo-ryan wrote: They have no proof and for me it's illogical, so I agree it's a load of ****

Your brain is a load of **** too

As said SO MANY TIMES ABOVE Global warming is GLOBAL WARMING! The world's average temperature is RISING, there is so much dammn proof in front of your blind ass face

1. Raising Water levels
leading to
2. Stronger Typhoons, hurricanes etc (katrina)

3. more heat waves
4. Drought

Since the mid 19th century, the world has gradually began to raise in average temperature, while before that, the world was gradually cooling ( While During it, NY harbor froze over, Grape vines died, birds died in the sky, Napoleon did terrible in Russia becuase of the massive winter)

We got another 100+ Years of this

At 9/13/06 11:23 AM, Flash007 wrote:

At 9/13/06 01:03 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: LISTEN YOU BUNCH OF FOOLS:

Also there is NO proof that humans are the cause of Global Warming. If there were no humans on the Earth right now, the world would still be getting warmer naturally.

Agreed and disagree, there is a NATURAL GLOBAL WARMING, but we are CONTRIBUTIG with Co2 emmissions and CFC's

Possibly, but would it be as much as quickly? And as for "NO proof" what about the CO2 level versus average temperate graph I put up? So it's just a strange concidence that as CO2 levels go up so does temp?

Co2 is a Greenhouse Gas, less trees cuz we cut em down = more co2 ( ironically) cars = more co2 = a lot of green house gases

The Earth has never maintained a constant average temperature for more than 20 years or so.

Incorrect, Earth has had a massive Global cooling phase beginning in the late 1400's and ending in the mid 1800's with a 3-4 degree change, causing massively "impossible" events ( birds fall out of the sky dead, soldiers in napoleon's army cut meat off horses and horses dont feel or lose blood because its so cold)

Again, show me facts. And what do you define as constant average temp? The same temp to a degree, .1 degrees, what?

If you want to do something about Global Warming, good. But the rest of the sane people in the US have no desire to damage the US economy and cater to the will of psychotic LIBERAL MORONS just to reduce pollution, when THERE IS NO PROOF that doing so will stop or slow Global Warming!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you don't realize that part of the ideas on how to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is how to make it economically viable. California recently created a law where it fines people for producing too much, however, those who produce less than that limit can sell their "right to pollute" to others, thus making money. So, you have a economic advantage to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Then, as time goes on and technology gets better, the limit will become stricter, and the people who are still producing more will have to buy more "right to pollute" from other people, and the limits will get stricter, until it becomes more expensive to keep buying than to clean up.

Wake up you fools, quit believing all the propaganda and nonsense that you hear.

Quit believing the propanganda and nonsense I hear? K, I'll start with yours.

Everyone realises that Global Warming is a complete Red Herring, right? Two simple questions to ask yourself when confronted by laws meant to stop global warming.

Does pollution have a beneficial effect on the environment?

Do finite resources (such as oil) run out?

The answers are quite obvious and justify pretty much every bit of legislation rallied for by people concerned about global warming.

The Sun's Hot...

At 9/15/06 06:26 AM, Alexi101 wrote: As said SO MANY TIMES ABOVE Global warming is GLOBAL WARMING! The world's average temperature is RISING, there is so much dammn proof in front of your blind ass face

Ok

1. Raising Water levels
leading to
2. Stronger Typhoons, hurricanes etc (katrina)

actually, after this one, your next predictions dont follow the pattern
3. Larger water surface area due to melting of the ice caps
4. More evaporation of water
5. Less sunlight gets through because of water in atmospere (no the water doesnt dissapear.)
6. Ice age part 2

3. more heat waves
4. Drought

Since the mid 19th century, the world has gradually began to raise in average temperature, while before that, the world was gradually cooling ( While During it, NY harbor froze over, Grape vines died, birds died in the sky, Napoleon did terrible in Russia becuase of the massive winter)

Russia has always had bad winters. Napoleon is not the only person to invade russia. Granted it was one of the worst, but still.

We got another 100+ Years of this

The main aguement is that we are causing too much pollution leading up to global warming. Cows produce more greenhouse gasses than cars per day. Fire burning releases CO2. Farting produces methane, a greenhouse gas. Therefore: Save the earth! Eat a cow!

global warming is real but the tempature could drop within 3000 years because were still in the ice ages.were in a interglacial interval which is a warm period that lasts for 10000-15000 years weve been in one for 11000.

At 9/15/06 06:26 AM, Alexi101 wrote: Since the mid 19th century, the world has gradually began to raise in average temperature, while before that, the world was gradually cooling ( While During it, NY harbor froze over, Grape vines died, birds died in the sky, Napoleon did terrible in Russia becuase of the massive winter)

What you failed to mention is that the abnormally cold period from circa 1000 AD to circa 1800 AD has been titled the "Little Ice Age." (You can search with that keyword) It is an aberration of temperature. The peak temperatures around 1000 AD (just before it began) were only about 0.2 to 0.3 degrees Celcius cooler than the modern average global temperature. At around 1550 AD, the average global temperature was 1.3 to 1.4 degrees Celcius cooler than modern times.

If the Earth can change that much in temperature naturally, it's easily possible that this warming is natural as well. Pollution is always a concern, but it isn't worth destroying all of the First World nations because some dumbasses thought they were polluting too much (while the other 5 billion people in the world keep polluting unchecked).

Because knowing anything before our own time is impossible.

Burn the history books! They speak witch lies!

You really are a complete moron. Of course humans cause it. All the polution were pumping into the atmosphere keeping in the heat, melting ice caps etc is causing these problems.

But, ok. Carry on using your big gas guzzling 4x4 etc when in say 100's time the earth has nearly completly flooded and your desendants are , if they survived flooding, living on some mountain top living in small huts perhaps. We'll see who's right.

At 9/16/06 12:26 AM, Grammer wrote: Global warming is not natural

so im guessing you dont believe there has ever been an ice age in the past?
or did humans at the time cause the planet to warm up and get rid of the ice?

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Global warming is the most researched topic in the history of the world. The shear amount of scientific models, research, surveying, and ice core study that has been done seems to suggest that global warming exists.

You could even watch the movie march of the penguins which also talks a little about how ice melting is screwing up the penguins migration march during mating season. (I think it's in the bonus features on the DVD).

You can't expect unleashing a bunch of stored energy is not going to upset the ballance.

Here. It's not a dramatic shift of 50+ farenheit.

TO BAD its fucking impossible to read your god damn graph

I also feel I should mention that water vapor is one of the most powerful greenhouse gases.

I can list the order of potentcy for a few
It goes from weakest to strongest... Carbon Dioxide, Methane, Nitrous Oxide, Water Vapor.
There are others but those are the only ones I can remember the order of.

You might think that more water vapor will block out the sun and cool things down. This is true only to an extent. Condensed water will block out the sun (clouds). But water in steam or gas form is transparent and will not block out any sun. It will instead hold heat in. Water has a really high specific heat (a chemistry term for how much thermal energy a substance can hold before changing a physical state). This high specific heat allows it to hold a lot more heat energy then other substances like a parking lot.

What you don't want is to start a positive feed back loop.

Awesome to the max times 9.

At 9/17/06 01:11 AM, Darth-Tom wrote: this is pointless quit bickering I live in Minnesota godamnt and its always cold

Calling it global warming is really a bad idea. What global warming really means is climate change

Some places might get colder while others warmer. Maybe it will just mean more severe weather on a whole, more huricanes, heatwaves, severe and erratic weather.
The problem is that there are too many variables at this time to say exactly what will happen.

However scientists have already proved that climate change is happening. Like for real serious no bullshit it's happening. The question is how much are human activities affecting it or speeding it up. I think that some of the change might be natural while the other half is from humans.

Unleashing all that carbon dioxide and water vapor is altering the gas concentration ratio of our atmosphere so that it is more likely to trap in heat. CO2 is a greenhouse gas which you all know.

And what will happen if the ice caps melt?
For sure the sea level will rise if land ice melts. But will it fuck up the ocean conveyor and cool things down? That is more up to opinion.

Some people say that the decreased ocean salinity will cool things down and slow down the heat transfer of the ocean currents.
Others say that the lack of white ice on the ocean will expose more dark surface area. The ocean will absorb more of the suns energy and warm up.

I personally have no idea which of those will happen if not something else.

Not to fill you with too many technical details but there is also this thing called global dimming that is believed to be canceling out the effects of global warming to an extent.

Global dimming is caused when particles of unburned fuel (soot) get into the atmosphere. Tiny droplets of water condense on the soot particles. This makes them shiny and they reflect sunlight back into outer space that would normally reach the surface. Global dimming is also real and experiments have been done in Israel and California to show that the overal amount of light reaching the surface has decreased over the years.

Recently cars have been burning there fuel much more cleanly and efficiently, this means less soot gets into the atmosphere and therefore less global dimming. So in a sense by burning fuel more cleanly we are removing the variable that has been canceling out global warming for so many years.

I know that is alot to digest for some of you and I don't mean to get to technical but I'm a total nerd about this climate change stuff and have done a lot of research on it over the years.

At 9/15/06 02:51 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: I myself believe in global warming. I don't believe that is caused by our activity as humans. And I don't believe that reducing pollution in the US, thereby damaging the US economy is worth the results of the slowing or stopping of global warming, when there is no proof that it will result in that.

Why do people assume that you just can't make money by reducing pollution? There are people out there who have buildings that waste so little energy that with a few solar panels the energy meter runs backward, and the electric company pays them for the extra power they produce. Along with my mention before of California's new law, with allows you to make money be selling your right to pollute to other people if you are producing less greenhouse gas. There are ways to reduce pollution and not hurt the economy!

Yes and explain why "weather" is causing antartica to melt?

At 9/15/06 01:27 PM, Benovere wrote: The main aguement is that we are causing too much pollution leading up to global warming. Cows produce more greenhouse gasses than cars per day. Fire burning releases CO2. Farting produces methane, a greenhouse gas. Therefore: Save the earth! Eat a cow!

http://chemistry.bel../pages/molecule.html

Note the difference between Methane and CO2. Yes, Methane does absorb more and therefore heats the earth more. But Methane only lasts 12 year in the atmosphere on average, while CO2 lasts 10 times as long.

At 9/17/06 01:11 AM, Darth-Tom wrote: this is pointless quit bickering I live in Minnesota godamnt and its always cold

I live in Minnesota too, and maybe we're in different parts of the state, but the last couple of winters just sucked compaired to previous ones. Almost no snow, nothing that stayed around for any reasonable amount of time. Dammit, I went F*****G trick-or-treating in a blizzard when I was a kid! Gimmie those winters back!